Batteries Included: No War Required

[hodad66]

 

[indyflick]

Does that guy have gas?

 

[indyflick]

I see a battle royal shaping up over the next 5 to 10 years between the EV ecosystem (EV manufactures, battery manufactures, electric companies, EVSE manufactures, etc) with their allies the environmentalists versus big oil. Presently big oil is waging a guerrilla campaign. They copy/paste the same crap in comments sections of EV articles all over the Internet. They also lobby congress really hard. But you haven't seen anything yet. Once their profits begin to decline for three or four quarters and they see their century of good times fading, they are going attack like a cornered rat.

 

[Jimmydreams]

I see a battle royal shaping up over the next 5 to 10 years between the EV ecosystem (EV manufactures, battery manufactures, electric companies, EVSE manufactures, etc) with their allies the environmentalists versus big oil. Presently big oil is waging a guerrilla campaign. They copy/paste the same crap in comments sections of EV articles all over the Internet. They also lobby congress really hard. But you haven't seen anything yet. Once their profits begin to decline for three or four quarters and they see their century of good times fading, they are going attack like a cornered rat.

They can attack all they want. I think by then there will be enough real-time evidence in the form of blogs, word of mouth, etc., that isn't 'future looking' but rather 'this IS'. Real, positive gains won't be able to be FUD'ed into silence. Too many stories of "I've never run out of charge" should be the norm.

That kind of info will squash FUD every time.

 

[Yodrak]

Perhaps, but:
- without listing the relatively few areas of exception, on the whole electric companies and environmentalists are not allies.
- BP is not only big oil, it is also big in wind farm development and photovoltaic solar development.

I see a battle royal shaping up over the next 5 to 10 years between the EV ecosystem (EV manufactures, battery manufactures, electric companies, EVSE manufactures, etc) with their allies the environmentalists versus big oil. Presently big oil is waging a guerrilla campaign. They copy/paste the same crap in comments sections of EV articles all over the Internet. They also lobby congress really hard. But you haven't seen anything yet. Once their profits begin to decline for three or four quarters and they see their century of good times fading, they are going attack like a cornered rat.

 

[evnow]

I see a battle royal shaping up over the next 5 to 10 years between the EV ecosystem (EV manufactures, battery manufactures, electric companies, EVSE manufactures, etc) with their allies the environmentalists versus big oil. Presently big oil is waging a guerrilla campaign. They copy/paste the same crap in comments sections of EV articles all over the Internet. They also lobby congress really hard. But you haven't seen anything yet. Once their profits begin to decline for three or four quarters and they see their century of good times fading, they are going attack like a cornered rat.

I don't think big oil is concerned anymore, unlike during the earlier CA ZEV wars. I think this is primarily because of the realization on part of of Big Oil that
- Since peak oil will come sooner than EVs can replace ICE, they can sell all that they can produce at a good price
- China & India will gobble up any reduction in oil demand in the west

BTW, even the Big Oil companies are small compared to national oil compies. BP is even listed as an original supporter of Ecotality's EV Project proposal to DOE.

I think most of the EV opposition now comes from
- "free market" conservatives who think we can get plenty of oil that will last a 100 years if only "librals" allow oil companies to drill wherever they want
- sceptical greenies

 

[Yodrak]

I don't see overt opposition to EVs. I expect that there is likely some covert opposition in some limited area, and some opposition to subsidizing things that can't stand on their own, but primarily I think there limited support because the vast majority of people are unaware of how close the concept may be to 'breaking out' and becoming competitive on its own in the market place.

20-30 years ago there was big interest in things like solar and advanced batteries that went nowhere at the time because they weren't ready. Development slowed and went in other directions. With the passage of time advancements in electronics have simultaneously brought about advancements in solar and batteries to the point where those things are making another push. Are they ready this time, or will they die off again, for awhile, until further advancements are made?

I think this time we're very close. If the Leaf is successful it will begin a boom of further developments that will bring EVs into the mainstream of the automotive world.

 

[hodad66]

20-30 years ago there was big interest in things like solar and advanced batteries that went nowhere at the time because they weren't ready. Development slowed and went in other directions. With the passage of time advancements in electronics have simultaneously brought about advancements in solar and batteries to the point where those things are making another push. Are they ready this time, or will they die off again, for awhile, until further advancements are made?

Yep, development slowed because the Republicans took away funding.
Wonder why we find ourselves in the mess we are in? :shock:

 

[Yodrak]

Development began because of the creation of OPEC, and specifically the 1973 oil embargo it imposed following the Yom Kippur War. (I sat for hours, from late at night into the early morning, in some of those miles long gas lines.)

Development died when oil became available again, albeit at a significantly higher price, because even at the higher price the battery technologies of the day were nowhere close to being competitive in cost or applicability to mobile purposes. The money went instead into finding and developing new, non-OPEC, sources of oil. The higher prices created by OPEC made significant new developments in Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, and the North Sea among other places cost effective. The result was a period of oversuppy that pushed the price of oil further down which, although not back anywhere near the level of 'the good old days' of 20-25 cents per gallon, was low enough that there was no incentive to develop alternative energy sources.

The space program was perhaps the most significant driver in the development of electronics, which spilled over big time into consumer electronics, ultimately spurring the development of higher power density rechargeable batteries. Now it's a matter of increasing the scale so that the new battery technologies developed for electronics can be applied to other purposes such as transportation.

Yep, development slowed because the Republicans took away funding.
Wonder why we find ourselves in the mess we are in? :shock:

20-30 years ago there was big interest in things like solar and advanced batteries that went nowhere at the time because they weren't ready. Development slowed and went in other directions. With the passage of time advancements in electronics have simultaneously brought about advancements in solar and batteries to the point where those things are making another push. Are they ready this time, or will they die off again, for awhile, until further advancements are made?

 

[hodad66]

 

[mcochris]

Some bumper sticker ideas (not all mine):

This is what the end
of gasoline looks like

Support our troops
Buy an electric car

No US troops died
to fuel this car

Stop supporting OPEC
Buy an electric car

Say no to foreign oil
Buy an electric car

Want National Security?
Buy an electric car

Anyone know a good magnetic bumper sticker vendor? Buildasign.com wants $11 + $7 shipping!

 

[Randy3]

How about something like,

"You are welcome to use the gas that I'm saving!"

I think it's a positive statement...

 

[Smidge204]

Edit: Thought of one more!

 

[Nubo]

Sometimes you get more flies with Honey...

 

[CWO4Mann]

Careful. There are some folks out there who confuse a desire for peace with a putdown of America.

I think the Leaf itself already pushes some hot-buttons just because it isn't using petroleum, doesn't pollute, etc.... How un-American! That's why I wouldn't want anything on the car shouting out "zero emissions", etc.. Wouldn't want anyone keying it in retaliation to my "smugness". I was actually thinking of debadging the thing.

I agree on some level. I was interviewed by the local paper (San Jose Mercury News) about being ready to reserve a leaf (this was the week before 4/20). The reporter asked why i wanted to buy an electric car, and i explained a couple of things such as my desire to not use oil, the environment, etc. One thing i did say was that i had a little bit of guilt for using gas in this day and age.

The paper In the "comments" that the general public gets to put in the mercury news website, I was completely flamed pretty severely by a bunch of people for the guilt comment (you know, standard "you liberal asshole", "damn Al Gore Worshipers", "why don't you kill yourself if you're feeling guilty for living")

On one level, it was entertaining to see people get so worked up over a simple comment, but it's also a sad sign of the times, and it may make sense not to rub it in too much.

On the flip side i have a slogan that I'm planning on using for my electric motorcycle conversion (and maybe the leaf too). I'm getting the plate frame printed, so i'll post it when it's done.

There are always nut jobs who will come after you no matter WHAT position you take, which side of the fence or even if you are on top of the fence. I've Blogged -- back in the 1980's before they were called blogs and we used a dial-up BBS system; even then there were wack-jobs who were going to "come over and clean my mouth out (or my clock, etc etc). And my blog was about building, using and maintaining a hybrid wind, solar, and natural gas engine generator to operate a large home, etc. Something we most like would take for granted today. Anyway, my standard response was "Come on Down, old son, but bring plenty of Ammo". Never encountered a single soul. Of course, today I suppose that would be interpreted as Terrorist Activity (I mean, OMG! Alternative Energy, being Self-Sufficient, drinking raw milk from goats! Jeeze, Louise, just imagine the size of the SWAT team that would come down on ya! Eric Holder would have to contract out to Wackenhut for more gun-slingers [oh, wait, Thalmic Pause --- the Government already does that] ...) .....

About pasting up your car with stickers: Meme bumper stickers and so forth are triggers from all kinds of behavior. -- Remember what happened to the "Baby on Board" craze and the "Honk if you Love Jesus" and the "Family Home Evening" (LDS folks). For the Obama folks, how about the "NObama" stickers? Here in the South, how about the "If I knew they were so much trouble I would have picked my own damned cotton". Oh yes, those stickers are out there too and people put them on their cars (well, most 1975 Ford pickups with bald tires). And we aren't even going with what happens with the pro- and anti-abortion stickers and license plates .... that would be like driving on the IED highway into Baghdad while driving a Ford Pinto with a full gas tank and wearing a Borat swimsuit.

The bottom line is how much do you want to do to attract attention to yourself? If you wish to be a vocal and sometimes obnoxious evangelists of a cause, then paper your whole vehicle with whatever floats your boat. On the other hand if you want to not be concerned with some asshole stabbing your tires with his yee-haa buck knife or scraping the sides with his keys, or (and a more permanent solution) spraying Aviation-grade paint remover (SV-35 / PMA) in a small spray bottle, then take the route most often traveled and proselytize in a different manner.

I don't mean be a coward .. just be careful.

Just sayin' ...

Dave

 

[thankyouOB]

I agree with Dave, and I dont do bumper stickers.
I dont need to advertise to the world of drivers on the freeway just where I stand on so many hot button issues.
my favorite, if I had a bumper:

US Out Of My Uterus

 

[garygid]

The "smaller" size Magnetic Signs ($10 + $6 shipping for Q1)
at http://www.vistaprint.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, 250 business cards for $10, including shipping.

There are usually vistaprint coupons on-line.

Note: magnets will not "stick" to plastic bumpers, or aluminum doors.

 

[Randy3]

Hey everyone,

I'm thinking of putting up a small sign on the passenger window behind the driver on my LEAF. The sign would read:

"This Electric Car
averages more than
4 miles per kilowatt hour
and charges overnight at
6 cents per kilowatt hour.
This equals more than
66 miles per $1.00"

The idea is to spread the word about how low the operating cost is for the LEAF, without beating up on anyone for driving an ICE.

Thoughts?

 

[Herm]

US Out Of My Uterus

Congratulations

How about: Ask me how to get back $7500 of your taxes from the Feds.