Are you sorry you bought a Leaf?

[memills]

Pros: (happy I bought it)

-- insurance policy against gas prices / shortages. I lived through the oil
embargoes. I am also a peak oil believer

-- drives / looks like a great car, ice or electric

-- 1/2 price of the Volthoax

Cons:
-- must make a 110 mile, one way commute to a work sites about 34 weeks out of they
year. Thought I would be able to stop 1/2 way to recharge in about 20 minutes. Actually.
at Level II charger, would take 1 - 1.5 hours. Way too long to be practical

-- apparently, I cannot upgrade my SV to LV for a Level III charge, which would allow a
20 minute recharge.

-- in an emergency, and need to get away more than 100 miles (fires, earthquakes, terrorism, etc.)
sh(*t outta luck in a Leaf

Bottom line:
-- for a family with 2 cars, the Leaf can be a great choice for local trips, other hybrid or ice only
car for road trips / emergencies.

 

[ERG4ALL]

Memills, you've touched on the only thing that I think Nissan could have made more plain. When we ordered Nissan indicated that the QC port was an option on the SL. They didn't indicate that it was a factory only rather than a dealer installed option as many options can be. Case in point, when we took delivery of our 2003 PT Cruiser GT, we requested the factory flames rather than taking it to a paint shop. The flames were expertly installed at the dealership. Thus we don't have the option because the dealer cannot install the QC port. As it turns out very few QC charging stations are and will be available. Most all of the public stations will be the Level 2. Now all we need is for the dealers to be able to install the upgraded 6.6 kWh converter.

 

[garylai]

I've had my Leaf for a week now. No regrets so far. My commute is 45 miles round trip, so I guess I'm in the 90th+ percentile for commute distance according to the statistics. I drive ECO mode all the time, 70% freeway at speeds of about 60 mph on cruise control with an occasional burst to 65 mph when needed. The car drives fine in ECO mode, better than the VW Golf TDI (running B99 biodiesel) that I had for 5 years before I bought the Leaf. I arrive home with about 45 miles range if I charge to 100% and 23 miles range if I charge to 80%, so my 100% range is about 90 miles. We have another car in the family (with an ICE), so I never plan to nor do I need to drive the Leaf more than 50 miles in a day . I don't think I'm an outlier in terms of my needs. Before I took delivery of the Leaf, I tracked how many times I drove my Golf more than 50 miles in a day, and over the course of an entire year, I did that 3 times, and each time I could just as easily have swapped with my wife and driven her car instead. I think tens of millions of people in the US are in a similar situation for whom the Leaf will be a nice fit (two car family, second car primarily for commuting, commute less than 50 miles a day, have a garage or carport to put a Level 2 charger, not a lead foot driver). At least a third of the people at my workplace are in a similar situation. This is not a niche product, it is a mass market product. It just takes some adjustment in habits and realignment in what people think they need to what they actually need.

 

[Lanzer]

Add me to the "no" list.

To me driving the Leaf is not a sacrifice, it's an enhanced driving experience. The car is quiet, has decent torque, equipped with fun technologies like carwings and the iphone app, great handling with a tight turning radius, and when I'm in a hurry I don't feel bad for slamming on the pedal. (Felt like I'm always in a hurry! It's a geek's dream. Every one of my friends are impressed with how the Leaf handles and I think it'll be a conversation piece for the next little while.

Of course, it's been said a thousand times - it works because I have a second car and I have a garage to park and charge the Leaf.

 

[lemketron]

Add me to the "no" list.

To me driving the Leaf is not a sacrifice, it's an enhanced driving experience. The car is quiet, has decent torque, equipped with fun technologies like carwings and the iphone app, great handling with a tight turning radius, and when I'm in a hurry I don't feel bad for slamming on the pedal. (Felt like I'm always in a hurry! It's a geek's dream. Every one of my friends are impressed with how the Leaf handles and I think it'll be a conversation piece for the next little while.

Of course, it's been said a thousand times - it works because I have a second car and I have a garage to park and charge the Leaf.

+1 ("What he said." All of it.)

I absolutely love my LEAF; everyone I've showed it to (or given a ride to) has been impressed as well.
Will the cars and/or batteries improve in the future? Sure, but to me the future is already here.
My 8yo PV system has paid for itself already, so not only is my LEAF solar-powered but it's truly "free fuel". Bonus!

 

[rmay635703]

I can't say I regret it completely, but there is also no way I would recommend it to a friend. I think it's accurate to say that I'm completely underwhelmed by it because I have a freeway commute that I was intending to use it for. The range on the freeway is pretty abysmal - about 70 miles under optimal conditions at the speed limit.

In an EV your "FE" is much more important as you have found since your gas tank is one size and cannot be easily filled on your trip.

You wouldn't complain that the prius doesn't get 65mpg at 85mph?
Nor should you expect the ideal range of 138 miles if you don't drive ideally at an ideal speed.

So, The only way to make it go further is to drive slower or add a $15 plastic kamback off the rear window to improve aero. I get 50mpg from my 010 cobalt (mixed city driving), its rated at 37mpg highway. It is possible to get your required range, if you are willing to relearn how to drive.

Hopefully as more electrics get on the road, people start to care more about driving technique, car aero and weight.

The leaf could easily have 50% more range using exactly the same motor and battery if Nissan would have made the car lighter with better aero.

 

[thankyouOB]

what is a plastic kamback??????????????

 

[TomT]

A cheap knockoff of the stainless steel kamback...

what is a plastic kamback??????????????

 

[rmay635703]

I'll be close to that. I'll put around 20K a year on my car. I charge to 100% virtually every time due to my commute. Even though I'm leasing, I drive 65mph or less and use ECO about 85% of the time.....so if 100% charging alone causes battery degradation, I'll be one of the first to see it. :?

edit: with over 5700 miles on my Leaf already, I see no degradation. I'm expecting 5-10% degradation after 3 years at the very MOST. Certainly nowhere near 50%!!

You better hope that a location to charge in the midst of your travels pops up in the next 5-10 years.

Or when the leaf gets a little older and not under warranty consider ecomodding it for better aero and range.

 

[Googler]

You wouldn't complain that the prius doesn't get 65mpg at 85mph?

The Prius was advertised at 45mpg highway, and I get about 50mpg at 60-75 mph. If I drove the Leaf at 75mph it would look even worse. Moreover, I get 450 miles range on the Prius without refueling, and it takes a few minutes to refuel. No matter how much we might want EVs to look good, the facts are what will hold them back for consumers.

 

[DarkStar]

You wouldn't complain that the prius doesn't get 65mpg at 85mph?

The Prius was advertised at 45mpg highway, and I get about 50mpg at 60-75 mph.

and the Leaf is advertised as getting 99 MPGe or 73 miles on a full charge. I've been getting 95-105 miles on a full charge, so our comparisons are fairly equal...

 

[Googler]

Nissan has repeatedly issued obfuscated numbers in their statements, but the figure they quote most often is 100. EPA reported it at 73 for a five-cycle course that doesn't resemble my commute. When EPA changed their testing in 2006, they dropped the highway mileage estimate for the Prius to only 45mpg, which is a 10% underestimate of what I get on my commute. The older EPA test is also run at the lower speed of 60mph, so the EPA estimate seemed much lower than what I was getting on my Prius. The newer EPA test requires repeated acceleration and decceleration and an average speed of only 48mph. None of these are representative of my commute.

The bottom line is the range I am observing is for my commute is at the low end of the ranges that have been quoted, and I'm comparing the performance of my Prius to my Leaf on the same commute at 65mph. I have no doubt that some can get longer range by using different roads or obstructing traffic. The old phrase is "your mileage may vary", but I have one data point to offer in my commute: 50mpg on my Prius translates into about 75 miles of range on the Leaf.

 

[jhm614]

The bottom line is the range I am observing is for my commute is at the low end of the ranges that have been quoted, and I'm comparing the performance of my Prius to my Leaf on the same commute at 65mph. I have no doubt that some can get longer range by using different roads or obstructing traffic. The old phrase is "your mileage may vary", but I have one data point to offer in my commute: 50mpg on my Prius translates into about 75 miles of range on the Leaf.

I think you nailed it right there -- it's all about how the Leaf performs on our individual commutes (just like our electrical costs depend on our individual locations / circumstances.) I remember reading that it didn't make sense to charge your Leaf at home and that work charging wasn't always an option for you. Any changes on that front? And did you decide to sell the Leaf?

 

[ERG4ALL]

Remember, Nissan's claim of 100/charge is using the LA4 EPA test. Most people just focus on the 100 mile claim forgetting the stipulation that goes along with it. The LA4 test averaged 19.8 mph and had just one segment of around 55 mph that lasted only 2 minutes.

 

[eeman]

Absolutely not. Best car I have ever owned. It is all that was advertised and then more.

 

[TomT]

The LA4 cycle is probably realistic for certain locales such as Japan, but totally out of touch with the actual driving situation in most of the U.S.

Remember, Nissan's claim of 100/charge is using the LA4 EPA test. Most people just focus on the 100 mile claim forgetting the stipulation that goes along with it. The LA4 test averaged 19.8 mph and had just one segment of around 55 mph that lasted only 2 minutes.

 

[cyellen]

+1

Absolutely not. Best car I have ever owned. It is all that was advertised and then more.

 

[Googler]

The LA4 cycle is probably realistic for certain locales such as Japan, but totally out of touch with the actual driving situation in most of the U.S.

Nissan is now much more forthcoming about different estimates of range than they were when I ordered the vehicle. During all of 2010 they distributed misleading information to news outlets, while they remained silent on the actual range under a variety of conditions. That's what led to stories like http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/business/28volt.html

By the time I took delivery of the car, it was clear that the 100 mile range was largely marketing hype.

 

[lemketron]

By the time I took delivery of the car, it was clear that the 100 mile range was largely marketing hype.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. I'm no expert, but I'm trying to learn how this all works for my own understanding. From the 500 miles I've driven over the past two weeks, I have to say it totally depends on what sort of driving you're doing.

MOST of my driving is non-freeway, city street driving in Silicon Valley. Taking kids to school, going to work, shopping, etc. In that case, I can easily get 90-100+ miles on a charge, though the reality is that unless I skip charging for several days, it's rarely an issue. The range is "plenty good enough" (for me).

From the couple of times I've driven to somewhere 20-30 miles away on the freeway, it seems more clear that the range for freeway driving is closer to 70 miles, and that still depends on whether you're running the A/C, and exactly how fast you're driving. I suspect people driving 60-ish with no A/C will get more than 70 miles, but someone driving 75 with the A/C will get less.

That said, I have NO regrets about buying my LEAF. I'm fortunate that I work five miles from home. I look for every chance I can find to drive the LEAF instead of our minivan. We won't bother taking it on long trips and thus don't really worry about where to charge when we venture out, but we can still displace a healthy percentage of our gasoline consumption.

 

[smkettner]

Today I could have spent half my lunch at Costco getting a decent price on gasoline. Very happy to drive right on by with Leaf

There is more to life than just finding the lowest cost.