EVDRIVER said:I have seen the pack price, retail and wholesale and it is remarkably low. Dealer cost must be laughable in comparison to what people are guessing.
He probably has Phil's add-on charger.TomT said:What are you using for a 6.6Kw charger???EVDRIVER said:SL, 6.6kw Charger
dgpcolorado said:With regard to the idea that needing to replace the battery pack in a LEAF was unexpected, I noticed this tidbit in the manual (page EV-3):I wonder if anyone has seen that light yet?The Li-ion battery has limited service life, and when its charging capacity falls below a specific level, the EV system warning light will illuminate. Owners should bring their vehicle in for inspection and possible battery replacement.
drees said:He probably has Phil's add-on charger. Here's a good link to start your reading if you hadn't heard of it yet: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=232638#p232638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;TomT said:What are you using for a 6.6Kw charger???EVDRIVER said:SL, 6.6kw Charger
TomT said:Oh, I've heard of it I just didn't think Phil had made any available beyond his own car...
+1 My current plan is to replace the car after three or four years, not because of battery health (it appears to be working like new at almost 15K miles), but to get 6.6kW charging. It would make all of those Chargepoint stations suddenly useful.abasile said:...The only real downside is still being stuck with slow 3.3 kW charging. I do own the car outright, and hope to drive it into the ground.
If that were remotely true then Andy Palmer wouldn't be fumfering about the battery price. Also, Nissan would have a breakthrough in battery pricing and I highly doubt they'd be keeping quiet about it.EVDRIVER said:I have seen the pack price, retail and wholesale and it is remarkably low. Dealer cost must be laughable in comparison to what people are guessing.
DeaneG said:+1 My current plan is to replace the car after three or four years, not because of battery health (it appears to be working like new at almost 15K miles), but to get 6.6kW charging. It would make all of those Chargepoint stations suddenly useful.abasile said:...The only real downside is still being stuck with slow 3.3 kW charging. I do own the car outright, and hope to drive it into the ground.
Great TV Show quotes;
From "Walking Dead" episode 6 season 1. from the lone occupant of the CDC in Atlanta musing over the impending loss of power to the center which would trigger a self destruct sequence
"The Whole World runs on fossil fuel. How dumb is that?"
A lot of stuff going on in this thread around battery price, most of them look fantastically low(5K$) or high(19K$). But I guess introductions are in order.September said:I can comment on maximum price for battery back. It was mentioned that Renault is doing this battery leasing idea and they teamed up with operator of robotic battery switching stations BetterPlace. I think best results are in Israel, and they offer variety of ways to pay for battery leasing and access to stations. They also offer ability to purchase battery, as buying a car where one cannot ever own battery is a bit risky. This is data from respectable newspaper so I assume it is right:
http://www.haaretz.com/business/chastened-by-market-better-place-sweetens-deal-for-electric-car-buyers-1.451596" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
77000 NIS is about 19000 $ and this price includes numerous Israeli taxes, duties and probably massive premium to make sure that you lease rather then buy battery. I think that is also ceiling to how much battery could cost.
It makes me wonder if problems of BetterPlace are not somehow related to rather warm climate in Israel and more frequent need to change batteries than anticipated.
edward said:Better place at one point clearly stated in a presentation that their cost per battery from Renault is EUR 9,900(that's 12,870$). Source:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/better-place-announces-business-plan-signs-israeli-lease-deal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are a few more methods available to arrive at battery replacement cost, but the above are the most direct ones.
So to conclude - you can relax. It's not 5,000$ nor 19,000$. It's probably around 12,000$.
However, considering you might trade in the old battery, there should be a discount. Guess time! It is my uneducated guess that you would be able to deduct around 2,000$ for the old battery you turn in assuming 70% original capacity or less.
Enjoy your LEAFs everyone!
I don't believe they would actually replace all the cells in a pack, it's probably cheaper to either - give you a new pack and take the old, or replace individual cells. So if you want all new cells, you will probably pay 12K$ for new minus a 2K$ rebate for the old one, or 10K$ net.TonyWilliams said:I used the simple 24kWh * $500 = $12,000
That doesn't mean that "list price" won't be $19,000, but the real price a shop pays will likely be closer to $12,000, as you state Better Place pays.
I suspect that remanufactured batteries with core trade will be one half to three quarters of new ($6000 -$9000 shop price exchange, $9500 - $14,250 "list price")
Yes, you probably couldn't connect additional 5 year old modules serially to the old ones because of the issue you raised.DaveinOlyWA said:Degradation should be balanced across all the cells on the pack which means an entire pack exchange its the only option
edward said:I don't believe they would actually replace all the cells in a pack, it's probably cheaper to either - give you a new pack and take the old, or replace individual cells. So if you want all new cells, you will probably pay 12K$ for new minus a 2K$ rebate for the old one, or 10K$ net.TonyWilliams said:I used the simple 24kWh * $500 = $12,000
That doesn't mean that "list price" won't be $19,000, but the real price a shop pays will likely be closer to $12,000, as you state Better Place pays.
I suspect that remanufactured batteries with core trade will be one half to three quarters of new ($6000 -$9000 shop price exchange, $9500 - $14,250 "list price")
However, if I owned a LEAF, I wouldn't first consider buying new cells after 5 years to restore the range. Since new cells degrade faster than old, it is not smart to actually buy them at all! I would first attempt some hacking
What I would attempt to do(and maybe succeed) is with 3 more LEAF owners, buying another 5 year old pack. This pack should contain 48 modules. We disassemble the pack, with each of us getting 12 modules. Then we proceed to connect these 12 modules in parallel with the existing 48 module, 5 year old pack on our LEAF. This should theoretically result in 25% more range. So say after 5 years, range is 60 instead of 75 as new, this upgrade will restore it to 75. Note that around 100 pounds of weight will be added.
But the interesting bit is since battery degradation of a 5 year old battery should be slower than new, in 5 years the range won't be 60 again, but more like 67 .
Also, consider that the cost of this operation should be very low compared to an all new battery. A 5 year old battery should cost 4,000$ or so, and be used for 4 cars. So each owner will pay 1,000$, plus other "hacking" costs such as labor and hardware tuning. This as opposed to 10,000$ net for a new battery.
It seems to me that this solution is several times cheaper and in some respects somewhat better than a brand new pack.
Maybe I'm delusional, but how's that for an idea?
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