An ETHICAL question about deliveries

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Jastro54

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
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3
To the Thousands who reserved the First week that Nissan took deposits for a coveted "LEAF"

Is it ethical or fair, that when your Nissan dealer gets a Leaf delivered and the person who ordered it decides not to take delivery= the car becomes an "ORPHAN"
??? Should the Dealer at least OFFER those on the waiting delivery list a chance at the car- thereby moving them up the list?????
Is this asking too much ?? :ugeek:
 
Jastro54 said:
To the Thousands who reserved the First week that Nissan took deposits for a coveted "LEAF"
Is it ethical or fair, that when your Nissan dealer gets a Leaf delivered and the person who ordered it decides not to take delivery= the car becomes an "ORPHAN"
??? Should the Dealer at least OFFER those on the waiting delivery list a chance at the car- thereby moving them up the list?????
Is this asking too much ?? :ugeek:

IMO, it's neither ethical nor fair not to let another 'orderer' buy/lease the car. This is one way the dealers have gotten around Nissan's internet ordering system. The other way is even worse when they try to discourage an orderer not to accept the car because the dealer has changed the previous deal.
 
Let us expand the question. Is it ethical for someone who buys Leaf - but sells it quickly to do so to the highest bidder instead of someone with an order.
 
The roll out by states is not fair to those of us who are geographically disadvantaged (in the forgotten 36). It is what it is, and we just have to deal with it. We are at least lucky that Nissan seems to be making a major commitment to the LEAF, so at least they are likely to make enough of them that we'll eventually get the chance to buy them in the forgotten 36.
 
I bought an Orphan and I paid extra for the privilege. I thought about what stigma it might carry and then concluded that it was Nissan's call. Aside from the dealers being able to make more money selling them, and agree that that is quasi ethical, it could be that the main reason they went this route is that essentially rearranging the waiting list over and over could become an even worse public relations issue than the shuffling that has already occurred.

They don't know until the day that a car comes in and the buyer officially declines, that the car is even available... They have to wait till then to offer it up to anyone. Right now all they have to do is call down the list of folks who are happy to take whatever comes in, no waiting with cars taking up space on the lot. Even if they only offered the car up to other folks with exactly the same order, people would still gripe. Imagine how you'd feel if you ordered Red SLE but without the floor mats, but the order that was declined was with the floor mats and you got passed? Someone would have to make those kind of hair splitting judgement calls. Maybe that's not the best example but, you know what I mean. Someone would have to sort all that out and even more people could end up feeling somehow slighted.

It's also important to give people warning before their order arrives, to give them time to sell their car and get the money/financing figured out. I can see that yes they make more money selling off the Orphans but I can also see how much of a fiasco it could be to go through the process of identifying appropriate orders to swap and then having all the red tape of resorting the list over and over, having people really wanting to take the car but not having time to have sold their existing one, not quite have the money together, lots of hemming and hawing etc. Compare that to calling the next guy on the Orphan list, moments after a decline occurs and saying if you get down here right now there is a car for you. That was me, we gambled and by a flook sold our Jetta 4 days prior. Risking being down to one car for an untold amount of time. I understand the temptation for the dealer, but then again i was a benefactor. That's not to say I don't understand the frustration for those who have been waiting, I would probably be frustrated if I went through all the waiting that most others had to go through and having a bunch wash out to sea on top of that!

For my family it came down to dollars and cents. The car I was driving, a 2010 jetta TDI Sportwagon, had miraculously barely depreciated (in part because of the rebate I got on that car was well, which ran out weeks after I bought it). If I was going to make the switch, now was the time. I just started thinking about getting on a waiting list when the earth quake happened and found that even without the earth quake that getting one of these cars could be more than a year off if going through normal routes, no telling what the Jetta would be worth then, especially since the EV market would surely eat into the bio-fuel market... surely it was a wash at best. Also, the blink chargers were going to run out if I waited, which would then cost me an additional 2K+, about what the up charge was for the Orphan. Everyone seems to be sure that the $7500 federal rebate and the aprox $3500 sales tax exemption are going to last a while, but our uncertain economy had me wanting to be on the safe side of all that too. On top of all that, I figured the fuel savings alone would cover the up charge.

In the end, I took advantage of an offer I couldn't refuse. Please don't hate me :)
g
 
There is no such thing as ethics when it comes to selling cars.

Someone will always profit and someone will always feel taken advantage of. In the end, no one is forced to do anything, so everyone involved in buying/selling a car willingly accepts or compromises the ethics involved, making it pretty much a moot point.
 
evnow said:
Let us expand the question. Is it ethical for someone who buys Leaf - but sells it quickly to do so to the highest bidder instead of someone with an order.

Let's not, and stick to the original question because that's a different situation.
 
Jimmydreams said:
There is no such thing as ethics when it comes to selling cars.

Someone will always profit and someone will always feel taken advantage of. In the end, no one is forced to do anything, so everyone involved in buying/selling a car willingly accepts or compromises the ethics involved, making it pretty much a moot point.


that is true, but different situations warrant different rules and i believe this situation needs a much better response from Nissan Corporate as how to deal with cars ordered 4+ months ago where the customer decides against the purchase.

there are others in line with his same car (there are not really that many options out there) who should be offered the car first.
 
Sorry, but nice try. No ethical issue exists. The car belongs to the dealer. He can do with it as he wishes. Nissan has clearly identified (or will) the car you are to receive. Your desire to get a car sooner doesn't create any sort of obligation on the dealer.
 
davewill said:
Sorry, but nice try. No ethical issue exists. The car belongs to the dealer. He can do with it as he wishes. Nissan has clearly identified (or will) the car you are to receive. Your desire to get a car sooner doesn't create any sort of obligation on the dealer.

no... its not "no ethical issue exists" its "no ethics exist"

i have dealt with other car dealerships who have been in the same situation and acted MUCH differently.

its not a knock on Nissan. its a knock on the individual dealers who decide to do this, period.
 
LEAFfan said:
evnow said:
Let us expand the question. Is it ethical for someone who buys Leaf - but sells it quickly to do so to the highest bidder instead of someone with an order.

Let's not, and stick to the original question because that's a different situation.
Why ? Looks like you want to make a clear distinction where the lines aren't that clear.

If you want to look at ethics, you should be able to handle such uncomfortble comparisons.
 
davewill said:
Sorry, but nice try. No ethical issue exists. The car belongs to the dealer. He can do with it as he wishes. Nissan has clearly identified (or will) the car you are to receive. Your desire to get a car sooner doesn't create any sort of obligation on the dealer.
I think you have nailed it here, Dave. Neither Nissan corporate nor the dealer is doing anything to cheat you out of the car you have ordered. And, as Gasless pointed out, trying to do anything else would get very messy, and would of necessity involve pre-ordered cars being delivered out of order. We've had quite enough of that already - wouldn't want to make it even more prevalent.

Ray
 
GaslessInSeattle said:
Everyone seems to be sure that the $7500 federal rebate and the aprox $3500 sales tax exemption are going to last a while, but our uncertain economy had me wanting to be on the safe side of all that too. g

Is the sales tax exemption only available Washington?
 
Is it ethical for a someone to have reserved/ordered a car with no real intention (or means) of buying/leasing it, and not bothering to cancel the order until the last very minute?
 
EVfun said:
GaslessInSeattle said:
Everyone seems to be sure that the $7500 federal rebate and the aprox $3500 sales tax exemption are going to last a while, but our uncertain economy had me wanting to be on the safe side of all that too. g

Is the sales tax exemption only available Washington?

You have to check with your state to see what exemptions/subsidies they offer, if any. It allowed me to sell on the open market and get a premium for my previous car without loosing the sales tax credit I would have gotten if trading in. I ended up getting $6K more for my car than I would have with trade in this way! In WA state they seem to simply deduct the sales tax credit from what they offer you for the car as if it's really a perk for the dealer.
g
 
LALeaf said:
Is it ethical for a someone to have reserved/ordered a car with no real intention (or means) of buying/leasing it, and not bothering to cancel the order until the last very minute?
I've seen reports of people reserving the car to show support for Nissan's EV initiative (a lot of Tesla owners, for eg). But not all of them are buying (many are waiting for S).
 
LALeaf said:
Is it ethical for a someone to have reserved/ordered a car with no real intention (or means) of buying/leasing it, and not bothering to cancel the order until the last very minute?

+1
 
Unfortunately, the word "ethics" and the phrase "car dealership" are very seldom used in the same sentence. They are a few notable exceptions, like Fontana Nissan, but they are way too few and far apart...

davewill said:
Sorry, but nice try. No ethical issue exists. The car belongs to the dealer. He can do with it as he wishes. Nissan has clearly identified (or will) the car you are to receive. Your desire to get a car sooner doesn't create any sort of obligation on the dealer.
 
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