Adding a Brusa charger under the hood for '11/'12s

[metricmind]

The "clear error latch" message should be sent right before commanding ghe charger to output actual values you want, else it will just return "not ready" status with a bit set flagging what exactly is not ready. But in my experience clearing the latch with non-zero output values also wotks - as soon as message is sent the output is active. I think this is just safety requirement, sort of like release accelerator pedal (set 0 speed) before releasing parking brake, but ig you don't the car attempts to jump to preset speed wnen the brake is off. Same here. Besides, if you command a value from zero, initial ramp is observed. If you just "release brake", it may not be as gracefull.

Victor

 

[JasonA]

Thanks buddy!! Going to try another attempt at CAN control this weekend!

 

[metricmind]

Hi Jason,

Sorry for silly typos in my last reply, I was typing on crammed cell phone keyboard...

As for the latch clearing and CAN control - this visualization might explain it better:
http://www.metricmind.com/data/nlg5_pcan_expl.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's a screen shot of CAN explorer I was running to test one of the BRUSA NLG513 chargers.

On the transmit pane you see the same 0x618 controlling message coming out every 100ms
and being sent manually (where it says "wait" in "cycle time" column. Notice periodic message
requests 306.4V and 1.3A output with clear error latch (NLG5_C_C_EL 0x618 bit 6) set to zero.
The charger though will not output anything until I manually inject the message as above with
bit 6 transitioning 0->1. Also notice that I set output to 306.4V (not 0V), but I set output current
to 0A. This clears the latch and very next periodic message resets bit 6 back to zero and now
1.3A will be going out. Reason for this is to avoid 306.4V to 0V swing back and forth to reduce
transients. So in your embedded controller you can either start periodic messaging and then clear
the latch injecting it, or clear it first (right before output requests) but after you set up everything
else (enable CAN comm, etc).
Actually, as far as the NLG5 I no longer mess with individual bits anymore - to simplify controls I
created a virtual instrument panel where I can just use sliding potentiometers to just dial desired
output on the fly, and push buttons to reset error latch and do other things - it converts dialed
values to CAN messages for me automatically and also decodes incoming CAN traffic and displays
the internal status to me: http://www.metricmind.com/data/instr_panel.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've done this couple of years ago so I'm going by memory regarding bits sequence, but I'm pretty
sure the info above is accurate.

Good luck with your tests, please let us all know how it goes,

Victor

 

[JeremyW]

Had a meetup yesterday with Greg and Jason, with Allen poking his head in for a bit. Got the Brusa running under CAN mode now, respecting the pilot and shutting down at the correct time including when pushing the j1772 button down. Jason also showed off two water jetted mounting plates which look good.

One small step closer! I'm working some OT this week so it's going to be tough to squeeze in some time to work on installing my Brusa. Oh well. I think I want some of the parts powder coated before installation anyway. :twisted:

 

[metricmind]

How are using Brusa's CP I/O? I mean if you want to use its CP (can't see why would you want that), now you have 2 CP signals to deal with Just curious. (Unless you're just testing things...)

 

[JasonA]

Hey Victor,

We're not using any of the Brusa's CP stuff. Strictly just Greg's unit and him sending out the CAN msgs to the Brusa for control. After a few (many :lol plugs & unplugs and watching the laptop to see what the Brusa was saying, Greg figured it all out.

He also got the ampacity reading from the EVSE pilot so we'll know what we're plugged into, how much to pull, etc. It's all pretty much there.

I always give thanks in my vids but I consider this project pretty much DONE as the prototype has been completed and now Rev.2 plates have been waterjetted up with the new mods and look great!!

Full EV-CAN controlled ext charger for the Leaf that's tied right into the factory harness... LOOKS stock, feels stock, etc..

Thanks to GregH (his controller and CAN SW).. Thanks to Victor at Metric Mind for the endless and AMAZING support on these chargers! You truly know everything about them!! Thanks to Jeremy for starting this thread and having the vision to keep it going!! Thanks to KillaWatt for the phone time and MetriPack's.. I still need to help you on getting yours programmed!....

And Tony for the nerdfest day up at your house!! Without that, we would not have had the prototype plate!

Final Vid... enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvj_6W-8nTY

 

[metricmind]

@Jeremy

If you saw some (0x614) CAN frames broadcasted by the NLG513 interfere with Leaf's bus, you can change IDs of those messages using Chargestar and save them as a new fefaults for your charger.

Good project everybody! I wish you all luck with showing it off and charging at higher rate. We do what Nissan should have done themselves...

Victor

p.s My project is done too, and I just realized that sinse no software in my case was involved at all, design directly applies to any EV with no changes - RAV4's, S10's and about any future EV like upcoming Focus.

I also wanted to mention ttat the pricjng for the NLG513 is changing (lowering) fot group buys - the larger batch - the bigger impact, but even for 10 units one can take advantage of it. It is allowed to set a % discount gust for asking (within limits of course, but better than plain quantity discount schedule).

At some point wnen I'm in CA I got to drive down where you are and meet you all. Really wonder what we can come up with next

Big thanks to Jason for cool videos - it's easy to click on the link and get entertained, but takes effort to prepare everything , film and upload for everyone's bebefit.

 

[KillaWhat]

Good talk Jason.
I'll contact Greg for a DD that will control my setup.

Ready to bolt it up now.
Think I'll take my Leaf to Nissan to have them try to find the front end rattle while I'm waiting for the DD controller.

Here is the finished plate.

Pretty happy with it.

 

[DaveEV]

I'd like to know because I bought a few Leaf cells and they sure charge right up to 4.20 volts.

Where can I buy one of these modules? I saw Jeremy with one as well and I've never been able to find a discussion about them on this forum.

I believe that Autobeyours.com will sell individual modules from salvaged vehicles.

Here is the finished plate.
Pretty happy with it.

That is a work of art right there!!! Very well done!

 

[aminorjourney]

Good talk Jason.
I'll contact Greg for a DD that will control my setup.

Ready to bolt it up now.
Think I'll take my Leaf to Nissan to have them try to find the front end rattle while I'm waiting for the DD controller.

Here is the finished plate.

Pretty happy with it.

Yup, that's one nice piece of metalwork!

Are the mounting plates identical for air and water-cooled variants?

Second, has anyone tested what happens with cabin pre-heat? The on-board heater is capable of pulling up to 6 kW if memory serves correctly. Does this new setup allow for that all to be powered from a 7kW EVSE? Not only would that reduce warm-up time in winter, but would help preserve range for winter commutes.

Nikki.

 

[KillaWhat]

Thank you for your kind words about the plate

Are the mounting plates identical for air and water-cooled variants?

This is probably best answered by Victor, but I attach the dimension sheet for the 3 chargers.
Looks like the mounting holes are spaced the same at 182.5mm X 255mm

The liquid cooled unit does not have the shroud for cooling, so it is not as "wide".
So yes, I could mount a Liquid cooled unit right on to this plate, but I would have more space on the passenger (U.S.) side since the fans are not there.

 

[JasonA]

Second, has anyone tested what happens with cabin pre-heat? The on-board heater is capable of pulling up to 6 kW if memory serves correctly. Does this new setup allow for that all to be powered from a 7kW EVSE? Not only would that reduce warm-up time in winter, but would help preserve range for winter commutes. Nikki.

Hi Nikki,

Like my YouTube vids with the AC on and the display only showing 13-14amps or so, same thing here. The OBC & Brusa is just going to supply the requested power. Whatever the additional systems drain is an afterthought. So basically if the heater is pulling 6kw, and both chargers are running full power......

You'll still be pushing a few amps into the pack (if on 240v).. I tested 208v and it's not as efficient!! Both Leaf & Brusa..

But technically, there's more power avail then the heater pack now.

 

[JasonA]

KillaWatt,

I measured and technically there's enough room for 2 (yes.. TWO ) LQ units.. but plumbing would not be fun. Mounting in the back like Victor did is the best and cleanest.

 

[KillaWhat]

KillaWatt,

I measured and technically there's enough room for 2 (yes.. TWO ) LQ units.. but plumbing would not be fun. Mounting in the back like Victor did is the best and cleanest.

I agree. In fact, I did a CAD design, and you can even get 2 air cooled units under the hood.
But from what we have learned about the Heat generated by these Brusa's when they are running flat out, I would absolutely use the liquid cooled units for a dual setup.

If I could find a pair of J1772 EVSE in areas where I regularly travel, then 3 on-board Brusa chargers with a couple of AC input options would be amazing.
But because of the lack of charging infrastructure here, I'm more interested in a "home" quick charger setup, either AC or DC, as we discussed.

 

[hill]

The thing about auto mode is that you need a way to command the Brusa to zero amps when disconnecting the j1772 (when unplugging before the charge completes) and should have a way to respect the pilot and all that, but it works well for testing!

The water cooled variant is a bit more expensive, also I'd imagine you'd have to partially drain the cooling system to pipe it in. Would love to see a NLG667 under the hood. Even at single phase it's capable of 16A draw. Dunno what the price tag is on one though, probably not too pretty ........snip.......

IT's not a 667 - but here's a 12.5 amp LIQUID COOLED NLG513 with the various connectors & pins. Somewhat pricy:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AZURE-DYNAMICS-SOLECTRIA-BRUSA-NLG513-WX-EV-CHARGER-LIQUID-COOLED-LIKE-NEW-/171021882675?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item27d1b2d533&vxp=mtr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like 12 folks watching it
If only I had the time . . . .

 

[metricmind]

I've done exactly that - all 3 Brusa NLG chargers programmed in auto mode drop out at the moment you press a button on the plug before pulling it out from the J1772 inlet. Works like a charm.

As far as liquid cooled NLG513 on ebay mentioned above - these are circa 2008 models which had some pilot signal handling (timing) issue because the EVSE standard settled after firmware for these NLG5's was released. They are OK if used in automatic mode, or CAN if pilot is to be ignored. Also, depending on the serial number one may or may not get option to reassign CAN IDs to a different value. Lastly, beware that these have no warranty and not supported while cost more than latest generation I carry with warranty and support. This may sound like self-promotion (and I'm at the risk to get banned again :roll: ) but this is just the info I happen to know and potential buyer (or even seller) don't know. I just pass it on here so you all can make more informed decisions.

For the mod Jason and gang did though, this is not relevant since this project uses air cooled units. However, if you guys find air cooled units on ebay or elsewhere, beware of the same firmware issues. It was there for air and liquid cooled units up to about serial number 2000. We're now on >6000 for air cooled ones if I recall...

Lastly - the NLG677. Hate to disappoint you but this is not viable option for at least 3 reasons:

- It outputs 22kW if fed with 440VAC 3 phase. If you use 220/240VAC single phase, it is worse than NLG5 - only 8A output.
- The point above is not even relevant for most USA users since the NLG6 series operated on line frequency 50Hz only.
- Both points above may not be relevant because it costs more than half of your Leaf (in qty one for non-OEM customer).

Victor

 

[derdlim]

i find a full isolated charger 3kw output like the Brusa. The Eltek Powercharger 240 to 430 Volt water cooling version with Chill-plate for 1570 Dollar.
It´s smaller than the brusa nlg5 charger. 2 or 3 under the hood.
Spec and Canbus Dokumentation you can find

http://evolveelectrics.com/Eltek3000_IP67.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.eltek.com/wip4/detail_products.epl?id=1155391&cat=&k1=25508&k2=&k3=&k4=&close=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Derdlim

 

[KillaWhat]

I've done exactly that - all 3 Brusa NLG chargers programmed in auto mode drop out at the moment you press a button on the plug before pulling it out from the J1772 inlet. Works like a charm.

Hi Victor;

I'm almost done my Initial Brusa install.
I would like to run this thing in auto mode; it has the smarts, and I'd like to use them.

My only concerns are;

1) using a smaller EVSE (less than 32 amp), and having it not overdraw and cook something (like the EVSE upgrade)
How can I passively (automatically) prevent that?

If I can solve problem 1:

2) Having the Brusa shut off when the "button is pushed", etc. I assume that your statement above reflects your use of the current sensor PCB you put on your install.
a) How can I get one?
b) How do I use it to shut down the Brusa? (What do I interrupt?)

Thanks for all your help, and your water cooled install looks amazing.

Please PM me if possible.
Thanks

 

[metricmind]

Hi Killawhat,

---1) using a smaller EVSE (less than 32 amp), and having it not overdraw and cook something (like the EVSE upgrade)
How can I passively (automatically) prevent that?

You can restrict input current draw by connecting a resistor between pin 8 and pin 23.

Connect 4k pot and see want happens. Going from 4K to zero restricts AC input current from
16A to 0A. You of course can put in a few fixed resistors and selector switch (selecting common
EVSEs, like 20A, 30A, 32A, 40A).

---If I can solve problem 1:

---2) Having the Brusa shut off when the "button is pushed", etc. I assume that your statement above reflects your use of the current sensor PCB you put on your install.
---a) How can I get one?

Yes, I use current sensor. Schematic is on my site: http://www.metricmind.com/leaf/images/098.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , PCB layout is here: http://www.metricmind.com/leaf/images/099.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ,
it's very simple to build as I made it with through hole components. I could build a batch for few people, at lest may be 10, but sorry, just one not worth the trouble for me.

---b) How do I use it to shut down the Brusa? (What do I interrupt?)
You enable or disable it (supply/remove +12V to/from pin 3, referenced to pin 1) e.g. connect/disconnect pin 2 to pin 3. See the manual.

---Thanks for all your help, and your water cooled install looks amazing.

Thanks. This week I'm installing the third unit for 60A draw total and 12kW charging power with no EVSEs .

If I have chance to report my result here, I promise I will. If you guys won't hear from me in a while, this means I got banned since I
received warning again as if I'm pushing sales of my chargers on you all or somehow use this forum to benefit my business although
I don't recall marketing anything... Anyway, if that happens, sorry, I won't be able to help anyone regarding any issues with BRUSA NLG5
you all might have.

Good luck with your install, I'm sure you can make it work,

Victor

 

[DaveEV]

If I have chance to report my result here, I promise I will. If you guys won't hear from me in a while, this means I got banned since I
received warning again as if I'm pushing sales of my chargers on you all or somehow use this forum to benefit my business although
I don't recall marketing anything...

If this is in regard to the last PM I sent you, you are taking it the wrong way.

For the record, here's what I sent you via PM:

Victor, I am a big proponent of yours and have argued with other moderators and site-owner about your banning, but even I think that you are very, very close to the line here when you start mentioning your store... Others may feel otherwise.

Personally, I would leave any mention of your business out of any posts or just get the fee paid so you don't have to worry about it.

This was in response to your previous post:

Lastly, beware that these have no warranty and not supported while cost more than latest generation I carry with warranty and support. This may sound like self-promotion (and I'm at the risk to get banned again :roll: )

Please tell me that isn't getting close to or cross the line of promoting your business. You even admit it in your post. You have easily left off 3/4 of the quoted section above without issue.

I 100% agree that you have been and continue to provide valuable information about the Brusa chargers and for the most part have avoided promoting your business. But defending your decision to not upgrade your status to a vendor is tough when you mention your business (especially when your user-name is the name of your business).