A short Public Charging rant

[adric22]

I guess I should chime in with another important issue. Lets think about this issue from a different perspective. What if we talked about traffic on the roadways. What if we said that people who don't NEED to be out driving around, should just stay at home because there is too much traffic on the roads. Only people who absolutely need to go somewhere should use the roads. Well, this policy might actually reduce traffic some. But this type of policy will not get more roads built.

What if we talked about energy usage during peak times when brownouts are occurring. You could tell people to stop using electricity unless they absolutely NEED it. Or you could build more power generation plants.

Am I making any sense here? I think having these charging stations in use is a good thing. It will eventually encourage companies to come in and build more of them. We have chargers here in my area of town, but they sit unused 99% of the time and often blocked by an ICE. So I would be thrilled to see them in use even if it were just PiPs plugged into them. As it is, I'm scared that they won't build any more because the ones we have aren't getting used much.

 

[Deleted member 8423]

the problem is, the PIP is completely charged in 1 hour, so it tends to sit there for many hours, doing nothing but preventing someone else from charging.

I agree that the problem is not that other types of cars are using the chargers, but that they're sitting there consuming the spaces long after they're charged. The suggestion upthread about smart parking meters is a good idea to solve this problem.

The PIP doesn't NEED the charge to get home, vehicles such as the Focus Electric, Fiat 500e, Chevy Spark EV, Smart ED, Nissan LEAF, they all NEED that charger JUST to get around.

How are they supposed to know that someone else "NEEDS" the charger? The reservation system is not used by very many chargers at this time, if any, so it's impossible to predict at most locations.

As for DCFC, that's a pipe dream for most drivers in this country, so not sure why you even mentioned it.

Because you'll typically only have Leaf owners to blame if there's a wait at the DCFC. There's a decent infrastructure of these in many EV-friendly areas, so it's hardly a pipe dream.

I don't see why you have to make a big deal about this.

I didn't. It's the OP that's ranting about it.

If there are plenty of charging stations in the area, fine, but if there are only 1 or 2, and you know there are other cars which truly need it, why would you plug your PIP in?

If I bought a PIP, then I obviously wanted to use it in electric-only mode for some portion of my commute to meet my needs. Why should it matter to me what someone else is driving? The infrastructure was installed with public funds in most places. It's open to anyone that can use it. I can definitely understand why someone wouldn't go move their car in the middle of the work day. So until there's some sort of incentive to disconnect when your battery is full, you're going to continue to have this problem. BTW, it's not limited to Volt/PIP drivers. Many Leaf drivers also leave their vehicles connected to chargers even when they are full.

 

[apvbguy]

I guess I should chime in with another important issue. Lets think about this issue from a different perspective. What if we talked about traffic on the roadways. What if we said that people who don't NEED to be out driving around, should just stay at home because there is too much traffic on the roads. Only people who absolutely need to go somewhere should use the roads.

please tell us exactly who would be the arbiter of who is driving out of necessity and who is not.
what would the parameters be when deciding what causes a need to to drive?
would my needing to drive across town for a doctors appointment be a valid reason for being on the road? is going to check on my 92 year old aunt a valid reason? is going to see a movie a valid reason? how about going to dinner with my wife?

the point is that most people can articulate a reason that they are driving on the road and trying to pick and choose who NEEDS to be driving is an exercise in futility or even worse setting up things for more intrusion by "big brother" into people's daily lives.

 

[adric22]

please tell us exactly who would be the arbiter of who is driving out of necessity and who is not.
what would the parameters be when deciding what causes a need to to drive?
would my needing to drive across town for a doctors appointment be a valid reason for being on the road? is going to check on my 92 year old aunt a valid reason? is going to see a movie a valid reason? how about going to dinner with my wife?

I'm not sure you are arguing with me or agreeing with me. But my point was exactly that, it isn't up to us to determine who really needs it. If your car has a plug on it, you need the juice as much as the next guy. Just because one vehicle CAN run on gas, doesn't mean that driver wants to run on gas. If they liked gas so much, they would have bought a car without a plug. The solution is for us to all use the stations and hopefully this will encourage more to be built.

 

[EVDRIVER]

This is all about awareness and education as well as common sense and courtesy. Oh wait, this is America, looks like we will be fighting over spots for a long time. :lol:

 

[ebill3]

This is America and the 'me first' generation.

 

[lion]

How are they supposed to know that someone else "NEEDS" the charger? The reservation system is not used by very many chargers at this time, if any, so it's impossible to predict at most locations

When you have a gas engine which is more efficient than engines found in regular cars, and your battery only gives you ~11 miles, you DON'T NEED the charging station. Nice? Sure. Will it strand you? No.

Because you'll typically only have Leaf owners to blame if there's a wait at the DCFC. There's a decent infrastructure of these in many EV-friendly areas, so it's hardly a pipe dream.

FYI, the US of A is larger than the west coast. I'm in New York State, and I can count the quick chargers on 1 hand, and 0 of them are within 300 miles or so from me. Many other states don't have them either. Like I said, pipe dream.

If I bought a PIP, then I obviously wanted to use it in electric-only mode for some portion of my commute to meet my needs. Why should it matter to me what someone else is driving?

Guess that's the difference between you and me. I actually owned a PHEV, and I would feel like crap knowing I may have stranded someone who actually NEEDED the damn charging station (considering I don't live in CA, and charging stations aren't as ubiquitous in my area), while I had an extremely efficient gas engine as backup (other PHEVs have efficient engines as well, it's not like they only get 20mpg). So I have never used a public charging station, ever. To each their own, we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

The infrastructure was installed with public funds in most places. It's open to anyone that can use it. I can definitely understand why someone wouldn't go move their car in the middle of the work day.

See, I can't understand that. If your parking meter runs out, don't you run to the meter to refill it, or move the car? If you do, then you already understand the concept of doing this, no financial motivation is needed. If you know your car has been topped off, go move it during your lunch break or whatever instead of being so damn selfish. Most cars, and charging stations, offer to notify you when charging is complete, so why not be considerate of your fellow EV drivers, and move the car? If we want this EV tech to succeed, we need to work together, and be considerate of each others needs, and focus on educating non-EV drivers, instead of having this little EV world implode before it even takes off.

Usually people using the same type of product would stick up for each other, but not seeing this with electric cars, very strange. I guess soon psychiatrists will come up with something called 'Plug Addiction' and 'Plug Rage'.

So until there's some sort of incentive to disconnect when your battery is full, you're going to continue to have this problem. BTW, it's not limited to Volt/PIP drivers. Many Leaf drivers also leave their vehicles connected to chargers even when they are full.

A LEAF will take much longer to charge in most cases, that said, there is no excuse for that either, and they need to move their car as soon as they can, just like any other EV driver. It's what I do, and I hope everyone else here does as well.

 

[CMYK4Life]

I have felt the same way as the OP in the past. It really sucks when you had a plant to use a given charger and its taken by ANY car. Its not the who or what is parked there... its the fact that the charger is not available. I usually have a few choice words when this happens to me.... but... what are ya gonna do?

I always go back to the golden rule. Treat others how you want to be treated. I try to be aware of how much charge I need and how long my car sat there.

I am usually ready to go as soon as I have sufficent range anyway because when I charge in public I am usually going someplace outside the range of the car and have a 'plan' I am following.

 

[dhanson865]

I used to own a LEAF but now I own a Volt. I'm guessing that the reason you see a lot of Volt (can't speak for the Prius) charging is probably because those charging stations are free. Once they all switch to a charge fee model, it's not economical for Volts to use them anymore. Even if you have a Blink membership and enjoy the $1/hr rate at an L2 Blink station, it'll take 4 hours -> $4 to fill up the Volt battery to go 40 miles. Meanwhile, it costs 1 gallon of gas (between $3.50-$4) to go 40 miles on the Volt, too. So the math no longer favors charging the Volt at a public L2 charging station anymore.

I would guess that many Volt / PiP types would avoid the charging at half the cost per mile. Time is money, and people will pay for convenience. My bet is if the choice is charging the batteries for $2 or buying gas for $4 many will just buy gas to save time.

Personally I'd like to be able to charge at much lower rates since it is only $0.10 (aka 10 cents) per kwh here I'd be happy to see a charge rate of something like twice the electricity cost. As is the blink chargers I've seen charge more like 15 times that rate.

 

[TRONZ]

This is really an unsolvable issue because it is a fundamentally flawed approach to public charging. On this topic I will direct you toward that "other" charge port to the left of the usual one. Do whatever it takes to charge at QC stations. You stop, you charge, you leave. This is the real solution. Go out of your way a bit and pay a bit more than you might like but this is the future of EV's. Personally I consider paying for QC a direct donation and some day (soon) we will laugh about trying to find parking spaces with EVSE's in them.

 

[milesmutt]

Yeah, I can't stand the station hogs either. My wife gets to drive the Leaf to work since she has the longer commute, and has to deal with
occupied free charging stations at her building. Fortunately for her, another co-worker agreed to share the spot with her, as he gets there
before my wife does and usually secures a station.

However, there's this douchebag who owns a gray Volt that parks in a spot, plugs in, and proceeds to leave his car there the entire day. My
wife left a note for both her co-worker and this Volt owner to ask about sharing the stations. Guess who replied and who didn't reply?

It's just plain common sense and consideration to plug in, charge for 4-5 hours max, and then GTFO when you're done!

 

[eclecticflower]

It's just plain common sense and consideration to plug in, charge for 4-5 hours max, and then GTFO when you're done!

And therein lies the problem. Never assume every plug-in driver was born with common sense and courtesy. Yes, it's absolutely the right thing to do to move your car when the charge is completed or you have enough charge to get you to your next destination. It's the height of rudeness to treat a charging space as your own personal parking spot. People don't leave their cars parked at the gas pump until the end of the day...that would most likely get them towed. EV charging spaces should be marked to indicate they're for EV parking while charging only, with additional signage noting fines and/or towing will be incurred by cars parked for longer than 15-20 minutes post-charge completion. Consequence for non-compliance is a motivator for many an abuser.

 

[apvbguy]

And therein lies the problem. Never assume every plug-in driver was born with common sense and courtesy. Yes, it's absolutely the right thing to do to move your car when the charge is completed or you have enough charge to get you to your next destination. It's the height of rudeness to treat a charging space as your own personal parking spot.

the flaw in your assessment of rudeness is flawed.
for example I go to the local mall and plug in at their charging station, and I go shopping for for an hour or so, get something to eat for about 30 minutes and then go see a movie that runs about 2 hours my total time spent in the mall could be around 5 hours however my charge was completed in 3.5 hours.

does my occupying the spot with the charger for 90 minutes or so turn me into someone who lacks common sense or lacks courtesy?

would it really be the height of rudeness occupying that spot for X amount of time past my charging needs?
am I really treating that parking place and charging station as my own personal property?

I agree that people who camp out in front of a charging station at places like work and are not using the charging station at all are a problem but your scenario and rant is just way over the top.

 

[LEAFfan]

And therein lies the problem. Never assume every plug-in driver was born with common sense and courtesy. Yes, it's absolutely the right thing to do to move your car when the charge is completed or you have enough charge to get you to your next destination. It's the height of rudeness to treat a charging space as your own personal parking spot.

the flaw in your assessment of rudeness is flawed.
for example I go to the local mall and plug in at their charging station, and I go shopping for for an hour or so, get something to eat for about 30 minutes and then go see a movie that runs about 2 hours my total time spent in the mall could be around 5 hours however my charge was completed in 3.5 hours.

does my occupying the spot with the charger for 90 minutes or so turn me into someone who lacks common sense or lacks courtesy?

would it really be the height of rudeness occupying that spot for X amount of time past my charging needs?
am I really treating that parking place and charging station as my own personal property?

I agree that people who camp out in front of a charging station at places like work and are not using the charging station at all are a problem but your scenario and rant is just way over the top.

Yes on all your questions. You can get a text message when it is done, and then you should move it so someone else can use it. Otherwise it is selfish and rude behavior, not to mention laziness to go and move it. Your leaving it there for 5 hours is way over the top.

 

[eclecticflower]

And therein lies the problem. Never assume every plug-in driver was born with common sense and courtesy. Yes, it's absolutely the right thing to do to move your car when the charge is completed or you have enough charge to get you to your next destination. It's the height of rudeness to treat a charging space as your own personal parking spot.

the flaw in your assessment of rudeness is flawed. That my assessment is flawed is merely your opinion.
for example I go to the local mall and plug in at their charging station, and I go shopping for for an hour or so, get something to eat for about 30 minutes and then go see a movie that runs about 2 hours my total time spent in the mall could be around 5 hours however my charge was completed in 3.5 hours. does my occupying the spot with the charger for 90 minutes or so turn me into someone who lacks common sense or lacks courtesy? YES. You would be unnecessarily camped for an hour and a half beyond your needs and blocking someone who may need a charge from using the EVSE. If you're leisurely enjoying the mall, it would be a courtesy to move your car, once charged.

would it really be the height of rudeness occupying that spot for X amount of time past my charging needs? YES. It's not your parking space; it's a charging space.
am I really treating that parking place and charging station as my own personal property? YES, pretty much. If you've finished charging, you are being inconsiderate to the next guy by not vacating the space, and in doing so, have similarly appropriated the space as your own.

I agree that people who camp out in front of a charging station at places like work and are not using the charging station at all are a problem but your scenario and rant is just way over the top. No, not ranting, just stating what I thought should be obvious and what I (and probably many others on MNL) believe should occur to resolve the problem. From the way you describe your behavior using EVSEs, it's apparent that the concept of common courtesy is beyond your grasp.

My comments/opinion in red. Here's hoping for enlightenment.

 

[adric22]

My comments/opinion in red. Here's hoping for enlightenment.

As to the argument between you and Leaffan I would say there is one considerably important variable that is being left out of this discussion. The question is, are there other charging stations in the same parking lot that are available for use? I mean, if I pull into a place and plug in and there are 3 additional stations that are not in use, I think I'm going to be unconcerned about making a trip back out to move the car. However, if they are all full and I suspect there are others waiting for the spot, then it would be considerate to go move the car.

 

[RegGuheert]

FWIW, airports are a big exception to all of these issues, IMO. How can one be expected to move their car if they are in another state or country? I still think full-featured L1 EVSEs at airports make a lot of sense so that more of them can be deployed on the same-size power system.

 

[eclecticflower]

My comments/opinion in red. Here's hoping for enlightenment.

As to the argument between you and Leaffan I would say there is one considerably important variable that is being left out of this discussion. The question is, are there other charging stations in the same parking lot that are available for use? I mean, if I pull into a place and plug in and there are 3 additional stations that are not in use, I think I'm going to be unconcerned about making a trip back out to move the car. However, if they are all full and I suspect there are others waiting for the spot, then it would be considerate to go move the car.

I'm responding to by apvbguy, not arguing with leaffan. I understand your point of view, however, one must take into consideration that whether there are multiples or single units, etiquette isn't subjective when it comes to common courtesy. There are no multiple charging sites within my area or in many other areas. The scenarios this poster described and his point of view about them demonstrate an arrogant lack of courtesy to others' needs, plus entitlement issues. Just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[vsiev]

My comments/opinion in red. Here's hoping for enlightenment.

As to the argument between you and Leaffan I would say there is one considerably important variable that is being left out of this discussion. The question is, are there other charging stations in the same parking lot that are available for use? I mean, if I pull into a place and plug in and there are 3 additional stations that are not in use, I think I'm going to be unconcerned about making a trip back out to move the car. However, if they are all full and I suspect there are others waiting for the spot, then it would be considerate to go move the car.

But how do you know if the spots are filled up while you are away and there are others waiting (i.e. "rush hour charging"). Without waiting in the car or coming back to check, you wouldn't know for sure if there were free stations available or if all of them are taken. Regardless, it would be best to be concerned like it's a metered parking spot and move it when the time's up.

 

[milesmutt]

it would be best to be concerned like it's a metered parking spot and move it when the time's up.

Precisely. Just treat it as if there's someone who's gonna need to charge while you're not there.