240v question

[fogdog]

I'm feeling really dumb about asking this question, but not finding the answer anywhere.

If I have an electrician come to install a 240v outlet (we already have 240 to the house for the dryer, just need an outlet closer to the car), can I then just plug the car into the outlet and it will charge at 240? Or, do I need to also purchase a charger in order to charge at 240?

Currently, I just trickle charge at 120, but with Christmas lights plugged in, have been tripping the breaker leading to some serious range-anxiety-filled days. So, thinking would be good to have the outlet anyway, but not if it also requires shelling out the ~$500 for a new charger.

 

[CRLeafSL]

No, don't just plug the EVSE cord that came with the car into 240v. It will fry it and won't be covered warranty and they can tell. You have to either have your EVSE cord upgraded to 240v through EVSEupgrade.com which is what I did, or you can purchase a 240v EVSE Home charging station and have that installed.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Yep. OP, please also see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. You'd want to either upgrade the stock L1 EVSE via evseupgrade.com OR buy a 240 volt capable L2 EVSE. Do NOT attempt to feed 240 volts into the stock L1 120 volt EVSE. It may work for a little bit, before being damaged. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=301505#p301505" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

For level 1 and 2 AC charging, the charger's on-board the car.

Nissan published NTB11-109 on identifying damage caused by feeding too high a voltage into the stock L1 EVSE. Download it yourself with a free account, if you don't believe us at http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/Knowledgebase.html?s=&catid=652&filter=&sort=d&page=1&pp=10&keyid=1124#.VJjEUc8A8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[fogdog]

Thank you both for the informative answers (and not making me feel any dumber).
CRLeafSL - Do you find that charging at 240 with the upgraded EVSE was worth it? Assuming you had to pay something to get a 240v outlet plus the cost of upgrading the EVSE.
Generally, does this setup provide similar charging as purchasing an L2 charging unit? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, what is the benefit to paying what looks like ~$300 more for the charging unit?

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
What model year of Leaf do you have? Which trim level of Leaf did you get? If you got the S, did you get the "charge package"?

From looking at the choices at http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=index&cPath=1&zenid=083fp1oeo73mjaf655u3iag2u0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, their max outputs are only 16 or 20 amps.

If you had a '13+ Leaf SV or SL or '13+ S w/charge package, you have a 6 kW on-board charger. A 16 or 20 amp (at 208/240 volts) EVSE would be a bottleneck. You'd need a 30 amp EVSE to charge at full (AC charging) speeds. (20 amps * 240 volts = 4800 watts = 4.8 kW) 30 amp 208/240 volt EVSEs are commonly available.

FWIW, I mostly charge at work on L2 and sometimes L1, because it's free. On weekends and when I'm not working, I sometimes use public free charging and charge at 120 volts at home.

BTW, if you care, my saga w/qualifying for a "free" L2 EVSE (presumably a 30 amp Aerovironment one, since that's all they sold at the time) is at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=554&p=8264&hilit=load+center#p8264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

One advantage of charging at higher wattages (via 208/240 volt EVSE) is that charging is more efficient. Less energy is thrown away than at 120 volts. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155519#p155519" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[fogdog]

I have a 2015 SL.

Because my commute is only 25 miles round-trip, I have been doing just fine plugging in every other or every 2 days and trickle charging overnight. The Christmas lights really threw off the routine, though, and I thought it could be worth upgrading to prevent future issues.

 

[smkettner]

Get the upgrade and plug into the dryer outlet.
Yes it is worth it, every penny.

 

[nedfunnell]

Thank you both for the informative answers (and not making me feel any dumber).
CRLeafSL - Do you find that charging at 240 with the upgraded EVSE was worth it? Assuming you had to pay something to get a 240v outlet plus the cost of upgrading the EVSE.
Generally, does this setup provide similar charging as purchasing an L2 charging unit? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, what is the benefit to paying what looks like ~$300 more for the charging unit?

I'll say what cwerdna is saying in another way:

Plugged into a normal outlet with the car's stock "charger" (EVSE) is called L1 charging. You're soaking up 1.44 kW of power. It'll take about 18 hours to fill the car.

Plugging into a 240v outlet is called L2 charging, and you need a different EVSE or to upgrade your current one. L2 charging can happen with different current levels, but even the lowest common rate (16A) gets you 3.8 kW of power, more than double what you get right now. It could fill the car in about 6-7 hours.

If you've been getting by with L1, you'll do great with L2 at any rate. If your car has a 6kW charger, (edit: it does) you can use even faster rates, up to 30A, which can fill the car in just a couple hours. I know a lot of people love having L2 charging at home, especially if they have a 6kW charger, since it means it's possible to use the car for errands even if you commute, since the car can regain miles very quickly. L2 also makes it possible to preheat or precool the car while it's still plugged in and save more battery power.

In any case, you will need a different outlet and EVSE. What I'd recommend is having an electrician install a 240v/50A circuit with an outlet called a NEMA 14-50. You can plug any EVSE into that with the correct adapter. For an EVSE, what cwerdna recommended with EVSEupgrade is a great option, because it is inexpensive and also portable. You can take it with you and charge at L2 rates anywhere you can find a 220V outlet, with the correct adapter.

Good luck, let us know if you have more questions!

 

[fogdog]

In any case, you will need a different outlet and EVSE. What I'd recommend is having an electrician install a 240v/50A circuit with an outlet called a NEMA 14-50. You can plug any EVSE into that with the correct adapter. For an EVSE, what cwerdna recommended with EVSEupgrade is a great option, because it is inexpensive and also portable. You can take it with you and charge at L2 rates anywhere you can find a 220V outlet, with the correct adapter.

This is great and exactly what I will tell the electrician when he shows up tomorrow to provide an estimate.
Thanks!

 

[CRLeafSL]

To the OP, yes getting mine upgraded to Level 2 charging through EVSEupgrade was worth every penny. I'm comfortable with electricity (I'm not an electrician, but I do know basic household wiring) so I purchased the items I needed and put in a 240v outlet myself. I don't recommend this unless you know what your doing, but there really isn't much to it. So the cost of the outlet for me was minimal. I think my upgrade through EVSEupgrade was right around $300 cause I did purchase the adapter to plug into a standard 110v outlet with my upgrade and my outlet and wiring, box, etc ran me like $50 roughly. In my case that's about half of the cost of a home charging station, but I didn't hire an electrician so I saved that cost.

 

[nedfunnell]

In any case, you will need a different outlet and EVSE. What I'd recommend is having an electrician install a 240v/50A circuit with an outlet called a NEMA 14-50. You can plug any EVSE into that with the correct adapter. For an EVSE, what cwerdna recommended with EVSEupgrade is a great option, because it is inexpensive and also portable. You can take it with you and charge at L2 rates anywhere you can find a 220V outlet, with the correct adapter.

This is great and exactly what I will tell the electrician when he shows up tomorrow to provide an estimate.
Thanks!

You're welcome!

He may be curious why you need that size of outlet. It is 'overkill', surely, but the advantage is that for a really marginal added cost over a smaller-capacity outlet, you will be 'future proof' if some EV you own someday is much more power hungry than the LEAF. Even a completely empty Tesla Model S with the 85kWH battery could recharge from that overnight. If you really want to save $$, you could ask him to install a NEMA L6-30, but the difference in cost is probably really small unless the outlet location has to be really far from your breaker box.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'd get several sub-estimates, as many electricians will likely charge substantially more for a 50 amp circuit than for a 30 amp one. The components don't cost a lot more (although the cable IS more), but that isn't always how pricing works. If you aren't dreaming of driving a Tesla or RAV-4 EV, a 30 or 40 amp (itself more than you need) 240 volt circuit with outlet is all you need.

 

[TimLee]

...Currently, I just trickle charge at 120, but with Christmas lights plugged in, have been tripping the breaker leading to some serious range-anxiety-filled days. ...

Stop doing that :shock:
You have been lucky so far.
While the electrician is there have them put in a proper dedicated use 120 volt circuit with a high grade outlet in case you need to use the 120 volt EVSE.

As I have advised many people considering use of 120V EVSE that comes with the LEAF and other plug in vehicles:

A repeat of my input from previous questions on 120 V EVSE use:
Note that Nissan recommends the 120V EVSE for limited emergency use only.
Some people have used it for a long time without problems yet, but in general that is a bad idea unless you have a newly properly installed dedicated circuit with high grade receptacle using properly tightened screw connections.

Previous info from another thread:

...
Trickle charging should be safe, though, right? I wouldn't necessarily need to have the circuit certified for it or anything, should I? If I were to go to a friend's house, would I be safe plugging into their outlet?

How safe 120V charging is depends on how lucky you are.
Very few garages have the correct properly installed high quality single outlet supplied by a single breaker.
Code only allows using 80% of the circuit rating for a long term continuous load.
So on a 15 amp circuit nothing else should be on the same circuit while the car is charging.
And a lot of 120V gets put in poorly using push in connections.
One person had a bad fire most likely from staples that had damaged the cable in the wall.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&hilit=+fire#p352567" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[fogdog]

um, thanks, i guess. now i am terrified to plug in my car!
although i suppose that erases any doubts about whether I would do any electric work at all.

 

[patrick0101]

fogdog, you can get a home charging station at Home Depot or Lowe's and have the electrician install it for you. Just search for "evse" or "level 2 evse" and you'll see that they options for $488+. Having a dedicated EVSE in your garage is far more convenient than schlepping the portable unit in and out of the hatchback every other day, IMHO.

I would still get the EVSEUpgrade option. You can charge up more than twice as fast. This is great if you want to charge up from a campground RV outlet or from your in-law's dryer outlet.

 

[nedfunnell]

um, thanks, i guess. now i am terrified to plug in my car!
although i suppose that erases any doubts about whether I would do any electric work at all.

Fogdog, you'll find a number of opinions on any given internet venue. Here' the spectrum ranges from people who cut up electrical cords and stick bare copper electrodes into any outlet that will fit to people so terrified of electricity, they won't plug their car into any outlet not installed and blessed by Saint Ampere himself, the patron saint of electricity.

While accidents do happen, and caution is always a wise approach, electrical systems in home have been installed and inspected to comply with the national electric code and Nissan has built their EVSE to provide the maximum possible safety. Fearmongering over plugging one's car in doesn't help anybody. Sure, a dedicated outlet is ideal, but not strictly necessary. There are literally thousands of EV drivers charging only with the L1 EVSE and the news is not flooded with stories of EV drivers burning their homes down. Electrical systems are designed for safety, and function as installed to protect themselves the vast, overwhelming majority of the time. A breaker tripping is a normal response to too much current being drawn, and the system functioning as designed. It's not a felony or a sin. What it is, though, is a protective action which should tell you not to do that again, and to fix whatever it was before resetting the breaker. So don't plug your car in while the Christmas lights are on.

It's easy for people to swoop in with "Thou shalt not in the name of safety" directives, because safety is such a highly held value in our culture, and anybody speaking against safety can be easily made into a pariah. That doesn't mean that the safest thing to do is always best. We're not all wrapped up in bubble wrap in bomb shelters, after all. Prudent caution stemming from understanding of the risks at hand is the best course of action. Unreasonable fear of something one doesn't understand only drives regression.

Do get a dedicated outlet- a 240v one, and use that to charge your car with whatever EVSE you settle on. Either the 14-50 or the L6-30 will fit your current needs, but the 14-50 shouldn't cost much more from an honest electrician and will prevent needing to do the work again down the road if EVs 10 years from now have bigger capacity, as everyone predicts.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Currently, I just trickle charge at 120, but with Christmas lights plugged in, have been tripping the breaker leading to some serious range-anxiety-filled days.

This means you have too much on this circuit. Is there another outlet you can use for now? One that has nothing else using the circuit?

 

[TimLee]

um, thanks, i guess. now i am terrified to plug in my car!

It was not my intent to terrify
It was to provide useful information.

Most people don't recognize some of the poor practices the National Electric Code allows.
It allows multiple outlets on a single breaker and for most 120 volt devices that is OK.
But it isn't OK for the EVSE, refrigerators, freezers, air compressors, space heaters, microwave ovens, etc.

You are doing the correct thing to look at putting in a level 2 EVSE.
That is your better choice.
But the differential cost for electrician to put in a dedicated preferably 20 amp circuit in the garage with a high quality hospital grade outlet at the same time may not be much.
If you wanted or needed to delay the level 2 EVSE purchase that would allow you to use the 120 volt EVSE in the interim.

 

[Deleted member 13974]

Currently, I just trickle charge at 120, but with Christmas lights plugged in, have been tripping the breaker leading to some serious range-anxiety-filled days.

This means you have too much on this circuit. Is there another outlet you can use for now? One that has nothing else using the circuit?

um, thanks, i guess. now i am terrified to plug in my car!

It was not my intent to terrify
It was to provide useful information.

Don't be terrified, but remove the danger ASAP -- if Christmas lights are tripping a breaker when the car is plugged in, that means they're on the same breaker, and you really shouldn't be doing that. The EVSE takes about all the current a 15-amp branch circuit can give it, don't use it with anything else on that circuit, certainly not a continuous load like Christmas lights. Repeated breaker tripping means you're repeatedly pushing or exceeding the limits of the branch circuit wiring, which can lead to fire. Until you get a L2 installed, move the lights to a different branch circuit. At a minimum, use timers on both the lights and the car so they are not in use simultaneously. Seriously, do that today.

 

[davewill]

... Don't be terrified, but remove the danger ASAP -- if Christmas lights are tripping a breaker when the car is plugged in, that means they're on the same breaker, and you really shouldn't be doing that. The EVSE takes about all the current a 15-amp branch circuit can give it, don't use it with anything else on that circuit, certainly not a continuous load like Christmas lights. Repeated breaker tripping means you're repeatedly pushing or exceeding the limits of the branch circuit wiring, which can lead to fire. Until you get a L2 installed, move the lights to a different branch circuit. At a minimum, use timers on both the lights and the car so they are not in use simultaneously. Seriously, do that today.

Exactly. A breaker tripping is a warning. It means that if the breaker hadn't worked, you might have had a fire. You want to correct the situation ASAP. In this case, it probably means to move the XMAS lights to another circuit...but find out what else is on the circuit you're plugging the car into. Just because you weren't tripping the breaker before doesn't mean that you weren't close to overloading the circuit. Do that by turning the breaker off, and finding out exactly which outlets or lights stop working. If the car isn't by itself on the circuit, try really hard to make it so that it is. If you can't, then try to set things up so that when the car is charging, nothing else is on.

As far as getting L2 charging, it will likely make a world of difference. With 120v charging, it takes so long to charge that you can't fully recharge an empty car during a normal sleeping period. That means the total miles you can drive is limited even more that it is by the LEAF's battery size. Also, with L2 it's also possible to run the battery down in the morning and charge it back up in time to do more in the evening. I've even managed to come home from work, and add a couple of hours of charge and be ready to go out at night. L1 charging can't charge fast enough to make that viable. BTW, the upgrade is a great solution, but your car can charge even faster than the upgrade allows. Up to 6.0kW, where the upgrade tops out at 4.8kW. Also, it can be a nuisance to use the portable at home if you also want to take it with you all the time. You should look at the hang on the wall options as well, they'll let you charge at 6kW...but the upgrade is hard to beat on a price/performance basis.