2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh SV/SL, 24 kWh S

[GetOffYourGas]

A CVT provides very little benefit to A BEV, since motor efficiency is very high over a large RPM range.

I'm not sure this is true. I haven't looked into the Leaf's motor, but from what I remember from school, an electric motor's efficiency drops off at higher RPMs. Its torque/power curves are remarkably flat, maybe that's what you're thinking of?

Case in point: both the Model S and the Volt get improved efficiency at high speeds by using a different gear ratio (in both cases, through different motors with a different, but fixed, gear ratio).

 

[evnow]

The Leaf's new 30 kwh battery may arrive as early as August. The battery should achieve an EPA-rated range of about 125 miles on a full charge, the source said. That compares with an EPA-rated range of 84 miles for the current battery.

The real-world range of the new battery, however, is expected to be closer to 105 to 110 miles, the source said. ...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150629/OEM06/306299980/leaf-to-get-a-big-boost-in-driving-range

This 125 miles sounds implausible.

If they are indeed using 30 kWh as the useable range - it would be weird to use 24 kWh as the S model capacity - but I guess anything is possible in marketing speak.

My guess would be
- 125 EPA rating is wrong, may be it is some other rating. This would explain why "105 to 110 miles" of real world range.
- 30 kWh is indeed the useable capacity and full capacity is 36 kWh. In this case may be even 24 kWh is useable and we may see a boost in the range of S model as well. S would be 100 miles and SV/SL, 125 miles

 

[DanCar]

... may be even 24 kWh is useable and we may see a boost in the range of S model as well. S would be 100 miles and SV/SL, 125 miles

That would be my guess. Perhaps they all have the same battery and the 24kWh is just more software limited.

 

[tkdbrusco]

My 2015 S has when at its peak (292 Gids) would show 22.6 kwh of usable capacity. Right now (with 14K miles and a best recent reading of 286 Gids, it shows 22.17 kwh. So if there is more capacity in the 24kwh pack, it is being freed up to avoid visible degradation, sort of like what a Chevy Volt does. My SOH readings now indicate 92%, compared to the 98% or so when it was new, so there could be some of this going on.

 

[minispeed]

The Leaf's new 30 kwh battery may arrive as early as August. The battery should achieve an EPA-rated range of about 125 miles on a full charge, the source said. That compares with an EPA-rated range of 84 miles for the current battery.

The real-world range of the new battery, however, is expected to be closer to 105 to 110 miles, the source said. ...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150629/OEM06/306299980/leaf-to-get-a-big-boost-in-driving-range

This 125 miles sounds implausible.

If they are indeed using 30 kWh as the useable range - it would be weird to use 24 kWh as the S model capacity - but I guess anything is possible in marketing speak.

My guess would be
- 125 EPA rating is wrong, may be it is some other rating. This would explain why "105 to 110 miles" of real world range.
- 30 kWh is indeed the useable capacity and full capacity is 36 kWh. In this case may be even 24 kWh is useable and we may see a boost in the range of S model as well. S would be 100 miles and SV/SL, 125 miles

The source said the EPA rated range of about 125.... they are probably talking about the EPA city test not the EPA avg that gets put on the sticker of the car. The same EPA city test that Nissan has previously said the leaf can go 100 miles on. That's 25% more battery and 25% more range. Whoever wrote the article then put in the 84. It didn't say something like "...125 miles compared to the old 84 says our source".

It's unlikely they'd have a full capacity of 36 and usable 30 when the current battery is 22/24. If that's the case then I would guess the current 2015 packs are the same packs that 2016 S's will get and are all software limited as a beta test. Even then that would mean they are software limited at 22 and not 24. Even if they had a usable 24 that would only give them an extra 2 kWr, under the same test conditions that got a 22kWh pack to get 84 miles we would see a usable 24 with only a few miles more.

right now 22.6kWh out of 24, use the same ratio for a 30 and you get 28.25kWh usable. Use the consumption of 84 miles from 22.6 with 28.25 and you get 105 miles.

I think previously someone mentioned it would come with an epa sticker of 102, if the pack is heavier then that sounds about right.


I think there's a few things Nissan can learn/use from the S with a smaller battery. First it will let them gauge the demand for a larger battery at a higher price and second when leaf 2 comes out they can advertise the S version vs the old 84 mile range for a higher % improvement. For example if the first leaf 2 is launched with 150 miles that's 66 more than 84 so the advertising campaign can say 79% improvement in range. If they had to compare it to the new 102 that's only 47% improvement.

 

[evnow]

The source said the EPA rated range of about 125.... they are probably talking about the EPA city test not the EPA avg that gets put on the sticker of the car. The same EPA city test that Nissan has previously said the leaf can go 100 miles on. That's 25% more battery and 25% more range. Whoever wrote the article then put in the 84. It didn't say something like "...125 miles compared to the old 84 says our source".

No one says EPA when they mean just city cycle. If that is the case - there is a big translation error somewhere.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

If they lower the Cd of the 2016 Leaf (similar to the Nismo design), then an EPA 125 mile range is completely possible.

 

[kubel]

If they lower the Cd of the 2016 Leaf (similar to the Nismo design), then an EPA 125 mile range is completely possible.

The 125 mile reference was for the stop-gap 2016 LEAF, not the all-new second generation 2017 model (which is expected to have even more range). 2016 will have the same body, so improvements in drag are unlikely. I don't see them getting 125 miles out of a 30kW pack unless they are "Nissan Miles" (as always, multiply "Nissan Miles" by .8 to convert to actual Miles).

 

[Sublime]

There's definitely some shenanigans. The current LEAF gets about 3.7 mi/kWh based on usable pack capacity and an 84 mile range. Even if the entire 30kWh was usable (which it won't be), they'd need to increase efficiency 12% (which they can't) to hit a rating of 125 miles of range.

 

[minispeed]

The source said the EPA rated range of about 125.... they are probably talking about the EPA city test not the EPA avg that gets put on the sticker of the car. The same EPA city test that Nissan has previously said the leaf can go 100 miles on. That's 25% more battery and 25% more range. Whoever wrote the article then put in the 84. It didn't say something like "...125 miles compared to the old 84 says our source".

No one says EPA when they mean just city cycle. If that is the case - there is a big translation error somewhere.

No one in the real world does, but this isn't the real world, this is a "source" from inside. We've seen many times where business's play world games. The city cycle is an EPA test that they have to rate on so to say it is an EPA rated range is not untrue. To talk about it officially as the "EPA rated range" is deceiving but that didn't happen here.

The only way a 30 kWh pack in a current weight/aero leaf can have any EPA rating of 125 miles is if it is in reference to the city test.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

There's definitely some shenanigans.

Whenever anyone talks about range of a future product, I just assume this is the case

 

[rcyoder]

@DaveinOlyWA: That screenshot is impressive, thank you for posting that here. That's like an official confirmation of the 30kW SV/SL battery - except for availability and cost.

Indeed, that's a thought many might have now. With the $5,500 battery replacement program offered by Nissan, will this 30kW battery also be compatible to older, pre-2016 Leafs? Will there be an adapter kit necessary, even for 2013/2014/2015, just like it is necessary today for replacement with the 2011/2012? In case it is compatible, how much more would it cost to get a 30kW replacement battery instead of a 24kW? (Of course, nobody might know the answers yet, still nothing wrong with Asking Questions. )

I have a 2011 SL, and I'm getting a real world range closer to 50 (on a nice day) than the 75 I was getting when it was new. If I could get a 30 kWh pack upgrade for it, I'd do it in a heartbeat and would probably drive it 'till a self-driving EV was affordable. I need a completely reliable 55 mile range during a cold rainy night here in LA so that I can take a drive that I typically do about once every other week and not trade cars with my wife (she drives a 2013 RAV4-EV - I've driven it 110 miles in the worst conditions that LA can throw at you and still had about 25% charge left).

Well, I guess I'll be patient 'till the end of the Summer before I have to make a choice.

 

[Valdemar]

I have a 2011 SL, and I'm getting a real world range closer to 50 (on a nice day) than the 75 I was getting when it was new. If I could get a 30 kWh pack upgrade for it, I'd do it in a heartbeat and would probably drive it 'till a self-driving EV was affordable
....
Well, I guess I'll be patient 'till the end of the Summer before I have to make a choice.

Is your car down to 8 bars already?

 

[ydnas7]

***Disclaimer***

Don't ask, just read.

2016 LEAF trim levels will break down as follows:

S 24kWh
SV 30kWh
SL 30kWh
Aloha

I'm a little surprised its not expanded to be a 5 trim choice like Sentra or Maxima

S 24kWH, 300gids, 3.3 kw charger, steel wheel
C+ S 24kWH 300 gids, + Chademo + faster 6kw charger, simple alloy wheels
SV 30kWH 400 gids, + Chademo + faster 6kw charger, simple alloy wheels
SR 30kWH 400 gids, + Chademo+ faster 9kw charger, trendy alloy wheels, bose speakers
SL 30kWH 400gids, + Chademo+ faster 9kw chargers, bose speakers, leather

perhaps numbers 2 and 4 are folded back into options.

I also expect some subtle aero improvements (front aero dam, front wheel arch details etc to be pulled forward from the sentra refresh, so maybe 10-15% less aero drag at highway speed

 

[cwerdna]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but someone posted http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20150725-00050175-yom-bus_all. Run it through Google Translate. It mentions 30% range increase and from the Engrish that Google Translate emits

"According to Nissan officials successor leaf does not change almost the weight and size of the lithium ion battery to be mounted. "

 

[Bufordleaf]

So does anyone have any idea when Nissan will officially announce the 2016 Leaf? When will we see confirmation of the specs including battery size and range? It's almost August and we have had info on the 2016 Volt for months now, what gives with Nissan?

 

[DanCar]

... It mentions 30% range increase and from the Engrish that Google Translate emits...

30% increase from 84 miles would be about 109 mile range.

 

[nosuchthing]

Well, I guess I'll be patient 'till the end of the Summer before I have to make a choice.

Even if Nissan gives you the option to install that 30kW battery you're still stuck with the sucky 3.3 on-board charger.

My hunch tells me they won't accommodate the older Leafs with this new battery. They want to sell new cars, not batteries for old cars.

 

[cwerdna]

Well, I guess I'll be patient 'till the end of the Summer before I have to make a choice.

Even if Nissan gives you the option to install that 30kWh battery you're still stuck with the sucky 3.3 on-board charger.

My hunch tells me they won't accommodate the older Leafs with this new battery. They want to sell new cars, not batteries for old cars.

FWP. 30 kWh NOT kW. The charger on the '11 and '12 and '13+ S w/o charge package is a 3.x kW OBC.

I do tend to agree w/the last statement.

 

[Valdemar]

3.3kWh charger works just fine in 98% cases. Yes, there are occasions when you need it but in all honesty over almost 4 years I had more situations when I felt I overstayed at a public charging spot while charging at 3.3kwh than I needed faster L2 charging. While I'd be surprised if the new pack is backwards compatible with older cars it would put whole lot more meaning into an out of pocket pack replacement.