2016 30 kWh Battery data

[DaveinOlyWA]

Leaf Spy is indeed a useful tool to have and I wouldn't want to be without it. That said, the Percent Power Left gauge and knowing your general range is sufficient for most planning. Leaf Spy lets you monitor the last few watts if necessary to complete a trip. But you shouldn't put yourself in that position in the first place. That's like seeing how long you can drive an ICE after the low fuel light comes on. Leaf Spy is most useful as a diagnostic tool to let you see the overall condition of the battery and save you from having to go to the dealer for minor things like remapping the tires after rotations or resetting the door locks.

I did do a level 3 charge yesterday and then did a level 2 charge when I got home, This morning Leaf Spy reported that I'm back up to 363 GIDS 100% health and 79.68 AH. Don't know if it was the level 3 charge or just wonky Nissan sensors and software but I'm a happy camper again.

the ENTIRE value of LEAF Spy is its ability to give you the information you need to plan for every mile of range you have. Leaving 4-5 miles in the tank like Nissan seems to want you to do is not a luxury I have.

 

[johnlocke]

That's really easy for you to say with your like new 30 kWh battery. Let's talk in 5-10 years when you've only got 50% of the original capacity. Though I guess by then you could recommend anyone who need to use the last bit of charge should dump their old LEAF and get cheap used 200 mile EV with a thermal management system so that the battery will actually last.

That's why I waited to buy a 2016 Leaf with a 30 KWH battery. The number of miles I drive daily really precluded the 24 KWH no matter how great a deal I could have gotten. The 24 KWH would have worked for me when new but not after 25% degradation. I expect the new battery to degrade by 25-30% by the time I hit 100,000 miles. If I'm lucky I'll get to 100,000 miles with only 20% loss. If I lose 40% before 100,000 miles (about 7 years), I'll expect Nissan to honor the Warranty and replace the battery. That's another reason I waited! And yes I am planning on buying an off-lease Tesla III after the Leaf. And yes I don't expect the Leaf to be worth squat by then. One reason I bought vs leased was the low residual Nissan offered at the end of the lease. If I'm going to pay for it anyway I might as well own it.

 

[johnlocke]

Back on topic. I just cleared 7500 miles. Battery stats are 78.38 AH 98% SOH and 93.87 Hx. max charge is 356 GIDs. Anyone else with a 30 KWH battery want to post their figures?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

What's the general feedback on the 30kwh? I'm weighing new 30kwh vs used 24kwh... from an end user standpoint I assume it's like the original with an extra 25 miles of range (when new).

 

[Valdemar]

You also get 3 more years and 40000 miles capacity loss warranty coverage, the caveat is the unknown % capacity loss that corresponds to missing 4 bars.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

You also get 3 more years and 40000 miles capacity loss warranty coverage, the caveat is the unknown % capacity loss that corresponds to missing 4 bars.

to add; the real challenge as I see it is life "just before" the warranty exchange. the 30 kwh battery term is much longer so they either got the chemistry right or they will be replacing a lot of packs but the 30 kwh degraded to near replacement is going to be just a bit worse than what I am seeing now in a 24 kwh pack that has held up relatively well after 37,000 miles.

now 25 miles may not seem like much but its actually very significant. obviously not the "all in" answer; at least not at the price they are currently selling for but put 30 kwh in an S trim starting at $30,000 and you will have a pretty good mover there

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

25 miles is huge on a car you didn't feel comfortable driving more than 50 miles. When you factor in all the "margins" it's like getting 50% more range, even though it was only a 25% increase in capacity.

 

[johnlocke]

A 30 KWH battery at Warranty replacement can be assumed to be at 20 KWH capacity. At 3.5mi/KWH that gives you 56 miles till lbw (50 GIDs) and 70 miles till turtle. That's about the same range as the original 2011-2012 models. And that's at 100000 miles or 8 years.

Since the interpretation of a 4 bar loss has been litigated to mean 66.66% and Nissan has not seen fit to change that language in the warranty to be more specific, I bet that the court would enforce that interpretation. Furthermore, Nissan has stated that the battery is expected to retain 80% of it's capacity at 100000 miles or 8 years which brings up a merchantability issue if substantial numbers of vehicles fail to meet that goal. If 5 or 10% fail on that basis, Nissan likely gets a pass on it, but if 25-30% of those batteries fail that metric then Nissan has a problem. If the failures are primarily heat related, Nissan is in an even worse position because that's a known failure mode. Let's all hope Nissan did their homework and that they can meet their stated goals.

 

[apacheguy]

Back on topic. I just cleared 7500 miles. Battery stats are 78.38 AH 98% SOH and 93.87 Hx. max charge is 356 GIDs. Anyone else with a 30 KWH battery want to post their figures?

What did you start out with? 6% loss seems steep for less than 10 K miles.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Back on topic. I just cleared 7500 miles. Battery stats are 78.38 AH 98% SOH and 93.87 Hx. max charge is 356 GIDs. Anyone else with a 30 KWH battery want to post their figures?

What did you start out with? 6% loss seems steep for less than 10 K miles.

how are you getting a 6% loss with a SOH of 98%?

 

[johnlocke]

It's not a 6% loss. I started at 79.45AH, 363 GID's, and 100% SOH. I'm currently at 79.40 AH, 359 GID's, and 99%SOH after several DC fast charges which brought the Battery back up a little. It had been as low as 78.3 AH, 355 GID's, and 98% SOH. I'm currently at 8200 miles after 5 months. The current loss is is just over 1% in GID's. DC fast charges seem to force the battery to rebalance a bit but that's just a guess on my part.. This battery has never seen more than 79.6 AH although I've seen several people reporting over 80 AH. What I haven't seen is anyone reporting more than 363 GID's. I'd like to hear from other owners with 30 KWH batteries as to what their experiences are. Right now I'm a sample of 1. Also I haven't been through the summer yet where the temperature will routinely be 95-105 during the day where I live. The car will normally be back home by Noon so I'm going to cook the battery in any case. Not as bad as Phoenix but close.

 

[apacheguy]

It was my understanding that Hx represents % of original capacity. Can someone please clearly explain the difference between Hx and SOH?

 

[dhanson865]

It was my understanding that Hx represents % of original capacity. Can someone please clearly explain the difference between Hx and SOH?

Hx is an internal number used by the computer to compare vs other readings. It means nothing to you.

SOH% is a dumbed down scaled to 100% = good number for you to read.

Very likely they are the same number just that SOH is scaled differently (think Fahrenheit vs Celsius).

 

[Turbo3]

It was my understanding that Hx represents % of original capacity. Can someone please clearly explain the difference between Hx and SOH?

Hx is related to the internal resistance of the battery but in an inverse way. The higher the internal resistance the more energy is wasted inside the battery cells as heat. As the batteries age the internal resistance will increase and the Hx value will decrease. Hx decreases at a faster rate than SOH%. For example my SOH is 71% and my Hx is 50.65.

 

[Valdemar]

Where does the name Hx come from? Is this something that gets sent over CAN?

 

[Turbo3]

Where does the name Hx come from? Is this something that gets sent over CAN?

Hx is a made up name by one of the CAN experts here in the community that originally found it. The H would stand for Health. We have no idea what Nissan calls it. It must be requested from the Leaf BMS just like the SOC value. It does not show up in a normal CAN frame sent out at a regular rate.

 

[TimLee]

It was my understanding that Hx represents % of original capacity. Can someone please clearly explain the difference between Hx and SOH?

Hx is related to the internal resistance of the battery but in an inverse way. The higher the internal resistance the more energy is wasted inside the battery cells as heat. As the batteries age the internal resistance will increase and the Hx value will decrease. Hx decreases at a faster rate than SOH%. For example my SOH is 71% and my Hx is 50.65.

... What is Hx ? ...

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=17482.
As battery condition degrades the pack resistance increases, or more technically correct the electrical specific conductance (ESC) decreases.
TickTock generated a very good curve fit using ESC, and SOH which appears to be proportional to AHr capacity, and temperature.

SOH is the term the Canbuss invetigators came up with for another BMS value.
Status of Health.
It is not exactly the pack percentage of capacity remaining.
But it does stay close to that calculation of curent AHr capacity divided by original AHr capacity.
It is probably some calculated % from other pack measurements like Hx is.

But I have not seen where someone tracked all the values and reverse engineered the formula.

Nissan did not make this easy.
They have released no information.
Not even in the service manuals for the technicians servicing the car.
You don't want the technicians to know too much

 

[babonbangke]

Back on topic. I just cleared 7500 miles. Battery stats are 78.38 AH 98% SOH and 93.87 Hx. max charge is 356 GIDs. Anyone else with a 30 KWH battery want to post their figures?

Here's stat at max charge the one time it was charged to full (IIRC, dash SOC shows 99%)
5/7/2016, 73.01 AHr, 91% SOH, 87.93 Hx, The charge was at 330 GIDs, at 1076 miles.

My best guess is the BMS doesn't know what the battery pack is capable of since it was almost never charged to full, and has never hit LBW either. Lowest we got it to was at 28% SOC according to the dash (back before I got the LeafSpy).

 

[babonbangke]

On another note, someone asked about rapid charge. Just charged from 21% to 94% at an NRG station in a half hour. 106 amps through the entire half hour. No current tapering at all. It did raise the battery temperature by 20 degrees F. though. Probably something I don't want to do on a regular basis.

I'm actually glad to hear that tapering doesn't occur too early on the 30kWh battery. I might actually be able to charge up to 80% in reasonable amount of time with it. Most of the charging graph I've seen on older leafs showed tapering beginning much earlier...

 

[johnlocke]

Note on care and feeding of the 30 KWH battery. I've found that fast charging occasionally seems to help restore the battery. Or it might be that when I fast charge, I normally run the battery down to below 30%. In either case i'm back up to 360-361 GIDs after a full charge. This bodes a lot better for the life of the battery. I'm currently at 8600 miles after 5 months. Normally I charge at home at level 2 every day with the battery down to 43-47% after running errands.

Fast charging at an NRG charger from 20-30% to 93-95% takes 30 min or less so there's no problem getting a good charge. Getting up to 90% is fast but then above that charging tapers off so the last 5-10 min is at reduced rates.