2016 30 kWh Battery data

[johnlocke]

I made an extra effort today to run the battery down. Ended up at 10% charge (39 GIDs) and 94 miles. Low battery warning was at 12% (46 GIDs). I also noted that the cell voltage was 3.52V at 10%. When I had the battery down to 3% the other day the cell voltage was 3.30V. It looks like 10% charge is right at the knee of the discharge curve. That may be why Nissan expects the battery to last longer. Anybody know what the cell voltages are on the old batteries at the same discharge levels? I've plotted the discharge curve and it looks fairly linear between 100% and 10% with a distinct falloff below 10%

I wonder if I didn't read my notes wrong the other day when I stated that low battery warning was at 17% It might have been at two bars remaining rather low battery warning although I thought that low battery warning was supposed to be at 2 bars left. In any case today I didn't get a low battery warning until I was below 13% and I was watching for it from the time I hit 20% on.

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

[GregH]

LBW at 46 Gids? Interesting..
I seem to recall cell voltages in my 2012 over 3.6 as low as 35-40 Gids remaining.. If not lower.
Unlike other cells I've used where 3.6 might still be 40% SOC, the Nissan cells seem to be closer to 10% SOC at 3.6v. Nice efficiency if you can sustain a higher voltage longer..

Switching gears slghtly, have any of you lucky 30kWh folks tried an NRG 30min Chademo charge starting at a low (LBW-ish) SOC?

I'd be curious how much charge/range you net in 30min. I would imagine it's dramatically more than my weak (10 bar), high impedance 2012 pack..

 

[ebuonaccor]

I pulled into the NRG EVGO station with the VLBW on (the only time I have hit VLBW) and my 2016 SV was up to 90% by the time I left. I think I may have been there a bit over 30 minutes and the EVGO station near me recently changed from a 30 minute charge limit to allowing up to 45 minutes.

 

[johnlocke]

Is anyone getting more than 363 GIDs to a full charge? I've noticed that at least one person showed 82 AH on their chart but still only 363 GIDs at full charge. I normally show 78.8 - 79.5 AH but still get 363 GIDs at full charge. It would interesting to know if 363 GIDs is a max value since I've seen it several places.

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

Is anyone getting more than 363 GIDs to a full charge? I've noticed that at least one person showed 82 AH on their chart but still only 363 GIDs at full charge. I normally show 78.8 - 79.5 AH but still get 363 GIDs at full charge. It would interesting to know if 363 GIDs is a max value since I've seen it several places.

GIDs and Ahr are not directly related from what I've seen.

I had max of 292 GIDs but only 63 Ahr when I've seen others with 66 Ahr but 28X GIDs.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Is anyone getting more than 363 GIDs to a full charge? I've noticed that at least one person showed 82 AH on their chart but still only 363 GIDs at full charge. I normally show 78.8 - 79.5 AH but still get 363 GIDs at full charge. It would interesting to know if 363 GIDs is a max value since I've seen it several places.

GIDs and Ahr are not directly related from what I've seen.

I had max of 292 GIDs but only 63 Ahr when I've seen others with 66 Ahr but 28X GIDs.

they are close but GIDs go up with better pack balance (but then again since you really can't measure pack balance...) while ahr will as well but seems to respond slower.

 

[webfootguy]

I picked up a 2016 SL on 3/25/2016 (should get me to a Tesla Model 3).

Here is the first (near) full charge when I got it home:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I picked up a 2016 SL on 3/25/2016 (should get me to a Tesla Model 3).

Here is the first (near) full charge when I got it home:

100% SOH but 95% Hx? weird....

 

[johnlocke]

Update. After 4 months and 6800 miles the battery no longer charges to 363 GIDS. Instead of 361-363 GIDS on a normal basis, I'm seeing 358-360 GIDS instead. Don't know if it's the warmer weather or just battery aging. I need to see how the summer goes. I may try to do a fast DC charge in the next couple of days to see if that helps restore the battery. I haven't fast charged the car since I first got it. It gets a level 2 charge every day after I get home (typically from 40-45%).

Anyone else driving enough to see any deterioration of the battery? I've got a 55-60 mi. daily drive. Any other long distance commuters out there?

 

[dhanson865]

Update. After 4 months and 6800 miles the battery no longer charges to 363 GIDS. Instead of 361-363 GIDS on a normal basis, I'm seeing 358-360 GIDS instead. Don't know if it's the warmer weather or just battery aging. I need to see how the summer goes. I may try to do a fast DC charge in the next couple of days to see if that helps restore the battery. I haven't fast charged the car since I first got it. It gets a level 2 charge every day after I get home (typically from 40-45%).

Anyone else driving enough to see any deterioration of the battery? I've got a 55-60 mi. daily drive. Any other long distance commuters out there?

Can you update your profile and let us know what part of the world you are seeing that degradation in? City, State, country?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Update. After 4 months and 6800 miles the battery no longer charges to 363 GIDS. Instead of 361-363 GIDS on a normal basis, I'm seeing 358-360 GIDS instead. Don't know if it's the warmer weather or just battery aging. I need to see how the summer goes. I may try to do a fast DC charge in the next couple of days to see if that helps restore the battery. I haven't fast charged the car since I first got it. It gets a level 2 charge every day after I get home (typically from 40-45%).

Anyone else driving enough to see any deterioration of the battery? I've got a 55-60 mi. daily drive. Any other long distance commuters out there?

are you doing a full charge every night? because it sounds to me you have more a bit of unbalance, temperature adjustments, etc than degradation.

LEAF Spy only reads Nissan instrumentation which is not accurate enough to provide anything other than a general picture of overall battery health. a few GIDs here and there is nothing. I have 20 point swings a YEAR apart....

 

[tkdbrusco]

If its anything like the 2015 Lizard (no reason it would be) the data seems to drop in the winter and pick back up in the summer.

My rough numbers for my 2015

MFG (4/14)
New (8/14)- 292 Gids
Lowest for its first winter (1/15) - 273
Highest for its first Summer (with me) (7/15) - 288
Lowest for its second winter (1/16) - 263
Highest as we approach our second summer (4/16) - 277

I now have 28K miles on it and expect that I may break 280 for my high this summer.

All in all a lot of fluctuation but pretty good all things considered.

 

[johnlocke]

I'm in San Diego East County. Summer temps out here are routinely over 100. Great for solar hot water but not so good for my PV array or I suspect for the Leaf. It's good to know that the Nissan sensors aren't that accurate. I would really like to have this battery last for 140000 miles or so. If the data from the Leaf is shaky, I'll just have to see how it does over the summer. Worst case would be if I just make it past the warranty before the battery drops that fourth bar. A replacement under warranty would be great as I'm sure that the second battery would get me past 140K. Since this is a new variant of the battery i feel like a bit of a guinea pig. Knowing that the older battery has considerable swings gives me some hope. I also hope that Nissan wasn't blowing smoke about 80% battery capacity at 100,000 miles.

On another note, someone asked about rapid charge. Just charged from 21% to 94% at an NRG station in a half hour. 106 amps through the entire half hour. No current tapering at all. It did raise the battery temperature by 20 degrees F. though. Probably something I don't want to do on a regular basis.

 

[Valdemar]

It's been discussed and we don't know what capacity bars represent on the 30Kwh Leafs. It's unlikely but possible Nissan has programed the capacity gauge to drop 4 bars after say 50% capacity loss, in which case it'll be nearly impossible to trigger capacity warranty given the qualifying time and mileage limits.

 

[johnlocke]

Nissan has been really tight lipped about what a 3 bar loss is. That just may come back to bite them in the ass. Left with no specific definition, the courts might use the "reasonable person" theory to define a 3 bar loss as 75% capacity and a 4 bar loss as 66% capacity. The fact that Kia has defined their warranty limit at 70% could reinforce that view. The fact that the battery power gauge is linear and that the capacity gauge layout mimics the power gauge layout (12 segments for each) would also lead one to believe that the capacity loss shown would be linear as well. I bet a good lawyer could find a class action suit here if Nissan deviates too far from from that.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Assuming it every becomes a problem with the newer cars, they will have to define it. I feel like arbitrary bars with unknown targets is akin to trading a a medieval marketplace before a system of weights and measures. Actually I bet that was more accurate.

 

[lorenfb]

LEAF Spy only reads Nissan instrumentation which is not accurate enough to provide anything other than a general picture of overall battery health. a few GIDs here and there is nothing. I have 20 point swings a YEAR apart....

Not true, owning a Leaf without having LeafSpy is like owning a late model ICEV without an OBDII scanner
and driving it without a gas gauge, i.e. driving an BEV without an Ahr measurement is like driving an ICEV with
a shrinking gas tank. My knowing accurately what my battery Ahr is critical to planning frequent daily
drives over 100 miles and reaching QCs to return home.

Bottomline: Personally, without access to a BEV's battery data as provided by LeafSpy, it's questionable
whether I'd drive another BEV, especially when exceeding its range in a daily drive.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

LEAF Spy only reads Nissan instrumentation which is not accurate enough to provide anything other than a general picture of overall battery health. a few GIDs here and there is nothing. I have 20 point swings a YEAR apart....

Not true, owning a Leaf without having LeafSpy is like owning a late model ICEV without an OBDII scanner
and driving it without a gas gauge, i.e. driving an BEV without an Ahr measurement is like driving an ICEV with
a shrinking gas tank. My knowing accurately what my battery Ahr is critical to planning frequent daily
drives over 100 miles and reaching QCs to return home.

Bottomline: Personally, without access to a BEV's battery data as provided by LeafSpy, it's questionable
whether I'd drive another BEV, especially when exceeding its range in a daily drive.

what is "not true" ?

 

[johnlocke]

Leaf Spy is indeed a useful tool to have and I wouldn't want to be without it. That said, the Percent Power Left gauge and knowing your general range is sufficient for most planning. Leaf Spy lets you monitor the last few watts if necessary to complete a trip. But you shouldn't put yourself in that position in the first place. That's like seeing how long you can drive an ICE after the low fuel light comes on. Leaf Spy is most useful as a diagnostic tool to let you see the overall condition of the battery and save you from having to go to the dealer for minor things like remapping the tires after rotations or resetting the door locks.

I did do a level 3 charge yesterday and then did a level 2 charge when I got home, This morning Leaf Spy reported that I'm back up to 363 GIDS 100% health and 79.68 AH. Don't know if it was the level 3 charge or just wonky Nissan sensors and software but I'm a happy camper again.

 

[QueenBee]

Leaf Spy lets you monitor the last few watts if necessary to complete a trip. But you shouldn't put yourself in that position in the first place. That's like seeing how long you can drive an ICE after the low fuel light comes on.

That's really easy for you to say with your like new 30 kWh battery. Let's talk in 5-10 years when you've only got 50% of the original capacity. Though I guess by then you could recommend anyone who need to use the last bit of charge should dump their old LEAF and get cheap used 200 mile EV with a thermal management system so that the battery will actually last.