2013 LEAF Specs, Pricing, Options Released In Japan

[TEG]

That smaller EVSE that is in the sales brochure looks just like the Panasonic one in my Rav4. It's smaller, no doubt cheaper to include, and is not capable of 16 amp upgrades.

I just got mine back with a 240v/12amp/2.88kW upgrade. I hope to never need this unless it's overnight (which wouldn't fill my 41.8kWh battery).

Was that Phil/EVSEupgrade that did the 240V mod for you?

 

[surfingslovak]

That smaller EVSE that is in the sales brochure looks just like the Panasonic one in my Rav4.

Would you have a URL to the brochure? That would be big news to all the prospective upgraders.

I just got mine back with a 240v/12amp/2.88kW upgrade. I hope to never need this unless it's overnight (which wouldn't fill my 41.8kWh battery).

Phil? Good to hear that at least something can be done with that unit. The upgrade might do something for PiP and Leaf owners.

Keep in mind that gas cars typically only ever had an empty<->full "fuel" gauge, and didn't try to give you a miles to empty number.

Drove a gas bimmer with a DTE recently. It wasn't 100% accurate from what I could tell, but less erratic than what the LEAF has for sure.

When people see a digital range number on their new car, they want to think it is magically accurate.

I think some consumers believe anything that's printed somewhere. It's surprising to see software engineers from Microsoft to fall for the GOM though.

 

[TonyWilliams]

That smaller EVSE that is in the sales brochure looks just like the Panasonic one in my Rav4. It's smaller, no doubt cheaper to include, and is not capable of 16 amp upgrades.

I just got mine back with a 240v/12amp/2.88kW upgrade. I hope to never need this unless it's overnight (which wouldn't fill my 41.8kWh battery).

Was that Phil/EVSEupgrade that did the 240V mod for you?

Yes, I think mine was his first Rav4 mod, however it's the same unit as the Plug In Prius (and now, I suspect, the low grade LEAF).

 

[TonyWilliams]

That smaller EVSE that is in the sales brochure looks just like the Panasonic one in my Rav4.

Would you have a URL to the brochure? That would be big news to all the prospective upgraders.[/quote]

http://www.mag-x.com/images_new/201210/24/20121024_1_2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

http://www.mag-x.com/images_new/201210/24/20121024_1_2.jpg

Thanks, I missed that. This is not good. Cheaper plug and cheaper EVSE. FWIW Yazaki was pretty outrageous, at least when I tried to source J plugs last summer.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Heat Shield ceiling, I would say that it's insulation in the roof to keep the heat of the sun out.

How about the "Highly concentrated Plasma Cluster Ion generator" sounds like mister fusion to me.

got that in the Prius. must be a Japanese thing. after all their pollution issues are much worse than ours

also the "DTR" (distance to refuel) on the Prius is no more accurate than the LEAFs GOM. I documented a trip where I drove 100 miles past zero.

when i get gas, the range always says 565. In summer, i can get 600+ miles easily. In Winter, lucky to get 500

 

[DaveEV]

I love that it's 80 kG lighter. That's huge!

Yep - it's a good amount of weight loss after 2 years of work. Really pretty substantial without any other significant changes. Curb weight should be around 3177 lbs from 3354 lbs.

They could just throw out that heavy electromechanical parking brake and heavy lead acid battery to get a big chunk of this, along with lightening the wheels. I suspect we won't have a 1500 watt DC-DC converter any more :? If they leave off the weight of all the CHAdeMO cables and bits, that could be another source of the miraculous diet.

They have switched to a foot-parking brake, but I highly doubt they've changed the lead-acid battery. Wheels are the same or probably heavier (steel 16" wheels or aluminum 17" wheels). I also highly doubt that they're changing the specs of the DC-DC converter significantly - after all, Toyota still ships a 100A capable DC-DC converter after all these years.

Unfortunately, I have big reservations about the range increase. I suspect that is the usual Nissan-Smoke-And-Mirrors(TM); playing with data about the reduction in LOST range with the resistance heater over the heat pump, and calling that an increase in range.

I'm 98% sure the JC08 test does not include HVAC use in the test. That said, the JC08 test is obviously geared towards city driving and the enhancements to the braking system to allow more energy to be recovered by regenerative braking could account for most of the increase in range.

Remember folks, it's the SAME battery. Knocking off 80kg / 176 pounds is NOT going to add 10-20% in range. Plus, I'll bet the loaded LEAF with leather, 17 inch wheels, heat pump, power seats, etc, is HEAVIER than a 2011-2012.

I smell a pizza bet coming on... I highly doubt the Gen1.3 LEAF fully loaded will be heavier than the Gen1 LEAF. In fact, I'd bet that it will still come in at least 50 lbs under.

I'm surprised no-one noticed the good-old-fashioned dials for HVAC control on the base model. I wonder how many people will buy the base model for that reason alone...

Other notable improvements that I've been able to gather:

3% reduction in 0-100 km/h time - appears to be from an increase in torque and faster reacting electronics
5db reduction in high frequency noise (I suspect they've reduced the whine that the inverter/motor make)
Lots of HVAC efficiency updates - though I don't understand the charts
Separate Heat/A/C toggle buttons - no more heat when you don't want it!

Over all it looks like a very nice update. Although I'm sure many of us still want more battery capacity along with a more durable battery that doesn't lose range as quickly.

 

[cwerdna]

Besides the knobs for the HVAC, there seems to be a lack of buttons around the touchscreen. It looks like it still might have nav, but I wonder what they changed/removed on that cheaper trim.

 

[TonyWilliams]

http://www.mag-x.com/images_new/201210/24/20121024_1_2.jpg

Thanks, I missed that. This is not good. Cheaper plug and cheaper EVSE. FWIW Yazaki was pretty outrageous, at least when I tried to source J plugs last summer.

I've got a spare Yazaki 30 amp setup (with a bunch of cord that I haven't measured the length) and I also acquired a Clipper Creek CS-40 that I am sending in the control board to be reflashed for 60 amps (it has 65 amp rated Square D relays, otherwise I'd go bigger).

I'll bring that project with me to the Dec 1 EVSE build clinic in Orange County.

 

[vegastar]

They really listened to the gen1 owners. There is now a dedicated button to enable/disable the Heat.

http://www.mag-x.com/images_new/201210/23/20121023_1_5.jpg

 

[RegGuheert]

I'm quite impressed with the range of improvements that Nissan has been able to achieve after 2+ years of additional development. Here is my quick take of the areas they have addressed:

- Reduced weight: Improves range, handling and tire wear. Reduces material costs and disposal.
- Improved drivetrain efficiency: Improves range, improves performance.
- Integrated power electronics modules with motor: Reduces manufacturing costs and weight by eliminating heavy, expensive cabling. Also, cooling loop is now much shorter with charger moved to the front. It might also use less electricity to run the pumps since the head should be reduced. This will help with L1 charging rate.
- Improved cargo area: Always a popular improvement. (I guess the ultracapacitor is now gone, saving manufacturing cost.)
- Improved efficiency of loads: Improves range.
- Improved ergonomics: There were many confusing items in the original LEAF that were cleaned up while new options were added. This is a good thing and will probably help reduce the strangeness factor at initial sale.

I have always imagined that the evolution of production EVs would mimic that of commercial jet aircraft. When the Boeing 737 was released in the late 1960s, it had a range of only 600-or-so miles, IIRC. Boeing nearly cancelled the project due to tepid initial market interest. It's good that they didn't since 40-odd years later it has become the largest-selling commercial aircraft in history (over 10,000 sold!) and the new version being designed has a range of some 3700 miles.

Steady improvement with a long-term view of the future is a good strategy, IMO. The Japanese excel at this approach. Hopefully Nissan can hone their marketing and sales messaging and efforts to better reflect what this car can and cannot do today.

 

[adric22]

If the battery is the same, then I suspect the increase in range is due to the new drive motor and regen system. I've always thought the regen in the Leaf was weak compared to our Volt and even the Prius we used to have.

 

[edatoakrun]

I'm quite impressed with the range of improvements that Nissan has been able to achieve after 2+ years of additional development...

Yes, the improvements are more than I expected, and they may be enough to have even those like myself, that are still somewhat in awe of our 2011-12 LEAFs' performance, considering an upgrade.

Remember, the US 2013 LEAF will almost certainly have features differing from the Japanese market LEAF beyond the 6.6 kW charger option, and the range increase on the higher-speed EPA test will almost certainly be a smaller percentage increase, so I'd expect something like a 78 to 80 mile US EPA range.

Still, along with the impressive weight decrease, this would give a significant improvement in range for drivers like me, who do much of our longer drives in slow speed mountain driving, and of course the handling improvement from the lighter weight will be another bonus.

I didn't expect a significant battery change, since, IMO, the LEAF doesn't need it. We just need clarity from Nissan as to the cost of the battery trade-in/ replacement/refurbishment process, when we decide we need greater range due to capacity loss over time.

I hope that Nissan USA announces something more to increase public DC in the USA, as they plan to for Japan (~700 dealer Chademos) as my inability to use my fast-charge port, has been the only major "flaw" in my 2011 LEAF, since delivery, and unfortunately, will still be the major "flaw", if I buy a 2013.

 

[edatoakrun]

="TomT"

...It will also be interesting to see what the 2013 with all these improvements does to the resale market for the 2011 and 2012 models as they come off of lease...

Discounts to clear the 2012 LEAF inventory have already lowered 2011-2012 resale prices from very high to merely high.

I was wondering if the 2013 improvements would be enough to sell the huge USA LEAF factory output at list prices near those of the 2011-12 LEAFs, or if significant discounting would be required.

If USA market LEAFs have most or all these same upgrades, I think Nissan has a shot of selling the ~10k 2013 LEAFs a month in the USA market it would like to, and for the first time, make a profit on each sale.

I earlier predicted that the US stripper "S" might be priced to sell at below $20 k after the federal tax credit (~$27,499).

But if the "S" has most or all of the announced improvements of the Japanese market 2013, I don't think Nissan will need to cut the prices that low to move them off the lots.

 

[mkjayakumar]

But isn't it disappointing that after 3 years in the market, the Leaf is still with the same chemistry and no improvements around that ? The pitiful range increase has not come due to a better battery chemistry. And most importantly the heat degradation has been completely not addressed, and that almost gives credence to the theory that Nissan was caught unaware on the extent of the problem until this summer.

Atleast the Volt did slightly better in that area by getting a 9% increase directly attributable to a better battery in their Gen 2.

 

[MikeS]

Long time lurker guys, hope to post more.

I have a G37 and Altima V6 and I use too much gas. I'm happy to see Nissan is constantly improving the Leaf. 24 Months is a pretty short time frame for all these changes.

Since the 6.6K charger was not mentioned here (but sounds planned for the US), I'm hoping we can see other changes too. Maybe a small bump in battery size (say to 28KW) plus with the new efficiency could bring the range up to about 100 miles EPA rated.

I like it and hope to replace one of our cars with it (Altima has about 18 months left in the lease).

Mike S.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Nissan continues Kaizan on the LEAF with improvements EVERY year. I would have to assume that will continue with the 2014 model where it seems most of the changes we are looking for will come in like bigger, better batteries.

lightening the LEAF is the first step towards that end. making more room would be the 2nd.

things i was hoping for but did not see is a 120/240 charging cable but Phil has that covered. no mention of 6.6 Kwh charging but if its a penny more, i will pass. but as an option for people who want it (or dont have QC available) it should be there.

Remember this is "only" a press release and for a LEAF we will not see. The Japanese LEAF has ALWAYS been different than ours so it remains to be seen what the American version will have so I would not get too wound up on all this but the announcement does give us an indication of what they are thinking.

cant wait. this has really built some anticipation!

 

[TomT]

I have to disagree. I have not owned an ICE in the last 15 years that did not have a range to empty function exactly like the GOM.

Keep in mind that gas cars typically only ever had an empty<->full "fuel" gauge, and didn't try to give you a miles to empty number.

 

[Jay]

The Nissan execs are "up and at them" now in the US, just talked to Travis Parman and I don't think (my own personal optinion only) they are quite prepared for this wave of info. Pretty much said what you would expect ahead of a future US announcement that has had some thunder stolen:

"Specifications for the model year ’13 Nissan LEAF in Japan were released on Nov. 20 and apply only for that model designed for the Japanese market. Information on the 2013 Nissan LEAF in the U.S. will be released closer to its on-sale date here. As with prior model year LEAFs, specifications between markets are unique. Ratings such as range differ based on the governmental testing procedures in individual markets."


The Japanese Nissan guys are saying the Japanese spec LEAF is "very similar" as to what to expect in the US.

...going to see if I can get a ETA on the US announcement and plant opening ceremonies

 

[TomT]

I don't think so. If you look closely at the picture, you'll note that there is still a hump on the left side of the cargo area. I suspect that the ultra cap lives in there. They still need it for an emergency power source for the regular brakes. Personally, I am not a big fan of foot brakes and would have preferred that they kept the electric parking/emergency brake or had at least gone to a pull-up handle...

Improved cargo area: Always a popular improvement. (I guess the ultracapacitor is now gone, saving manufacturing cost.)