2013 LEAF Specs, Pricing, Options Released In Japan

[RegGuheert]

If you have no idea, how do you believe The battery is different with the cells remaining the same ? Different color casing may be ? :- )

I'm spreading a rumor...

They apparently have a different shape and therefore are not interchangeable.

BTW, I didn't say they are the same at the cell level, but I assume they are.

 

[LEAFfan]

Please, this is not the place to continue the eternal debate about what a Volt is. The subject is 2013 LEAF Specs.

We do have to keep reminding ourselves of what Tony just said:

There is no new battery for 2013.

2014 or 2015, maybe. Who knows.

Ray

There will be a new battery with a different chemistry in 2015, but not likely in 2014.

 

[Herm]

I would also like to say labeling people in a negative context does nothing to increase the knowledge level or impart information to the members of the forum; which is what forums should be about. It also can weaken any point you want to make by detracting from the subject matter and making it a personal confrontation.

My apologies, I was in a cranky mood and the laxative did not help.

 

[Herm]

I cant believe Nissan is cranking up the Smyrna battery factory with the old chemistry and then switch it a year later.

 

[hill]

switching in a year? We hope.

 

[TonyWilliams]

switching in a year? We hope.

No way. 2015 model year.

 

[Nubo]

There will be a new battery with a different chemistry in 2015, but not likely in 2014.

Opinion? Or is this from a source?

 

[fotajoye]

Glad to see we are back to discussing the Leaf and I hope I didn't offend anyone; if so I apologize. I intend to stay on topic.

I understand the current battery is rebuildable by opening up the case and replacing modules/cells, etc. That means the current battery could also be upgraded with better modules. I'm not sure how many 2011 and 2012 Leafs were sold; I think about 20,000 worldwide. That's 20,000 cars that will some day need a replacement battery. And, if the 2013 and beyond has the same form factor, that's even more potential rebuild sales.

Seems to me that's a fair size future market for after-market batteries. Hopefully some company(ies) will decide to venture into that market space fairly soon and offer more dense replacement cells.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm not sure how many 2011 and 2012 Leafs were sold; I think about 20,000 worldwide. That's 20,000 cars that will some day need a replacement battery. And, if the 2013 and beyond has the same form factor, that's even more potential rebuild sales.

Seems to me that's a fair size future market for after-market batteries. Hopefully some company(ies) will decide to venture into that market space fairly soon and offer more dense replacement cells.

42,000 so far.

 

[fotajoye]

@Tony Williams:
I read much of your appended posting material and I for one thank you for the extensive amount of investigative material you have provided; Thank you.

 

[evnow]

old 2 cycle test = 320 miles

new 5 cycle test = 265 miles

Not so simple.

EPA had a way of estimating the new 5 cycle number using the old 2 cycle number. That is how Leaf ended up with 73 miles (2 cycle was over 100 miles, the 30% adjustment yielded 73).

So, looks like the real 5 cycle is only 18% less than 2 cycle, instead of 30%. If the current Leaf uses 5 cycle, it's EPA range will probably go up to 80 miles or so.

 

[JPWhite]

I cant believe Nissan is cranking up the Smyrna battery factory with the old chemistry and then switch it a year later.

I view progress/change (whatever you want to call it) like tuning a carburetor. You only want to dicker with one adjustment at a time and see how that works and follow a checklist/plan.

I'm sure they are focused on the primary goal of getting manufacturing successfully transferred to the states. The 2013 model has more change in it than the 2012 did by a long way. There is only so much change they can absorb without the wheels coming off the wagon.

I also feel they convinced themselves they got the most important part of the EV right first time, and were knocked off balance when Pheonix heat did it's number on their baby. They may not be prepared for a change to the basic drive-train platform so early. Other changes we are seeing to the vehicle they probably could have predicted would come out of what is essentially a pilot program. I think a little pride got in the way of reality.



OK so I used a gasoline based analogy to describe change management. What's the EV equivalent we will use in the future when no one alive remembers what it is like to tinker with a gas engine?

 

[philipscoggins]

OK so I used a gasoline based analogy to describe change management. What's the EV equivalent we will use in the future when no one alive remembers what it is like to tinker with a gas engine?

It'll be a reference to writing code.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I cant believe Nissan is cranking up the Smyrna battery factory with the old chemistry and then switch it a year later.

the gear up of a brand new facility verses changing the product of an established facility is probably two very different levels of complexity. not sure that a change in battery chemistry is really going to be that involved.

 

[Ingineer]

Stories like Tony's melted plug reinforce this view.

FYI: Tony's meltdown was due to a bad crimp in the Blink (Rema) handle. The other one I examined has the same problem, only on the opposite side. I'm sure when people start plugging the 2013 Leafs into Blinks we'll see a lot more of this. Luckily Blink has to repair them, (for those in the EV Project anyway) and they are liable for replacing burned inlets in the vehicles as well.

-Phil

 

[RegGuheert]

Stories like Tony's melted plug reinforce this view.

FYI: Tony's meltdown was due to a bad crimp in the Blink (Rema) handle.

Thanks for the update, Phil! I went back and looked at the other thread on that. Cool pics!

The thing is, as we move up to 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 and 80 amps, we will find more and more of these types of problems. Sure, some of them like this are maturity issues that will get worked out, but I'll predict a boatload of issues with these things above 30A after they have been in service for a few years. J1772 connectors will likely be known as one of the early beta forms of EV connectors.

Some day we will likely be wanting to charge at 100 or even 200A...

 

[evnow]

I cant believe Nissan is cranking up the Smyrna battery factory with the old chemistry and then switch it year later.

The manufacturing plant would be able to make either of them. That is the way they will design the new batteries as well.

 

[surfingslovak]

They apparently have a different shape and therefore are not interchangeable.

Reg, that's a good point. Here is a high-res picture of the battery pack cutaway model lifted from Nissan's PR material. I think it's quite obvious that module "packaging", for the lack of a better word, and the battery pack case have changed. The cabling inside the case looks different too, and there could be changes to the electronic as well, but it's tough to say. The chemistry, and rated cell capacity should remained unchanged in 2013 MY.



Click to open

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

well since half the "hump" is gone, a configuration change would be obvious i would think.

nice pix and really illustrates that the remaining hump is the rear suspension.

 

[Stanton]

Unless I'm missing something, it looks like the actual module MECHANICS haven't changed (still a rectangular "box"). You can cable and re-arrange them any way you like, but what's important (at least to me) would be future MECHANICAL compatibility with battery replacements/upgrades.