2012 Leaf information posted by Nissan

[davewill]

I wonder why they did not just make the quick charge port standard on both models.

I'd say two reasons. The first is that the price of the base model gets quoted a LOT, and they don't want to raise it more than necessary, the second is that there's a certain segment of buyers who live in densely populated locations and drive only in a small area that truly don't need QC.

 

[Stoaty]

Actually, I AM surprised that there are no changes to the charger. I think that a lot of potential buyers were expecting this change for 2012 and some even hoped that it would be changed for mid-2011 LEAFs. That is a competitive problem for Nissan against Ford, with the Ford's 6 kW charger.

Competing against vapor is not that difficult. I have seen no evidence that Ford intends to produce their EV in any kind of volume, and who knows if they will meet their announced date.

 

[rnkepler]

Actually, I AM surprised that there are no changes to the charger. I think that a lot of potential buyers were expecting this change for 2012 and some even hoped that it would be changed for mid-2011 LEAFs. That is a competitive problem for Nissan against Ford, with the Ford's 6 kW charger.

I'm not surprised only because it seems like they're having enough trouble with their supply chain and producing these cars in volume without making changes. Also, it's not like they can just drop a different charger, they would have to upgrade the wiring too. At this point I'll be happy if they get their current production process ironed out before I order. As far as a competitive problem goes, that depends on Ford's volume and their pricing. I'd rather have Nissan's commitment to EVs and 3.3kW charger than a Ford with a 6.6kW charger.

 

[senordaley]

At this point I'll be happy if they get their current production process ironed out before I order. As far as a competitive problem goes, that depends on Ford's volume and their pricing. I'd rather have Nissan's commitment to EVs and 3.3kW charger than a Ford with a 6.6kW charger.[/quote]

When are you thinking of placing your order, if I may ask, and how will you know production process is ironed out?
I am also waiting to order so I feel that xtra info may be helpful...

 

[Spies]

I wonder why they did not just make the quick charge port standard on both models.

I'd say two reasons. The first is that the price of the base model gets quoted a LOT, and they don't want to raise it more than necessary, the second is that there's a certain segment of buyers who live in densely populated locations and drive only in a small area that truly don't need QC.

I don't disagree with this logic however applying the same logic why would Nissan force the cold weather package on both models? Would this not make the price go up on both the SV and SL? I suppose we won't really know until the prices are announced.

 

[rnkepler]

At this point I'll be happy if they get their current production process ironed out before I order. As far as a competitive problem goes, that depends on Ford's volume and their pricing. I'd rather have Nissan's commitment to EVs and 3.3kW charger than a Ford with a 6.6kW charger.

When are you thinking of placing your order, if I may ask, and how will you know production process is ironed out?
I am also waiting to order so I feel that xtra info may be helpful...

I won't. I'll just have to hope for the best. I'm sure I'll order at the first chance I get. I'd just rather Nissan focus on their current process from production through delivery than try to add / upgrade features at this point.

 

[SanDust]

Do you have facts to back your opinion?

Not exactly opinion. More like an estimate. You start with a range of 80 miles in 60F-80F weather. In nasty winter weather you'll get about 60%-65% of that range. That gives you 50 miles. However, that's total range. You can't take the car to zero SOC. You want to leave 15 miles or so of buffer. Ergo, 35 miles.

You can do your own estimating but that's going to be quite close. Note that if you account for the 15 mile buffer this is only 10 miles different than Nissan's uber-optimistic 60-100 mile range estimate.

A complicating factor is that this estimate, based on the range with a new battery and charging to 100%, is the best case scenario. Obviously charging to 80% is out, but, by the end of year five, Nissan's own estimate is that battery capacity and therefore range will be down to 80% of what it was when the battery pack was new. So even Nissan's numbers suggest a 30-35 mile range in cold weather locations.

 

[Electric4Me]

I wonder why they did not just make the quick charge port standard on both models.

I'd say two reasons. The first is that the price of the base model gets quoted a LOT, and they don't want to raise it more than necessary, the second is that there's a certain segment of buyers who live in densely populated locations and drive only in a small area that truly don't need QC.

I don't disagree with this logic however applying the same logic why would Nissan force the cold weather package on both models? Would this not make the price go up on both the SV and SL? I suppose we won't really know until the prices are announced.

I wonder if they decided that it's in their best interest to install systems to protect the battery so that folks who don't have the cold weather package but end up experiencing cold weather (or sell the car to someone who does) don't end up making warranty claims. I don't recall any exclusion in the warranty about exposing the car to cold weather.

Do you have facts to back your opinion?

Not exactly opinion. More like an estimate. You start with a range of 80 miles in 60F-80F weather. In nasty winter weather you'll get about 60%-65% of that range. That gives you 50 miles. However, that's total range. You can't take the car to zero SOC. You want to leave 15 miles or so of buffer. Ergo, 35 miles.

You can do your own estimating but that's going to be quite close. Note that if you account for the 15 mile buffer this is only 10 miles different than Nissan's uber-optimistic 60-100 mile range estimate.

A complicating factor is that this estimate, based on the range with a new battery and charging to 100%, is the best case scenario. Obviously charging to 80% is out, but, by the end of year five, Nissan's own estimate is that battery capacity and therefore range will be down to 80% of what it was when the battery pack was new. So even Nissan's numbers suggest a 30-35 mile range in cold weather locations.

That's a bit harsh IMO. Who would ever quote range with such sandbagging at both ends? Certainly not a manufacturer, and I wouldn't expect them to. As far as the 15 mile buffer at the bottom goes, I certainly don't employ that practice. The bottom bar is just as usable as the top bar! (I acknowledge that there may be stresses involved with doing so frequently.)

 

[jamesanne]

Do you have facts to back your opinion?

Not exactly opinion. More like an estimate. You start with a range of 80 miles in 60F-80F weather. In nasty winter weather you'll get about 60%-65% of that range. That gives you 50 miles. However, that's total range. You can't take the car to zero SOC. You want to leave 15 miles or so of buffer. Ergo, 35 miles.

You can do your own estimating but that's going to be quite close. Note that if you account for the 15 mile buffer this is only 10 miles different than Nissan's uber-optimistic 60-100 mile range estimate.

A complicating factor is that this estimate, based on the range with a new battery and charging to 100%, is the best case scenario. Obviously charging to 80% is out, but, by the end of year five, Nissan's own estimate is that battery capacity and therefore range will be down to 80% of what it was when the battery pack was new. So even Nissan's numbers suggest a 30-35 mile range in cold weather locations.

Restating your opinion doesn't make it fact. Can you please point to where you are getting these numbers.

 

[evnow]

The press release is not specific enough for us to figure out what they are doing in terms of options or what earlier standard base equipment is now moved to options (they will never high light such things). So, we will have to wait to get those details.

Regarding 6.6 KW charger, I don't think Nissan will announce anything until Focus EV details are announced.

 

[davewill]

I wonder why they did not just make the quick charge port standard on both models.

I'd say two reasons. The first is that the price of the base model gets quoted a LOT, and they don't want to raise it more than necessary, the second is that there's a certain segment of buyers who live in densely populated locations and drive only in a small area that truly don't need QC.

I don't disagree with this logic however applying the same logic why would Nissan force the cold weather package on both models? Would this not make the price go up on both the SV and SL? I suppose we won't really know until the prices are announced.

The same reason the QC isn't optional on SL, I suppose. I'm thinking that they wanted/needed to keep the number of build options down and the cold weather package would have to be done during the build.

 

[TomT]

I wonder how the heated seats/wheel are going to work out in practice. I've found that, in the relatively mild cold weather and rain we had here this winter, I needed to use the heater more for windshield and window defogging than to heat the cabin. Heated seats, etc. are not going to help with this at all or reduce the need for heat to defog...

 

[kmp647]

Very true, being warm and being able to see thru the windshield are 2 different things

They should have added a heated windshield
But even then I bet you need some air over the windshield to prevent fogging at times
Like on the rav-4

 

[Herm]

I'd say two reasons. The first is that the price of the base model gets quoted a LOT, and they don't want to raise it more than necessary, the second is that there's a certain segment of buyers who live in densely populated locations and drive only in a small area that truly don't need QC.

Most people are like that, the majority.. then again the smaller group that drives further is perhaps more interested in an electric car to save money. Nissan needs to offer an optional larger pack ASAP. The 150 Mile Big Pack, bundled with the 6.6kw charger, $5999 option.

 

[Herm]

I don't disagree with this logic however applying the same logic why would Nissan force the cold weather package on both models? Would this not make the price go up on both the SV and SL? I suppose we won't really know until the prices are announced.

IIRC the cold weather package is $990 and optional.. perhaps not an option in Canada?... In any case it would not be that hard for a do-it-yourselver to add an external heater to the battery pack, plus a bit of insulation. A water bed heating pad, with a built in thermostat would be perfect.

 

[kmp647]

So being clear here cold pack is optional on remaining 2011 orders

And standard equipment on all 2012?

 

[ml194152]

Yep, I'm real surprised there is no mention of a 6KW charger on the 2012. That was announced by Nissan several months ago (and reported here) and Nissan said they already have the supplier chosen and that the 6KW charger is actually smaller than the 3KW charger. They also said there woukd be an upgrade path for us 2011 owners. Strange. Hopefully its just an oversight by the marketing dept. and it will actually be on all 2012's.
I got my Schneider EVSE with 6KW capability just so that I could upgrade at a later date.

 

[planet4ever]

You guys are just dreaming about a 6K charger retrofit. It would require rewiring and, I expect, a boost to the cooling capacity.

Ray

 

[kmp647]

Yup won't happen

Better be ok with the 3.3

 

[rnkepler]

Yep, I'm real surprised there is no mention of a 6KW charger on the 2012. That was announced by Nissan several months ago (and reported here) and Nissan said they already have the supplier chosen and that the 6KW charger is actually smaller than the 3KW charger. They also said there woukd be an upgrade path for us 2011 owners.

To be clear, although Green Car Reports reported it, Nissan never said that there would be an upgrade path. They only said that they were studying the possibility.

http://www.plugincars.com/nissan-cl...er-charging-upgrade-being-studied-106922.html

I've haven't seen an announcement from Nissan about choosing a supplier for a 6.6kW charger. Do you have a link for that?