105+ mile range

[EvansvilleLeaf]

OK I have to break down and ask. I've searched the site, I've read the manuals and I'm buggered if I can work out what exactly the vlb warning refers to (I can work out the acronym of course). People routinely refer to 3 warnings - the low battery/lb (orange pump/plug), the turtle (obvious) and in between the very low battery/vlb. What does this one mean?

 

[DaveEV]

OK I have to break down and ask. I've searched the site, I've read the manuals and I'm buggered if I can work out what exactly the vlb warning refers to (I can work out the acronym of course). People routinely refer to 3 warnings - the low battery/lb (orange pump/plug), the turtle (obvious) and in between the very low battery/vlb. What does this one mean?

LBW = Low Battery Warning - the first low battery warning you get w/orange pump/plug and audible alert.
VLBW = Very Low Battery Warning - the 2nd low battery warning you get - the GOM will switch to reading --- instead of miles right after this.

Assuming 4.0 mi/kWh, at LBW you have less than 16 miles left before turtle and at VLBW you have less than 5 miles left before turtle.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - TonyWilliam's Range Chart
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=172985#p172985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - surfingslovak's Reverse SOC Range Chart

 

[FairwoodRed]

OK I have to break down and ask. I've searched the site, I've read the manuals and I'm buggered if I can work out what exactly the vlb warning refers to (I can work out the acronym of course). People routinely refer to 3 warnings - the low battery/lb (orange pump/plug), the turtle (obvious) and in between the very low battery/vlb. What does this one mean?

I’m guessing that the acronym you’re having trouble with is GOM. That is short for Guess-O-Meter and Nissan’s official name is the Distance-To-Empty guage.

Also, Turtle is the last warning that you’ll get, usually only ½ mile or so before it shuts off.

 

[GRA]

Here in texas with the mild weather and fairly flat land, the GOM works pretty well in my opinion. After the update in February the number is a bit more acurate and usually shows a more conservative number. Now, the GOM works as my lowest possible range and is a good indicator of if I can make a destination or not and if I drive better I can beat that number. So the current works of the GOM are now fairly good.

I DO wish the GOM would integrate more into the Nav system. Currently it just outputs if the range on your nav destination is too far for your GOM range. I wish it was smart enough to take the average speed of the roads, plus elevation changes, temp, and wind (maybe based on just a weather report) and use those factors to estimate range when using the nav. This way, instead of predicting what your driving conditions will be based on previous ones, it knows when a freeway is coming or when hills are coming and won't have to bounce the GOM around.

This site:

http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

does much of what we'd like the nav. system/GoM to do, including taking elevation, speed, weight and accessory power draw into account, as a range predictor. You'd want to add temp, wind speed, wet or dry road etc., and allow for different speeds on different increments, but it goes a long way towards what we'd like to have.

 

[EvansvilleLeaf]

OK I have to break down and ask. I've searched the site, I've read the manuals and I'm buggered if I can work out what exactly the vlb warning refers to (I can work out the acronym of course). People routinely refer to 3 warnings - the low battery/lb (orange pump/plug), the turtle (obvious) and in between the very low battery/vlb. What does this one mean?

I’m guessing that the acronym you’re having trouble with is GOM. That is short for Guess-O-Meter and Nissan’s official name is the Distance-To-Empty guage.

Also, Turtle is the last warning that you’ll get, usually only ½ mile or so before it shuts off.

Nope got those - it's the distinction between lbw and vlbw (the visual indicators not the acronyms) where I have the trouble

 

[EvansvilleLeaf]

OK I have to break down and ask. I've searched the site, I've read the manuals and I'm buggered if I can work out what exactly the vlb warning refers to (I can work out the acronym of course). People routinely refer to 3 warnings - the low battery/lb (orange pump/plug), the turtle (obvious) and in between the very low battery/vlb. What does this one mean?

LBW = Low Battery Warning - the first low battery warning you get w/orange pump/plug and audible alert.
VLBW = Very Low Battery Warning - the 2nd low battery warning you get - the GOM will switch to reading --- instead of miles right after this.

Assuming 4.0 mi/kWh, at LBW you have less than 16 miles left before turtle and at VLBW you have less than 5 miles left before turtle.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - TonyWilliam's Range Chart
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=172985#p172985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - surfingslovak's Reverse SOC Range Chart

Ah now I think I get it - when the Guessometer reads dashes not numbers that's the VLB warning? Thanks! Been bugging me for weeks.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Ah now I think I get it - when the Guessometer reads dashes not numbers that's the VLB warning? Thanks! Been bugging me for weeks.

It should pop up "Very Low Battery" on the Nav screen, and ask if you want to find the nearest charging station.

I reset my trip odometer B for each warning, and follow along on the range chart for the expected miles/kWh economy to determine how far I might go. I also turn off climate control, if on.

If I'm driving at 3.9miles/kWh (about 60mph steady on level roads), then I can expect to go 12 more miles. I also expect the VLB warning at 4 miles to go, and then finally the Turtle. Get safely off the road at Turtle.

Generally, whatever distance you drive in LBW (8 miles in the above example), you'll go half that distance in VLB (assuming balanced battery cells), so 4 more miles.

Your mileage may vary. You can print the range chart from the link in my signature line.

 

[EVDrive]

That is a very helpful and sumple summary/rule of thumb. Thanks.

Ah now I think I get it - when the Guessometer reads dashes not numbers that's the VLB warning? Thanks! Been bugging me for weeks.

It should pop up "Very Low Battery" on the Nav screen, and ask if you want to find the nearest charging station.

I reset my trip odometer B for each warning, and follow along on the range chart for the expected miles/kWh economy to determine how far I might go. I also turn off climate control, if on.

If I'm driving at 3.9miles/kWh (about 60mph steady on level roads), then I can expect to go 12 more miles. I also expect the VLB warning at 4 miles to go, and then finally the Turtle. Get safely off the road at Turtle.

Generally, whatever distance you drive in LBW (8 miles in the above example), you'll go half that distance in VLB (assuming balanced battery cells), so 4 more miles.

Your mileage may vary. You can print the range chart from the link in my signature line.

 

[EvansvilleLeaf]

Thanks - so there's a warning message too. It's possible I missed that in the manual but thought I read more closely than that.

Obviously never seen it and nor planning to although if it happens it's nice to know roughly how long I'll have. I saw the LBW (sorry - British by birth and that's just cognitive dissonance) and 9 miles on guessometer but was right by home so no biggy.

 

[edatoakrun]

...
This site:

http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

does much of what we'd like the nav. system/GoM to do, including taking elevation, speed, weight and accessory power draw into account, as a range predictor. You'd want to add temp, wind speed, wet or dry road etc., and allow for different speeds on different increments, but it goes a long way towards what we'd like to have.

Very cool, and very close, but I’ve got a few problems with uncertainties and variables, I can’t control

After my first look, it seemed to underestimate miles slightly-do you suppose it calculates from the black line route, rather than actual road, on the map?

It also chose a slightly different route than I have, for my long range/capacity tests.

And it calculates using 21 kWh capacity, where as my CW derived estimates, range from about 19.5-20.5 available battery capacity, depending on battery temperature.

So, the result of the approximately 130 kilometer trip estimated using this site, with a 60 kph speed, used 87.4 % of a 21 kWh ABC.

My closest real world test, used about 92% (just past VLB) of a 20.4 estimated ABC, to travel about 148 km, with close to the same 5,500+ ft. of ascent and descent (does the site display the calculated ascent/descent totals?).

My speed was variable, probably averaging about 37.5 mph (=60 kph), but with considerably lower efficiency overall, due to my variable speed, of up to 50 mph.

So, it looks like you might get very accurate predictions, from this site, IMO.

If someone is able to try long trip,from 100% to “turtle” or beyond, at constant speed, where the calculated route matches the odometer distance exactly, with as warm a battery (close to 21 kWh ABC), you might see results extremely close to those predicted, IMO.

Plot a 100% battery capacity route, using this site, and give it a try.

PS- check out the help page, which explains the route mile discrepancy I mentioned above, as well as other useful Info.

"...On long journeys (over 100km), the route actually calculated seem shorter by a few percent, especially if the journey is tortuous...."

http://jurassictest.ch/green-race/green-race-30-web/365-gr3-aide.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[planet4ever]

Ah now I think I get it - when the Guessometer reads dashes not numbers that's the VLB warning? Thanks! Been bugging me for weeks.

You also get audio warnings. A lady's voice tells you gently, "Low battery," and then later, "Very low battery." Yes, in addition to the voice, and the warning light, and the box that pops up on the "dot matrix" part of the dash display, and the popup over on the console display, and the console switching to the navigation screen, the GOM also starts flashing at LBW, and goes to 3 dashes at VLBW. Nissan has really gone out of their way to make sure you are aware of each of those stages.

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

.Obviously never seen it and nor planning to although if it happens it's nice to know roughly how long I'll have. I saw the LBW (sorry - British by birth and that's just cognitive dissonance) and 9 miles on guessometer but was right by home so no biggy.

I also was born across the pond, in London.

None of the data that I provide references the GoM or CarWings. This is strictly an exercise with the odometer, the fuel bars, and the three warnings, LBW, VLB, and Turtle. This data is greatly enhanced with a Gid meter and/or the upcoming LEAFscan.

Again, no GoM or CarWings.

 

[abasile]

...This site: http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...

For our mountain driving, this site's estimates appear to be overly pessimistic.

I put in the ~14 mile climb from the 210 freeway in Highland, CA up to the 76 gas station in Running Springs, CA, an ascent of roughly 4800 feet. I set the speed at 35 mph (56 km/hr), in "eco".

The site predicts battery utilization of 55.8%, i.e., 44.2% remaining from an initial SOC of 100%.

My actual experience is closer to 45% utilization. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3512&start=50#p137190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

...This site: http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...

For our mountain driving, this site's estimates appear to be overly pessimistic.

I put in the ~14 mile climb from the 210 freeway in Highland, CA up to the 76 gas station in Running Springs, CA, an ascent of roughly 4800 feet. I set the speed at 35 mph (56 km/hr), in "eco".

The site predicts battery utilization of 55.8%, i.e., 44.2% remaining from an initial SOC of 100%.

My actual experience is closer to 45% utilization. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3512&start=50#p137190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The trip I used was a round trip, beginning and ending at the same elevation, and I added the sums from both of the 2 legs.

So, if there is an error overstating the ascent energy calculation, I couldn't have seen it precisely, if the descent energy recovery was similarly overestimated. And since the one-way elevation change is only about 1,000 ft., the bar display I see, at the half-way point, my only means of monitoring % of ABC at that point is not a very accurate.

Have you tried the tool, using a trip with no net elevation gain?

I went to the thread you cited, but there are several trips posted, and I’m not clear how you got the 45%. Was that from the gid meter?

The intriguing thing is, maybe this tool seems to “work” for me, and not you, for the same reasons I seem to see one bar loss for about each 800 ft. of ascent, and IIRC, you see more like one bar loss, for each 1000 ft. of ascent.

If you plug the numbers of 14 miles, and 4800 Ft. of ascent into my “best estimate by bar” method, that 800 ft. ascent consumes about one bar, I think you get, using a value of about 7.14% ABC per bar, on average, for 14 bars (the twelve you see, and also the two “hidden”) you’d use near 7.5 bars worth of total kWh, (6 for the ascent, and about 1.5 for the miles traveled) X 7.14% per bar, or nearly 54% of ABC, pretty close to the 55.8 % the site predicts.

 

[abasile]

Have you tried the tool, using a trip with no net elevation gain?

I just tried a 21 mile round trip with lots of elevation changes en route, at an average speed of 35 mph. We do that particular drive quite regularly, and typically use roughly 20-25% SOC, depending on battery temperature. That tool predicts 30%. I tried the outbound leg of that drive by itself, and even though there is a net elevation drop of almost 1000 feet, the tool predicts utilization of something like 13%, which is probably at least double what we actually observe. That said, I am fairly careful to maximize regenerative braking when appropriate, and gently bleed off speed when cresting hills.

I went to the thread you cited, but there are several trips posted, and I’m not clear how you got the 45%. Was that from the gid meter?

Yes, my figures are from a gid meter.

The intriguing thing is, maybe this tool seems to “work” for me, and not you, for the same reasons I seem to see one bar loss for about each 800 ft. of ascent, and IIRC, you see more like one bar loss, for each 1000 ft. of ascent.

I suspect that my ascents are steeper than yours, and taken at lower speeds. We are probably not comparing apples to apples.

If you plug the numbers of 14 miles, and 4800 Ft. of ascent into my “best estimate by bar” method, that 800 ft. ascent consumes about one bar, I think you get, using a value of about 7.14% ABC per bar, on average, for 14 bars (the twelve you see, and also the two “hidden”) you’d use near 7.5 bars worth of total kWh, (6 for the ascent, and about 1.5 for the miles traveled) X 7.14% per bar, or nearly 54% of ABC, pretty close to the 55.8 % the site predicts.

Indeed, for me that ascent typically consumes roughly 6.5 bars. If I drive ~15 mph faster, however, then the consumption might be closer to 7.5 bars. It makes sense to me that, even when one omits from consideration the increased aerodynamic drag, overall efficiency would drop with relatively high, continuous discharge rates from the battery. That is one reason why, as a personal rule of thumb, I try to keep the motor power down to no more than a continuous 25 kW when climbing the mountain.

 

[GRA]

For all, note that the jurassictest site allows you to alter the available kWh (nice for checking 80% range) as well as (I believe) the % of regen ('recup'), so you can play around with it to better reflect your driving results. Personally, I'm perfectly happy if it's a bit conservative -- better conservative than optimistic. I'm a firm believer in "Underpromise and overperform".

 

[N1ghtrider]

Today I achieved 111.3 miles on a single charge for the 12th time of breaking the 100 mile barrier and the 7th time breaking this thread's 105 mile mark. I got 5.8 m/kWH on both dash and Carwings. Low bat at 91.8; Very Low Bat at 108.9 miles.

In the first 2,778 miles I have logged 1,330 miles while exceeding 100 miles per charge. That is 48% of my total mileage. I am shooting for exceeding 100 miles per charge for 50% of my driving.

 

[N1ghtrider]

My 13th time to achieve more than 100 miles per charge at 107.3 miles. This is my eighth time breaking the 105 mile mark that is the subject of this thread. I got 6.0 m/kWH carwings. Low bat at 96 miles; no VLB. That makes 1,437 miles out of the first 2,894 at more than 100 miles per charge (49.7% of driving, so I failed at acheiving 100+ miles per charge "most"of the time).

 

[LEAFfan]

I know that the GOM readings are unscientific, but as one of the mileage leaders on this forum

One of the mileage leaders? Miles mean nothing. What is important and relevant is your m/kW h, and you aren't even close. When you can consistently obtain 6.5m/kW h or higher, then you can brag about being a leader. For instance, where are you on CWs pertaining to 'driving efficiency'? When you are number one on there (U.S.), please let us know.

 

[N1ghtrider]

Miles per charge means everything to the range-anxious motoring public and I am a soldier in the war on range anxiety.