GRA
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Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

WetEV wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:49 pm
GRA wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:46 pm
WetEV wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:10 am Notice again how GRA tries to cast shade on electric cars at every turn. A skilled propagandist.
Again, how is accurately reporting both pro and con shading?
If you did, it might be useful.

If wishes were fishes...

IOW, you've got nothing. Please list every inaccuracy, pro and con, in my report of my Bolt trip. Start here with my trip prep: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 80#p591755

then here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 80#p591874

here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 80#p591889

here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 90#p591894

here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 90#p592144

and finally here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 90#p592155
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
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jlv
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Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

My brother-in-law got a LEAF in 2011, a Bolt in 2017, and a Model Y 18 months ago. After taking his Model Y on it's first 300 mile trip, his comment was to the effect "I can finally go on long trips and not worry one bit about where to charge".
ICE free since '18 / over 129K 100% BEV miles since '14
LEAF 2013 SL (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18, 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%)
Tesla S 75D (3/17, 53K mi, repaired! :D)
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frontrangeleaf
Posts: 269
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Location: Denver Area

Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

WetEV, GRA, I fail to see how comparing one set of anecdotal experiences to another set of anecdotal experiences comprises a discussion worthy of taking to the general case, much less argument.

You're both right. You selling popcorn? Because if not, you're missing an opportunity here.

How about you tone it down a bit? Why all the aggression? Can't you just compare notes and leave it at that? Respectfully?

Choosing to believe a thing does not make it so. Consider that your perspective might be incomplete and less than self-evident to the next guy maybe. And no, your data isn't perfect, nor your experience all that representative. Your sample sizes are all way too small, and the underlying objective reality is in flux. The best you can hope for is an imperfect snapshot of some sliver of reality. Maybe. If you're lucky.

No one has perfect data or perfect insight, nor are you going to be the first. Sheesh.
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

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LeftieBiker
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Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

I call it "Usenet Syndrome" and I remember well getting locked into it myself, back in the day, on usenet. Looking back on some of our posts from that era, the style doesn't age well...
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alozzy
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Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

If Donald Trump is successful in hijacking democracy in the US through any means possible (having no ethics makes for a lot of options) in 2024, then mass adoption of EVs won't happen anytime soon...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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oxothuk
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Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

alozzy wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:35 pm If Donald Trump is successful in hijacking democracy in the US through any means possible (having no ethics makes for a lot of options) in 2024, then mass adoption of EVs won't happen anytime soon...
EVs will achieve mass adoption when they become truly cost-competitive with ICEs. It's that simple, and DT has nothing to do with it.
May 2021 - 2021 SL+ , 10K miles, 92.6% SOH
alozzy
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Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

oxothuk wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:46 pm
alozzy wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:35 pm If Donald Trump is successful in hijacking democracy in the US through any means possible (having no ethics makes for a lot of options) in 2024, then mass adoption of EVs won't happen anytime soon...
EVs will achieve mass adoption when they become truly cost-competitive with ICEs. It's that simple, and DT has nothing to do with it.
Days after taking office, Trump rolled back the 50 mpg by 2026 standard that the Obama administration implemented and tried to freeze them at 2020 standards instead. He had to compromise for a 1.5% increase in average MPG through 2026 instead. Yeah, he loves EVs...

That emissions standard is what drives car manufacturers to make electric cars in the first place.

Gasoline emissions don't just impact GHG emissions, they increase cancer and respiratory illnesses too.

In BC, where I live, we have some of the highest gas prices in North America and a revenue neutral carbon tax compromises a good chunk of that cost at the pump. As a result, EV ownership in British Columbia is higher than any other province or state, other than California.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D
WetEV
Posts: 4822
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

GRA wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:41 pm
WetEV wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:50 am
GRA wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:44 pm

How is discussing the unreliability of charging as well as that of H2 stations a change of subject? Both are immature infrastructures that lack coverage, density, redundancy and reliability, which is why we need websites like Plugshare and the CAFCP's station status one for now.
Ah yes, roses are both red and have an odor, as do red herrings. Comparing the two isn't usually very meaningful.

Public charging isn't as necessary to a driver as H2 stations are. Most charging is at home or at work. All H2 fueling requires a trip to the H2 station.

It does now, that's the current state of the infrastructure, but it doesn't have to be the case. As one example (IIRR I've posted articles with links to other such systems, which IIRC are primarily being deployed in Japan at the moment): https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.p ... -stations/ Obviously, we're still at the dem/val or very early commercialization phase with these.
Which is all that hydrogen cars will ever be. Demos. Greenwash. Home conversion from fossil natural gas? A Stanley Steamer burning coal would make more sense.

GRA wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:41 pm But since we're talking about trip charging beyond range from home, public charging is absolutely crucial, and in rural areas it's nowhere near numerous or reliable enough.
Of course you only want about trips beyond range from home, less than 5% of the miles and 1% of the trips.

Of course, you want to focus on the few failures rather than on the vast number of successful charges. Of course. We didn't expect anything different.

Of course.

GRA wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:41 pm
WetEV wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:50 am Public charging is far more reliable than H2 stations are. Sure, there are issues with public charging, you have had more issues on one trip than I've had with 1.5GWh of public charging.
Yet I'm hardly alone having 'issues'.
Sure, and that's all you want to talk about.

Compare with my public charging on EVgo:
2017-09-19 Success
2017-09-21 Success
2017-09-23 Success
2017-09-26 Success
2017-10-03 Success
2017-10-03 Failed, but worked less than 60 seconds later
2017-10-06 Success
2017-10-06 Success
2017-10-10 Success
2017-10-13 Success
2017-10-17 Success
2017-10-19 Success
2017-10-19 Success
2017-10-24 Success
2017-10-29 Success
2017-10-31 Success
2017-11-07 Success
2017-11-13 Success
2017-11-14 Success
2017-11-17 Success
2017-11-17 Success
2017-11-17 Success
2017-11-17 Failed, but worked less than 60 seconds later
2017-12-25 Success
2017-12-25 Success

And so on.

My successful charging history is far more typical than your fairy tales of woe.

Oh, sure there are failures, mostly on Blink machines. But reading your comments one might think that was most of what happened.
Last edited by WetEV on Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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WetEV
Posts: 4822
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Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

oxothuk wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:46 pm
alozzy wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:35 pm If Donald Trump is successful in hijacking democracy in the US through any means possible (having no ethics makes for a lot of options) in 2024, then mass adoption of EVs won't happen anytime soon...
EVs will achieve mass adoption when they become truly cost-competitive with ICEs. It's that simple, and DT has nothing to do with it.
What costs do we compare? Including the health costs of air pollution or not?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red (Sold)
2019 eTron Blue
oxothuk
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 2:35 pm
Delivery Date: 05 May 2021
Leaf Number: 550377
Location: Colorado Front Range

Re: How fast can electric cars replace gas cars?

WetEV wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:31 pm
oxothuk wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:46 pm
alozzy wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:35 pm If Donald Trump is successful in hijacking democracy in the US through any means possible (having no ethics makes for a lot of options) in 2024, then mass adoption of EVs won't happen anytime soon...
EVs will achieve mass adoption when they become truly cost-competitive with ICEs. It's that simple, and DT has nothing to do with it.
What costs do we compare? Including the health costs of air pollution or not?
Purchase cost primarily.

If you want to cover externalities then you need another mechanism like a gas tax.
May 2021 - 2021 SL+ , 10K miles, 92.6% SOH

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