Tbobz
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Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:49 pm
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Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:16 pm

In a Clean Technica article by Dr. Holland that discusses tactics to deal with DCFC heat, the good doctor suggests to Nissan that they allow user to limit the charge rate. So, can only Nissan do this or is there a hack or a device that would accomplish this? I found a thread from years ago that touched on the notion but it seemed inconclusive. Thanks in advance an thanks to all whose contributions to this site have aided me in better using my Leaf.

cwerdna
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Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:57 pm

Gen 1 Leafs definitely had no UI to limit it. I doubt gen 2's do. I guess if you want to limit the rate, just gen a 40 kWh w/o the "rapidgate fix" applied.

Otherwise, use slower/lower powered DC chargers? https://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/cpe100/ (yes, there is a CHAdeMO version) are only "24 kW" at max. Actually, their 55 amp at max so their max wattage is lower than 24 kW at typical pack voltages.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

webeleafowners
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Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:11 am

In my province the goverment has installed at least two that i know of 25 KW single phase Chademo/CCS stations. These are both in remote mountain areas where there is single phase power. Nice rest stops. Bathrooms etc. We use them but only for about 15 minutes. Pee break. Walk the chihuahua, munchies from the cooler. I’ve never paid attention to how many kilowatts we pick up in that time. Handy though. They are both on the way up huge hills. Like 30 - 40 km of hill.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

SanCarlosJeff
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Leaf Number: 302391
Location: Northern CA

Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:51 am

It's probably for the best that Nissan doesn't allow this. It would be very very annoying to be waiting for a Chademo charger to open up and the vehicle getting charged was doing some sort of slow charge.
-Jeff
Prius: 2005-2012
Volt: 2012-2018
Leaf:2018-??

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14470
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:24 am

Why would you want to limit the rate? The rate is well below optimal charging speed as it is.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 3500.3 mi, 96.95% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

alozzy
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Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:05 pm

Most people are looking forward to faster DC charging, not slower...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... s-research
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Tbobz
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Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:49 pm
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Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:03 pm

Dave- Dr. Holland writes this in the article
"A useful partial solution would be to allow customers to manually set a peak charging rate (below the safe limit) that minimises heat gain and gets predictable results. The rate options should be 20 to 35 kW in 2.5 kW increments. Grey out/disable higher powered options as they become unavailable due to overheating risk. Ideally, make the power curves on these options flatter and less peaky (peaky = heaty). This will allow the customer to access more modest but more sustainable charging power and less overall heat gain during a long journey.

46 kW charging (adding 70%) takes 38–40 mins, but adds 20° Celsius of heat. 28 kW takes 53 mins, but adds half the heat. 23 kW charging takes 64 minutes, but adds just one quarter of the heat. 23 kW (or 22.5) would be ideal for a meal break, for example. These manual options would make a big difference to the user experience on a long journey."

The idea is to avoid, or at least, delay for a meaningful time, excessive battery heat when driving the Leaf on a long journey.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14470
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 319862
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Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:18 pm

Tbobz wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:03 pm
Dave- Dr. Holland writes this in the article
"A useful partial solution would be to allow customers to manually set a peak charging rate (below the safe limit) that minimises heat gain and gets predictable results. The rate options should be 20 to 35 kW in 2.5 kW increments. Grey out/disable higher powered options as they become unavailable due to overheating risk. Ideally, make the power curves on these options flatter and less peaky (peaky = heaty). This will allow the customer to access more modest but more sustainable charging power and less overall heat gain during a long journey.

46 kW charging (adding 70%) takes 38–40 mins, but adds 20° Celsius of heat. 28 kW takes 53 mins, but adds half the heat. 23 kW charging takes 64 minutes, but adds just one quarter of the heat. 23 kW (or 22.5) would be ideal for a meal break, for example. These manual options would make a big difference to the user experience on a long journey."

The idea is to avoid, or at least, delay for a meaningful time, excessive battery heat when driving the Leaf on a long journey.
a statement w/o regards to the size of the battery is simply folly.

to wit; On December 31st; I did a free NCTC charge session on EVGO. Lasted "around" 30 mins which charge rate at 120-121 amps for the duration. I received 22.9 kwh.

Battery temps started at 51.0/51.6/52.0
Battery temps ended at 71.4/72.0/73.4

The largest increase was 21.4º F or 13.4ºC

But that isn't even the issue. We are talking about a woefully overwhelmed network. Increasing charging time on a such a vital resource is a good idea how? What gives you the right to make this decision on your own? In a per minute billing scheme; its one thing to decide to pay the extra money for the increased time to charge but in the new Pay per kwh scheme California is so enamoured over, you simply don't have the right! In my case; a 23 kw charging rate would be well over 2 hours!

Now, if there was an abundance of money to add charging stations that cater to every need, then fine. Let me know when that happens.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 3500.3 mi, 96.95% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tbobz
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:49 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Nov 2018

Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:16 pm

Otherwise, use slower/lower powered DC chargers? https://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/cpe100/ (yes, there is a CHAdeMO version) are only "24 kW" at max. Actually, their 55 amp at max so their max wattage is lower than 24 kW at typical pack voltages.


Thanks for this. Very interesting.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14470
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Is it possible for user to limit Chademo charge rate?

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:50 am

To Whom it may concern; A Seattlite (former LEAFer, current Bolter soon to be Y'er) suggested to EA that they install "top off" chargers at 25 KW. He was advised yesterday that EA is actually considering the idea. Who knew??
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 3500.3 mi, 96.95% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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