SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:43 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:40 am
I don't believe the SOH is a good indicator of battery degradation.
It's easy enough to use LeafSpy to measure the energy going into the battery during a charging session. Just pick a day when the battery is say 60 - 70F, start from a depleted battery and charge to full.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

knightmb
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:18 am

cwerdna wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:35 pm
knightmb wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:34 pm
Yeah, just my experience with my 2020 SL Plus, when the battery level reaches 0%, there is still 9 kW of power left (according to LeafSpy),
Do you mean 9 kWh of energy?

If you were limited to 9 kW of power, you'd barely be able to accelerate and couldn't stay at a very high steady-state speed.
LOL, I did fix the typo because you'll notice it doesn't show an edit time on my post, but you must have caught that in the minute before I did the edit, but yeah, I know what you mean.
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15639
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:29 am

knightmb wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:34 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:41 pm
Interesting that Edmunds shows the Leaf (with 17") as having more range than a 2020 SR+, even with buffer. Our S+ do even better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicl ... urce=share

I liked their 65mph test procedure. It doesn't get much more objective than that.
Yeah, just my experience with my 2020 SL Plus, when the battery level reaches 0%, there is still 9 kWH of power left (according to LeafSpy), so if you really had some gentle driving, you could stretch out another 30 to 40 miles but I haven't seen anyone do a 100% to dead test just yet to see how far one could really go in say an emergency trying to reach the next QC.
Sure it was 9? I charted the relationship between the dash and LEAF Spy but was wondering if the relationship changes with degradation? I am likely going to do it again this Summer to compare.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... -test.html
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15639
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:34 am

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:43 pm
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:40 am
I don't believe the SOH is a good indicator of battery degradation.
It's easy enough to use LeafSpy to measure the energy going into the battery during a charging session. Just pick a day when the battery is say 60 - 70F, start from a depleted battery and charge to full.
How does that show anything? If the BMS is controlling access to the pack? I NEVER used SOH as a determination of capacity anyway. Always used ahr. SOH is the layman's tool for people who don't know what the starting ahr was. I always had new cars so it didn't make sense to use SOH
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
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Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:02 am

DaveInOly wrote:
SageBrush wrote: It's easy enough to use LeafSpy to measure the energy going into the battery during a charging session. Just pick a day when the battery is say 60 - 70F, start from a depleted battery and charge to full.
How does that show anything?
Not "anything", it measures pack capacity.

Coloumb counting and pack voltage are the base measurements your Ahr estimate relies on.
The Ahr reading is an estimate because it extrapolates from partial charges and discharges

When you measure total energy into the pack from depleted to full SoC via Leafspy, it is akin to having a utility meter attached to your EVSE -- only better, since you don't have to wonder about charging losses.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15639
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:12 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:02 am
DaveInOly wrote:
SageBrush wrote: It's easy enough to use LeafSpy to measure the energy going into the battery during a charging session. Just pick a day when the battery is say 60 - 70F, start from a depleted battery and charge to full.
How does that show anything?
Not "anything", it measures pack capacity.

Coloumb counting and pack voltage are the base measurements your Ahr estimate relies on.
The Ahr reading is an estimate because it extrapolates from partial charges and discharges

When you measure total energy into the pack from depleted to full SoC via Leafspy, it is akin to having a utility meter attached to your EVSE -- only better, since you don't have to wonder about charging losses.
Ok, that is far from my understanding which begs the question has the process changed since the 30 kwh battery days? Because the BMS restricted access to "good" capacity because the LBC reported it as bad. So the fix was correcting errors in the LBC so it could correctly report the true condition of the pack to the BMS so it sounds like the BMS did no counting
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:06 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:02 am
DaveInOly wrote:
SageBrush wrote: It's easy enough to use LeafSpy to measure the energy going into the battery during a charging session. Just pick a day when the battery is say 60 - 70F, start from a depleted battery and charge to full.
How does that show anything?
Not "anything", it measures pack capacity.

Coloumb counting and pack voltage are the base measurements your Ahr estimate relies on.
The Ahr reading is an estimate because it extrapolates from partial charges and discharges

When you measure total energy into the pack from depleted to full SoC via Leafspy, it is akin to having a utility meter attached to your EVSE -- only better, since you don't have to wonder about charging losses.
The energy into the pack displayed by Leaf Spy is calculated from parameters read directly from the LBC so it is no more accurate than any of the other parameters Leaf Spy displays. The only way to measure the true useable battery capacity is to measure the charging energy from dead to full with an accurate external meter (using the same EVSE). I have been doing that for the replacement battery in my 2019 every 3 months and did it monthly for my 2015 and the replacement battery in the 2011. In all cases, the energy storage capacity of the battery (as measured by my external meter) tracked the AHr and "GIDs" quite well. The SOH also tracked the present AHr as a percentage of the initial AHr so the LBC does a fairly good job of tracking/reporting this information.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2693
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:02 pm

March is in te books. We did have a few warm days in the mid 60s and many days in the 40s (and 30s).

S+ 658 miles 4.8-4.9 miles/kWh including a pretty reasonable amount of 60-65 mph highway. It's early, but it does feel like the EV01s are helping a little.

SV+ 385 miles. 4.3 miles/kWh With some, but less highway than the S+.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15639
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:46 am

Spring is arriving. I am only doing comfort controls (seat heater/steering wheel) in the mornings now so saving a "massive" 130ish watts of energy but the real kicker is no headlights coming or going. All this combined to push me to 4.17 miles/kwh for the month of March. I also noticed a 4 mph increase in average speed on commute days. Must be all that extra range playing tricks on my foot :lol:

I did lose another chunk of battery... .04% gone forev.... well, gone for now ;)
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2693
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:19 pm

A .04 adjustment is a win for sure.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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