sendler2112
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016
Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:12 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:46 am


The SOC reported by car or LS is based on calculated capacity of the pack. One has a hidden buffer, the other does not.

This is the reason there is no specific GID value for Turtle. Turtle is a voltage controlled situation. It comes on when it senses ONE cell hitting the critical voltage.

Now, despite one cell being close to that critical voltage, one could conceivably drive relatively far since there is still power in the pack. This is where Eco comes in. This is where gentle driving comes in.

Your scenario of driving from 100% to 20% daily will help bring the pack back into line (as long as there is no defective cells which appears unlikely in your case)

I don't recommend 100% charging generally but its Winter and you need the range so definitely do it. In Summer reevaluate to see if you can get away with charging to 80% or something lower.

Check your tire pressures. I would go no lower than 40 PSI "cold"
Brand new snow tires now. On treacherous roads the last few days. The good news is that it is easy to find someone else to follow that is going 60 mph so I am not the only "slow poke". Didn't get my 14-50 outlet run yet so still level 1 at home. It only made it back to 85% SOC at home the last three nights and with overnight lows of 13F, I am rolling in to work at 7% remaining. I assume 7% is worse for the weakest cell which then sits at 3.500v, is worse for it than 100%. Pack average was 3.560 The balance was good at the top at 13 mv last week although it may be a bit more out of whack now that I have taken the pack so low without reaching 100% again for 4 out of the last 6 cycles.

sendler2112
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
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Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:00 pm

LeafSpy full (the car said 100%) on 11/ 23/ 19. The SOH and HX went up since last month even though I have been hammering it to 100% most nights and running it to below 7% several times before I got my big charge station wired up. Balance is exceptional at the top of the charge.
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LeafSpy says my battery state of health is 86% but I unintentionally ran the car way down below 5% (it goes to dashes and quits counting down) and have also been from 6% and 7% to full at which point it still only takes less than 18kWh from the wall. Which would only be 75% remaining of the original stated 24kWh the car supposedly had when new.
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nlspace
Posts: 156
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Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:15 am

Curious data graph from the jbox--how can the energy increase when the power and control signals indicate "DisabledTou"?

Any idea of what is happening during those time periods? Maybe that is related to your JB issue with setting 10A.

p.s. you might want to charge the 12V aux , that reading is very low such as from a weak, old or worn out starter battery.

sendler2112
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
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Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:40 am

I did notice the sub 12v reading even with the lights and heat shut off. The 12v battery is 2 years old but I killed it completely once with the flashers while bringing it home on the tow dolly. It went straight to 14.4v when I turned the car on to check the 12v charge function when I saw that. I have also wired in a 1.5A trickle charger under the hood which I guess I should also plug in every weekend when the car mostly sits.

WetEV
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Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:43 am

sendler2112 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:00 pm
LeafSpy says my battery state of health is 86% but I unintentionally ran the car way down below 5% (it goes to dashes and quits counting down) and have also been from 6% and 7% to full at which point it still only takes less than 18kWh from the wall. Which would only be 75% remaining of the original stated 24kWh the car supposedly had when new.
Usable capability when new was about 21kWh.

Also capacity falls with decreasing temperature.

https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php ... mperatures


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WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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nlspace
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Jun 2017

Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:42 am

i use an automatic float chargger to maintain lead acid batteries, it cuts the current when full and won't overcharge. But be sure to test and verify that it is set to the correct voltage or it can cause boiling acid if the set point is too high (e.g. HF 64284 was set at 14.7 due to an incorrect resistor value).

from BU:
The driving range of an electric vehicle between charges is calculated at ambient temperature. EV drivers are being made aware that frigid temperature reduces the available mileage. This loss is not only caused by heating the cabin electrically but by the inherent slowing of the battery’s electrochemical reaction, which reduces the capacity while cold.

i read this as an apparent useable capacity while cold, a temporary reduction. Notice how Nissan addresses this in the third graphic from the FSM:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30599&p=572835#p572835

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14470
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:53 am

sendler2112 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:12 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:46 am


The SOC reported by car or LS is based on calculated capacity of the pack. One has a hidden buffer, the other does not.

This is the reason there is no specific GID value for Turtle. Turtle is a voltage controlled situation. It comes on when it senses ONE cell hitting the critical voltage.

Now, despite one cell being close to that critical voltage, one could conceivably drive relatively far since there is still power in the pack. This is where Eco comes in. This is where gentle driving comes in.

Your scenario of driving from 100% to 20% daily will help bring the pack back into line (as long as there is no defective cells which appears unlikely in your case)

I don't recommend 100% charging generally but its Winter and you need the range so definitely do it. In Summer reevaluate to see if you can get away with charging to 80% or something lower.

Check your tire pressures. I would go no lower than 40 PSI "cold"
Brand new snow tires now. On treacherous roads the last few days. The good news is that it is easy to find someone else to follow that is going 60 mph so I am not the only "slow poke". Didn't get my 14-50 outlet run yet so still level 1 at home. It only made it back to 85% SOC at home the last three nights and with overnight lows of 13F, I am rolling in to work at 7% remaining. I assume 7% is worse for the weakest cell which then sits at 3.500v, is worse for it than 100%. Pack average was 3.560 The balance was good at the top at 13 mv last week although it may be a bit more out of whack now that I have taken the pack so low without reaching 100% again for 4 out of the last 6 cycles.
Low SOC is not desired but is not worse than time at high SOC. High SOC degrades contacts on battery reducing their ability to transfer charge. Low SOC creates issues with electrolyte which reduces amount of charge particles to transfer.

Some think that fast charging will "break up" the electrolyte and at least partially restore its charge capacity. This is a process similar to what lead acid has. Back in the old days, I knew a lot of people who would take a battery and drop it from a few feet off the ground a few times to shake up the electrolyte, break of buildup off the plates, etc. I am not really sure how effective that was but it quite the common belief back in the day.

Another thing to realize is that your 7% on the car is likely closer to 17% in real life so you aren't really as low as you think you are.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 3500.3 mi, 96.95% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sendler2112
Posts: 261
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:15 am

I ran the battery down to several miles below the flashing dashes of StateOfCharge below 5%. Not intentionally. Started with 98% and went 40 miles home. Over confident since I had been getting by with 65% of my charge in the morning (tail wind and always a selection of large vehicles to follow at an easy 65 mph) and 75% at night (faster traffic and slight headwind). So on this one trip I used up 95%? driving too fast to chase up to too fast moving traffic and blaring the heat at 1.5 kW. According to the car. Leafspy said 12.4% remaining, with a lowest cell at 3.508 and a pack voltage of 342.26. I charged to 100% and the Juicebox stated 18.1 kWh from the wall. Even though the Leafspy always reports a much higher remaining SOC than the car at the bottom end, they both agree when at 100 %. Possibly the car is figuring in the dynamic sag under loads while driving? And the juice box screen shots are always done after parking the car and fitting in the dongle which offers a few minutes of rebound? So the SOCs on the car seem to indicate that I have about 18.7 kWh left of my battery which shows an StateOfHealth of 86.49% on that day.
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I'm playing with the Juicebox programming to learn how to set a charge that brings SOC to no more than 90% to be easy on my battery. I pulled in last night with 20% showing on the cluster, set the Juicebox to add 14kWh with a time of use on/ off, which it did perfectly. The car then showed 91% this morning. So the designated energy added was 71% according to the car. Inverse of .71 is 1.4085. Times the 14 kWh added equals a 19.72 kWh capacity of my battery as extrapolated from the energy that added in from the wall. Now I need a notebook to keep a log in the car.
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This would be much simpler if Nissan would offer a user programmable setting in the cluster or infotainment center as to the maximum charge percentage desired. It would be in their best interest to reduce warranty pack replacements if enthusiasts could select partial charge levels of their choosing to baby the packs.
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Do other EVs offer this feature?

LeftieBiker
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Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:32 pm

Many do, some don't. Nissan is being stupid and stubborn not to do it. They offered 80% as a limit until 2014, when the way the EPA rated the car with two charge levels changed their minds - forever, it seems.
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sendler2112
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
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Re: Is this LeafSpy data ok for 2014 with 62,000 miles?

Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:53 pm

I would have to select a 90% SOC limit anyway if I had a choice to make sure I cover the distance in bad weather. Many others might get by easily with 80% but don't make such a hobby out of charging their car and now just take it to 100% all the time out of convenience to be free of babysitting the charge rate and time. This just ends up costing Nissan with more battery warranties.

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