Looking at a used leaf - a few specific questions

Hello!

I am looking at a 2017 leaf, but am having a little trouble understanding some details, I have four questions:

1) At the dealer I unplugged it started it, and looked at the dash. It showed 100% and 12 bars. Does that mean the battery really is good as new?

2) I got to test drive it for a mile or two, with the heat on and the battery went from 67% to 54% which seemed rapid - is that a warning sign?

3) The insane dealer let me test drive it with tires so bad the steel wires were poking out. It vibrated while driving. I am waiting for them to replace the tires. Should I be worried about other damage from it being operated in this condition?

4) Under what level of degradation does the battery warranty kick in. I called a more professional dealer and they only spoke of cold cranking amps, not a range estimate.

EDIT: Sorry if the order of operations was unclear - the test drive starting at 67% was the day before I came back to see the car fully charged. I couldnt test drive it from 100% because the idiots still hadnt changed the tires despite telling me the car was ready and having me drive all the way there.

Thanks so much!

The state of charge when full will always show 100%, so that's meaningless. The 12 capacity bars is a good sign, but the battery management system can be reset to falsely show 12 bars when there are really fewer. Only a range test or charge capacity test will give the real battery capacity if this happened. The big initial drop in the range estimate is quite normal, especially if the previous test drive was gentle and yours was more brisk, or the heat was off during the previous drive. The range estimator (aka "Guess O Meter") uses just the last few minute of driving, so it is usually wrong at least at the start of a drive.

lovallo said:

1) At the dealer I unplugged it started it, and looked at the dash. It showed 100% and 12 bars. Does that mean the battery really is good as new?

2) I got to test drive it for a mile or two, with the heat on and the battery went from 67% to 54% which seemed rapid - is that a warning sign?

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How did the battery go from 100% to 67%? It sounds like while you were there, half the battery capacity was lost. How is that possible on a 40 kWh battery? When did the discharge happen?

You really need to take this car for an extended test drive, preferably on the highway with the heat on. Measure the miles traveled and the starting and ending capacity, as shown on the dash, as a percent. For instance, if you travel 10 miles and you lose 10% battery, then you can expect the range is 100 miles, on the highway, with the heat on. etc. etc.

Lothsahn said:

lovallo said:

1) At the dealer I unplugged it started it, and looked at the dash. It showed 100% and 12 bars. Does that mean the battery really is good as new?

2) I got to test drive it for a mile or two, with the heat on and the battery went from 67% to 54% which seemed rapid - is that a warning sign?

Click to expand...

How did the battery go from 100% to 67%? It sounds like while you were there, half the battery capacity was lost. How is that possible on a 40 kWh battery? When did the discharge happen?

Click to expand...

He's talking about a 30 kWh car, but your point is valid. Perhaps the 67 & 54 numbers were miles on the GOM.

css28 said:

Lothsahn said:

lovallo said:

1) At the dealer I unplugged it started it, and looked at the dash. It showed 100% and 12 bars. Does that mean the battery really is good as new?

2) I got to test drive it for a mile or two, with the heat on and the battery went from 67% to 54% which seemed rapid - is that a warning sign?

Click to expand...

How did the battery go from 100% to 67%? It sounds like while you were there, half the battery capacity was lost. How is that possible on a 40 kWh battery? When did the discharge happen?

Click to expand...

He's talking about a 30 kWh car, but your point is valid. Perhaps the 67 & 54 numbers were miles on the GOM.

Click to expand...

Ah, yes. 40kWh was 2018, not 2017.

Even so, 67 or 54 would be way *way* off for miles left on a 12 bar 30 kWh at 100% SOC. I get those GOM numbers on my 24kWh Leaf at 85% SOH at 80% SOC with the heat cranked in 32F weather. Something seems weird.

I don't know. If you warm the car up for 10 minutes, take it for a 5 mile test drive, lather, rinse, repeat few times--I could see that.

Our Prius had accumulated about 20 miles of test drives when we bought it and the trip meter estimated 24 mpg.

Ok I dont know what happened but it says my original post in this thread does not exist now so im reposting it here with an edit to clarify the range I tested:

Hello!

I am looking at a 2017 leaf, but am having a little trouble understanding some details, I have four questions:

1) At the dealer I unplugged it started it, and looked at the dash. It showed 100% and 12 bars. Does that mean the battery really is good as new? (got it - the health bar is actually at 11 bars.)

2) I got to test drive it for a mile or two, with the heat on and the battery went from 67% to 54% which seemed rapid - is that a warning sign? This is referring to the battery percent shown, not the miles left which i did not record.

3) The insane dealer let me test drive it with tires so bad the steel wires were poking out. It vibrated while driving. I am waiting for them to replace the tires. Should I be worried about other damage from it being operated in this condition?

4) Under what level of degradation does the battery warranty kick in. I called a more professional dealer and they only spoke of cold cranking amps, not a range estimate.

EDIT: Sorry if the order of operations was unclear - the test drive starting at 67% was the day before I came back to see the car fully charged. I couldnt test drive it from 100% because the idiots still hadnt changed the tires despite telling me the car was ready and having me drive all the way there.

Thanks so much!

Dear CSS28 - The board says I am too new to send you a direct message but thanks for reaching out.

here is the car I am looking at. I hope no one buys it before me from me posting here! I am beginning to suspect that the price is so low because they know it is beat up.

https://www.westernavenissan.com/search/used-nissan-leaf-chicago-il/?cy=60636&md=1053&tp=used

The leaf was made to go the distance in slow, low speed traffic and stop and go traffic.
Yeah a realistic test is get it out on the highway drive it at least 15 miles one way keeping up with traffic then come back and see what that does to the gom and soc%.
Also drive it on a cool day and crank up t he heat.

I DO NOT AGREE with the suggestions for "test drive"... You do not go out on the highway and "keep up with traffic". Traffic likes to go at 70-80 mph.

Do a 10-20 mile round trip on flat highway at about 55 mph... You should only be using about 1-1.5% of the battery per mile... No heat, ho air.

You do not want to do a "torture test". You want to do an experiment of a known, controlled amount of battery drain, and see that the battery is strong enough to hold its charge at the expected rate...

I had to approve several more posts. This will stop shortly, when you get enough posts to not require approval for them.

4) Under what level of degradation does the battery warranty kick in. I called a more professional dealer and they only spoke of cold cranking amps, not a range estimate.

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They were talking about the little 12 volt accessory battery. The capacity warranty on the main battery pack requires that the dash indicator drop from 12 capacity bars (the little ones next to the big charge bars) to 8, AND that the update for the battery management system have been performed. Then, if the mileage is less than 100,000 and the age is no more than 8 years, they replace the main battery pack.

This car has 11 capacity bars shown on the dashboard in the picture. 11 capacity bars means the battery has 77-85% capacity compared to new.

The health of the battery is the capacity bars (the little bars). This is shown on the dashboard of the car, and you can see it in one of the pictures the dealer has:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/peFNBoDhHLI/hqdefault.jpg

I would expect this car to get around 70-75 miles at 55 mph, and 50 mi at 70-80 mph in warm weather. In cold weather (32F) with the heat on, expect to lose around 20-30% range.

Here's what I would do:
Test drive the car again for 1/4 the expected range. If you see the range drop significantly beyond 25% over that drive, something may be wrong. For instance, if the car started at 67% and dropped below 35-40% during your drive, I would be concerned.

I can't speak to the price, as I haven't priced a 30 kWh Leaf recently, but 11 capacity bars indicates the main battery is in decent, but not great, shape. If you live somewhere hot, you're likely to get a battery replacement. Like Leftie said, the battery replacement triggers when you get down to 8 capacity bars (3 less than it currently has).

Like Leftie said, the battery replacement triggers when you get down to 8 capacity bars (3 less than it currently has).

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It's important with the 30kwh cars to always add "And only after the BMS update has been performed." Nissan requires it, and the update usually adds more than one capacity bar back, at least for a few months.

It looks like the listing is gone. Is it yours?

If you look at LEAFs with worn tires (which is common with the fast-wearing original tires and spirited driving), and it's the car you want, you might consider not having the dealership replace them. The dealership replaced the tires on the one I ended up with (with the wrong size), and I'm pretty sure I ended up paying for them through fuzzy dealer fees. I would have rather chosen the replacements myself (and likely would have paid less for them). They might be required to replace them before sale, though, especially if cords are showing.

A 30 kWh LEAF (with a B in the fourth place of the VIN for 2016-2017) goes about 1 mile per percent charge (shown as an information page in the center of the lower gauge cluster. Toggle through the information pages with the button with a square to the left of the steering wheel) in average driving conditions. When using the range estimator (right side of lower gauge cluster), check it with eco-mode (green-labeled button on right side of steering wheel) on and off. It changes the readings quite a bit, especially at higher charge levels.

I wouldn't think too much about the battery warranty. Choose a car that's likely to meet your driving needs for as long as you plan to own it. I wouldn't assume that Nissan will take care of a degraded battery.