greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:43 pm

EVDrive wrote:I don't like it when people try to change an agreement like this 7 months after we signed a contract. I think we need a better explanation from them at a minimum.
Here's my theory. My suspicion is that Ecotality will get additional money from each regional agency (in this case BAAQMD) for every user they could convince to agree to that regional agency's terms.

The regional agencies have only recently released their terms for payment -- they will pay Ecotality if they receive the usage data plus if certain additional terms are adhered (e.g. proof that the user is in the SF bay area). This explains why we are seeing the new terms.

But this really represents an additional revenue to Ecotality. Ecotality should already have the money that funds the installation of the EVSEs of the existing users from a prior funding source. Selling the data to BAAQMD is an additional bonus for Ecotality.
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:53 pm

earther wrote:
oakwcj wrote:Unless they offer some serious sweeteners, that's it...
The use for years of a free EVSE isn't sweet enough?
(not to mention that you get to participate in a study that could potentially provide key data in laying the foundation for an EV charging infrastructure in the usa).
I said I'd be happy to voluntarily continue providing the data, but I'm not about to enter into an amended contract that lets them make future changes at will. I didn't force Ecotality to end my commitment on December 31, 2012. That was the deal. And the contract I signed said no changes without written consent of both parties. That was their language. Why should I now allow them to make whatever changes they want whenever they want? If they want to retain ownership of my Blink for a longer period of time, they will have to provide consideration for that radical change in the contract.
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:08 pm

greenleaf wrote:
EVDrive wrote:I don't like it when people try to change an agreement like this 7 months after we signed a contract. I think we need a better explanation from them at a minimum.
Here's my theory. My suspicion is that Ecotality will get additional money from each regional agency (in this case BAAQMD) for every user they could convince to agree to that regional agency's terms.

The regional agencies have only recently released their terms for payment -- they will pay Ecotality if they receive the usage data plus if certain additional terms are adhered (e.g. proof that the user is in the SF bay area). This explains why we are seeing the new terms.

But this really represents an additional revenue to Ecotality. Ecotality should already have the money that funds the installation of the EVSEs of the existing users from a prior funding source. Selling the data to BAAQMD is an additional bonus for Ecotality.
The funding source for the residential EVSEs comes from DOE through the AARA act:

The United States Department of Energy (DOE) has provided funding through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) to accelerate the development and production of electric vehicles (EVs) in order to reduce petroleum consumption. To encourage the adoption of EVs, the DOE has undertaken the deployment of a large EV charging infrastructure in several cities in the United States. This program is known as the EV Project. Electric Transportation Engineering Corporation, doing business as ECOtality North America (ECOtality) was selected by the DOE as the Project Manager for the EV Project.

Because most vehicle charging will take place at the homes of EV drivers, a portion of the DOE funding supports the deployment of home charging units, called "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment" (EVSE). ECOtality will select up to 5,700 Nissan LEAF™ EV owners to participate in the EV Project.


The above has funded the EVSEs of existing users.

Now if you look at the budget of BAAQMD (p166 of the PDF below)

http://www.baaqmd.gov/~/media/Files/Fin ... ashx?la=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BAAQMD has allocated $5m (of which $3.1m is for professional services and contracts) to the EV deployment program, with the objective to complete 1500 residential chargers by 6/30/2012. They are charged with the research and evaluation of business models for charging infrastructure. I submit that part of this is additional money for Ecotality.
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

Turbo3
Gold Member
Posts: 2011
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:34 pm
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 002191
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:34 pm

Sounds like ECOtality is trying to get paid twice for the same EVSE. Once form DOE and now again from BAAQMD. Does not sound right.

oakwcj
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:01 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2441
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:01 pm

Turbo3 wrote:Sounds like ECOtality is trying to get paid twice for the same EVSE. Once form DOE and now again from BAAQMD. Does not sound right.
I wonder if DOE is even aware of this attempt by Ecotality to extend the contract term. The EV Project was originally scheduled to end at the end of 2012. Ecotality has been behind schedule from the beginning, even though that hasn't entirely been their fault. I can't see any indication on the EV Project website that the project has been extended. I did see the glossy 2nd Quarter 2011 report with a lot of color charts:

http://www.theevproject.com/downloads/d ... Report.pdf
Cayenne Red SL-e
Blink Installed 6/23/11

greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:18 pm

oakwcj wrote:I wonder if DOE is even aware of this attempt by Ecotality to extend the contract term. The EV Project was originally scheduled to end at the end of 2012. Ecotality has been behind schedule from the beginning, even though that hasn't entirely been their fault. I can't see any indication on the EV Project website that the project has been extended. I did see the glossy 2nd Quarter 2011 report with a lot of color charts:

http://www.theevproject.com/downloads/d ... Report.pdf
That's a very interesting PDF. In the SF bay area, I noticed most of the charging occurring after midnight, peaking at around 1am and very little charging before midnight. This is a distinct contrast to many other areas (with the exception of San Diego).

Maybe this is a testament to the effectiveness of people going on PG&E's E9 TOU schedule?
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

baumgrenze
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:17 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 16273
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:37 pm

I just reexamined my BAAQMD revised contract and read the following:

This Agreement is entered into on November 10, 2011 (The Effective Date) between:

"participant information"

This Agreement shall commence on the Effective Date and shall continue until April 30, 2013 unless terminated earlier (the “Term”).

The contract I signed previously reads"

This Agreement is entered into on October 1, 2011 between

"participant information"

This Agreement shall commence on the Effective Date and shall continue until April 30, 2013 unless terminated earlier (the "Term"). The Agreement may be terminated early as set forth herein.

I see no change in the period of the contract. In my case, the car is to be delivered "sometime in December 2011 - moved out 1 month in November 2011." The electrician is engaged in pulling a building permit. In Palo Alto this is no triviality. If all goes according to plan the Blink should be installed shortly before delivery. This means that Ecototality owns the Blink for December 2011, all of 2012, and 4 months of 2013.

As I read the contract, I noticed the $700 to be paid to cover the cost of the direct "quick charge" DC charging port. I have two questions:

1) When the quick charge was included in the SEe version of the new model, did the $700 get added to the price?

2) If so, is the EV Project rebating $700 on these cars, too?

Thanks,

baumgrenze
Thanks,

baumgrenze

2012 Glacier Pearl

mxp
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:32 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: Fremont, CA

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:35 pm

Has anyone here simply just ignored the email? What's really gonna happen?

I am certainly not planning to sign something that extends the duration of the EVSE commitment.

greenleaf
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:19 am

mxp wrote:Has anyone here simply just ignored the email? What's really gonna happen?

I am certainly not planning to sign something that extends the duration of the EVSE commitment.
I am going to ignore it for now. If they send the request again, I will reply and ask them "didn't we already have a contract?".

And if they say there are modifications, I will request them to highlight the changes so that I can review them. At that point, it will be pretty clear to them that there is no consideration for me to sign the new terms.

In my opinion, they are trying to pull a fast one and simply relying on people not reading the new terms to just click on "AGREE".
2011 Leaf: reserved 4/2010, delivered 3/2011 (VIN 9XX), sold 2/2014.
EVP Blink EVSE installed 4/2011.
OpenEVSE installed 3/2014.
3.22 kW DC Solar PV.

rickrides
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 11:03 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 8861
Location: SF Bay Area, Danville, Cal

Re: New Bay Area Blink/EVP agreeement?!!

Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:22 pm

I'm sure glad I found this thread. I'm not going to sign the new agreement.
Ordered: 5/24/11 Boardwalk Nissan, thanks, Brendan
SL-e, white, floor mats, organization package.
Arrived at dealer: 9/13/11
Picked up: 9/17/11
Turned in 7/2014
Leased RAV4 EV 6/2014...Love it!
2004.5 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel

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