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Boomer23
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:45 am

Tony, did you try the "B" mode at any time? I'm interested in whether regen is stronger compared to earlier LEAFs. comparing the earlier cars' ECO mode to the new cars' B mode.

Thanks.
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TomT
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:01 am

I drove a 2013 this weekend and was actually surprised at how little additional regen there was in B... I had expected a bigger difference. It was at 75% SOC at the start so should not have been battery limited...
Boomer23 wrote:Tony, did you try the "B" mode at any time? I'm interested in whether regen is stronger compared to earlier LEAFs. comparing the earlier cars' ECO mode to the new cars' B mode.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:11 am

Reason number "too many" why I like Gid2% over regular old Gids.

At 43.2 miles into the trip, which was just a bit past the halfway point, the Gid count went from 141 to 140 (50.2% to 49.8% Gid). I really thought I might make it on the 85.8 mile course, right?

Except for the problem; I'm not at the halfway point with usable energy. That point is 144 or 51.2% Gid, or 50% Gid2.

Gid2%:

Full charge, 70F non-degraded battery: 100 ((281 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 100% * 21 = 21kWh

Half way point, 70F non-degraded batt: 100 ((144 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 50% * 21 = 10.5kWh

Depleted battery at Turtle mode: 100 ((7 -7) / (281 - 7)) = 0% * 21 = 0kWh
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:12 am

Boomer23 wrote:Tony, did you try the "B" mode at any time? I'm interested in whether regen is stronger compared to earlier LEAFs. comparing the earlier cars' ECO mode to the new cars' B mode.

Thanks.
No regen "B" mode in the LEAF-S.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:17 am

drees wrote:The GOM does seem pretty accurate compared to older cars. I assume it still increases the GOM by 10% when putting the car into ECO mode from D? I noted that the car said 77 miles at the beginning of the video - I presume that the 84 you saw was after putting it into ECO mode.
The whole "car wouldn't start" thing really screwed up some note-taking, but I did observe 84 miles on the GOM when the car was charged up, because I even commented on it. But, then I reset everything with the 12 volt disconnect, and I suspect that has something to do with the 77 miles in the video.

I did not notice if it did the crazy increase in range that the 2011-2012 does in ECO mode. It doesn't appear so, since I used ECO the whole way.

Based on this really easy test of the GOM, it did very well.

After reviewing the video, I see that the battery temperature was both at 5 and 6 bars at various parts of the course, so overall, the gauge was very close to what I would expect the battery to be at, about 74F... just slightly above ambient while getting an easy workout at steady speed.

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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:58 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
drees wrote:The GOM does seem pretty accurate compared to older cars. I assume it still increases the GOM by 10% when putting the car into ECO mode from D? I noted that the car said 77 miles at the beginning of the video - I presume that the 84 you saw was after putting it into ECO mode.
Hi all: It took two overnight sessions to charge back to 100% on the trickle charge after the test. When I reviewed the GOM this morning at 100% charge I had 102 miles. I put it in gear (to see if it functioning properly and it dropped to 100 immediately). Since my highest noted number was in the high 80's before, is this a matter of the car liking Tony's driving style, or somethings else? I previously thought it was a function of the KWM indicator (which read 4.1-4.2 before and after the test). There must be more to this than I understand. Thx, Bob
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:04 am

"DaveinOlyWA" ...doesnt matter who is doing the test, there is very limited conclusions that can be made from a single run...
Correct, which is why I have done dozens of range tests on an identical route under varying conditions, to as accurately as possible, measure the effects of known range variables such as speed, battery and ambient temperature, etc., on the results.
A few months after I got got my LEAF, with about 3,300 miles on the odometer, I decided to use a range test from a 100% charge to near the VLBW, to try to determine how driving variables effect energy use, and changes in range and/or battery capacity over time. After I realized that Carwings was updated and reporting consistently, I could further correlate range to actual kWh use, and battery capacity. When testing, I log speed, capacity bar disappearance (and appearance) , battery warnings, and (more recently) temperature. I would suggest any LEAF owner only interested in tracking battery capacity, just watch the total kWh use reports, to provide more precise information than provided by the dash displays...
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Bob or any other 2013 LEAFer really wants test his LEAF's range against a 2011-2 LEAF, with the greatest accuracy, the obvious course of action would be to run a test, matching the route and all other range variables against a documented test of a 2011 or 2012 LEAF.

Of the hundreds of 2011-12 LEAF owners in The San Diego area, not one ever documented single range test for Bob, or any other 2013 owner in the region, to use a a control?

IMO, a single retest under identical conditions should give us a useful indication of range, for whatever those single-test conditions were.

If any San Diego owner had completed multiple well documented range tests, and if Bob or other LEAFers would be willing do the same, we would have much better data, of course.
"DaveinOlyWA" ...more data will come in, just be patient. this is a great start and does provide baseline info that is valuable...
Yes, assuming Tony's conflicting reports of his temperature bar observations are resolved, you would be able to compare other LEAFs to Bob's results in future tests.

But I remain hopeful someone in San Diego with a 2011 or 2012 had the foresight to establish a "baseline" for those MYs already, as there may be no "new" 2011-12s left today, available for a range test.
Last edited by edatoakrun on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:08 am

bobsfreeleaf wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
drees wrote:The GOM does seem pretty accurate compared to older cars. I assume it still increases the GOM by 10% when putting the car into ECO mode from D? I noted that the car said 77 miles at the beginning of the video - I presume that the 84 you saw was after putting it into ECO mode.
Hi all: It took two overnight sessions to charge back to 100% on the trickle charge after the test. When I reviewed the GOM this morning at 100% charge I had 102 miles. I put it in gear (to see if it functioning properly and it dropped to 100 immediately). Since my highest noted number was in the high 80's before, is this a matter of the car liking Tony's driving style, or somethings else? I previously thought it was a function of the KWM indicator (which read 4.1-4.2 before and after the test). There must be more to this than I understand. Thx, Bob
This is pretty standard GOM performance. It relies on your past performance to guess how far you'll drive in the future, but it's going to be rarely right. For instance, our total drive at my garage was 90 miles, and that was virtually at Turtle. There was not a chance the car would go much closer to 100, yet through the wonder of GOM programming (producing 4 trees through steady driving, particularly the last almost 20 miles (13 miles from VLB "---" to my house, and another 7 to your house at slower speeds) has concluded 100 miles is in the bag.

If you want to REALLY know how far the car is likely to go, do not use the GOM. In a nutshell, as long as that car has that new smell, and it doesn't get too cold, your battery will have 21kWh available. If you start every day by resetting your dash trip meter and dash economy setting (the miles/kWh), you will have an excellent tools to determine your range. It will always be "miles/kWh * 21 = range" until the battery either gets cold, starts to degrade, or both. If you can keep daily economy at 4 (or above), the car will have a range of 4 * 21 = 84 miles.

In the first year to 18 months, expect 10% degradation to 18.9kWh, and before you turn the car in at 36-39 months, expect 15-20% or 16.8kWh. Therefore, if you're still getting 4 miles/kWh, then 4 * 16.8 = 67.2 miles of range.

Then, should the car EVER get to freezing temps (30F), subtract 10% from whatever capacity the battery has. If it's about 50F, subtract 5%. That means that at the end of the lease, that 67 miles of range becomes 5% to 10% on a cold day. If you run the heater, you can throw the 4 miles/kWh out the window, and may have 3 * 16.8 = 50.4 miles.

Once you have a good idea of the capacity of a given day, then you need to guess the economy (miles/kWh). You'll learn what is normal very quickly because you will reset it every day. I could average 4 miles/kWh easily around town, and as you know, the car will do the same down the freeway at 65mph.

Then, you'll learn what adjustments to make. If you're going to run that heater, it will take a bunch of economy, where cruising down the level freeway at 65mph might only get 3 miles/kWh. Going up hill will consume more than downhill. As you noted in our drive, going from 500 feet elevation the 20 miles to downtown at near sea level showed about 4.2miles/kWh.

Anyway, those are the big things. Check out the range chart linked in my signature line.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:33 am

edatoakrun wrote:Yes, assuming Tony's conflicting reports of his temperature bar observations are resolved, you would be able to compare other LEAFs to Bob's in future tests.

But I remain hopeful someone in San Diego with a 2011 or 2012 had the foresight to establish a "baseline" for those MYs already, as there may be no "new" 2011-12s left today, available for a range test.
EdDA,

You continue to blow hot air about things that are clearly above your skill set and I don't know why. You seem to be vying for my attention, and I don't know why you need that validation. Unfortunately, you're the quintessential boil on my ass that needs to be popped. I thought you'd go away like the other blights we've had on here who faded into the sunset. Clearly, I was wrong, and I'm remiss in not taking proactive steps to fix that.

Like your numerous unsuccessful attempts to convince folks that your whacky thoughts are pertinent, unfortunately for you, this stuff that is clearly over your head. Why don't you keep consuming your favorite neighborhood pharmaceutical of the day and you leave the heavy lifting to folks who just aren't you.

You've earned your new title; EdDA.

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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:02 am

I suppose we may be able to conclude from the comment made by Tony below, that he may never have actually undertaken a range test with either one of his LEAFs that a San Diego area LEAFer with a 2013 can now use as a control in an accurate range comparison test.

Any one else San Diego able to help us here?

How about LEAFers elsewhere, where 2013's will be available for testing soon.

Would you please consider doing comparison tests between the 2013 and one of the earlier LEAFs?

IMO, the more range tests completed, particularly in more varied and "real world" driving conditions than Tony attempted to test, the more we will know.

TonyWilliams wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:Yes, assuming Tony's conflicting reports of his temperature bar observations are resolved, you would be able to compare other LEAFs to Bob's in future tests.

But I remain hopeful someone in San Diego with a 2011 or 2012 had the foresight to establish a "baseline" for those MYs already, as there may be no "new" 2011-12s left today, available for a range test.
EdDA,

You continue to blow hot air about things that are clearly above your skill set and I don't know why. You seem to be vying for my attention, and I don't know why you need that validation. Unfortunately, you're the quintessential boil on my ass that needs to be popped. I thought you'd go away like the other blights we've had on here who faded into the sunset. Clearly, I was wrong, and I'm remiss in not taking proactive steps to fix that.

Like your numerous unsuccessful attempts to convince folks that your whacky thoughts are pertinent, unfortunately for you, this stuff that is clearly over your head. Why don't you keep consuming your favorite neighborhood pharmaceutical of the day and you leave the heavy lifting to folks who just aren't you.

You've earned your new title; EdDA.
no condition is permanent

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