edatoakrun
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:58 pm

garygid wrote:The battery temperature bar 5 covers 50 to 74 degrees F,
I believe, not 50 to 100. Probably a typo in the first post?
Actually, Tony claimed:
...Battery temperature segments displayed 6, indicating temperatures between approximately 50F (10C) to 100F (38C)...
But glad to see someone finally asked about the most important data Tony chose to umm, gloss over...

Bob, can you estimate what your battery temperature was during the final charge? You didn't happen to park Your LEAF in a garage heated to say ~80 F, for many hours prior to the test, did you?

You could have had a battery temperature in San Diego in February close to the same as that in Phoenix in September, As Tony implies, but it would certainly have required some sort of "active battery temperature management" to get it there.
no condition is permanent

lukati
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:33 pm

Tony, can you comment on the performance of the MY13 DTE display during the test? Substantially improved or still a GOM?

bobsfreeleaf
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Leaf Number: 400283
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:41 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
garygid wrote:The battery temperature bar 5 covers 50 to 74 degrees F,
I believe, not 50 to 100. Probably a typo in the first post?
Actually, Tony claimed:
...Battery temperature segments displayed 6, indicating temperatures between approximately 50F (10C) to 100F (38C)...
But glad to see someone finally asked about the most important data Tony chose to umm, gloss over...

Bob, can you estimate what your battery temperature was during the final charge? You didn't happen to park Your LEAF in a garage heated to say ~80 F, for many hours prior to the test, did you?

You could have had a battery temperature in San Diego in February close to the same as that in Phoenix in September, As Tony implies, but it would certainly have required some sort of "active battery temperature management" to get it there.
Hi: Temperature in my garage while charging the morning of, and day before, was generally low 50's to mid 60's. Thx, Bob
Slate 2013 Nissan Leaf Model S, no upgrades. $219/mo lease; $15/mo charging solution
Bobsfreeleaf

GRA
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:47 pm

The range test I'd most like to see would be of a 2013 SV or SL on the freeway at 65 or 70 mph (in D, preferably, but Eco is okay) using cruise control, with an OAT between 20 and 32 degrees and the Climate control set at say 70, with the car driven from 80% SoC to LBW. I consider that the most representative of how normal people would drive their car while commuting, and establishing that range would be very useful.

That's a bit hard for Tony in San Diego, but hopefully someone who gets a 2013 in the SF Bay Area or somewhere with similar temps can try it before winter officially ends. As it is, while we had some cold days this month, it's been notably dry since December barring one or two small storms.
Last edited by GRA on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:59 pm

lukati wrote:Tony, can you comment on the performance of the MY13 DTE display during the test? Substantially improved or still a GOM?
Well, I did observe that it was very, very good compared to previous versions, and let's face it... driving at a steady speed should be throwing the GOM a softball. At the start it showed 84 miles, and at the halfway point, it showed about 43 miles. About as good as I can hope.

I would say it's at least on par with the Rav4 on level terrain, which is quite good. I just heard that Tesla is going to route predictive GOM with elevation and temperature!! Not surprising coming from them, and it's bound to trickle down. Heck, now I want wind factored, too.

I have no idea how well the GOM will handle real hills yet. Maybe somebody will drive one up to Julian and tell us what the GOM says at 4000 feet from sea level.

edatoakrun
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:56 pm

bobsfreeleaf wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
garygid wrote:The battery temperature bar 5 covers 50 to 74 degrees F,
I believe, not 50 to 100. Probably a typo in the first post?
Actually, Tony claimed:
...Battery temperature segments displayed 6, indicating temperatures between approximately 50F (10C) to 100F (38C)...
But glad to see someone finally asked about the most important data Tony chose to umm, gloss over...

Bob, can you estimate what your battery temperature was during the final charge? You didn't happen to park Your LEAF in a garage heated to say ~80 F, for many hours prior to the test, did you?

You could have had a battery temperature in San Diego in February close to the same as that in Phoenix in September, As Tony implies, but it would certainly have required some sort of "active battery temperature management" to get it there.
Hi: Temperature in my garage while charging the morning of, and day before, was generally low 50's to mid 60's. Thx, Bob
Thanks Bob.

I noticed Tony has now corrected (?) his "article" here:

http://insideevs.com/real-world-test-20 ... eaf-range/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But not his post on this thread, and now states:
Ok, at least one mistake in my data was pointed out; the battery temperature was between 50.5F and 74.3F with 5 temperature bars showing, not 50F – 100F.
If your car began and ended the drive with 5 temperature bars, and the bars express the same temperatures in the 2013 MY as in the 2011-12, your car appears to likely have both charged and the ran test with a battery somewhere between 25 F and 35 F cooler than the 6/7 temperature bar test LEAF which Tony is using as a reference. So, if your 2013 has the same available battery capacity as the earlier LEAF, you probably had about a 3-5% lower battery capacity to begin with.

The unknown but obviously significant lower ambient temperature, the lower altitude, Tony's extra weight in your LEAF, and the likely inability of Tony to match the driving efficiency of the cruise control used in the earlier test, were all additional handicaps your LEAF suffered, in the range comparison to the LEAF driven in Tony's poorly documented Arizona reference test.

So Tony's conclusion that your range test shows:
There is no more nor any less range with a 2013 LEAF under these conditions that a 2011 or 2012
Is in my opinion, clearly erroneous.

This does not mean that the 2013 LEAF necessarily has greater range than a 2011-12 in these, or in any or all other test conditions. It just means that we will have to wait for a competent party to perform a better-designed test, to reach any useful conclusions.

I hope you and other 2013 LEAF drivers will continue to give it a try, and as I suggested earlier, also monitor recharge capacity after any range tests, as I think this is also very useful information to collect from any "100%" to known low-state of charge event.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:10 pm

edatoakrun wrote: It just means that we will have to wait for a competent party to perform a better-designed test, to reach any useful conclusions.
It no surprise to anybody on this forum that you are a bag of hot air who brings nothing to the LEAF ownership knowledge base.

Why don't you get off your lazy ass and go do your own test? Clearly, nobody can do it quite like you!

Please, regale us with some more of your bullshit.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:13 pm

edatoakrun wrote: It just means that we will have to wait for a competent party to perform a better-designed test, to reach any useful conclusions.
bit over the top dont you think?

doesnt matter who is doing the test, there is very limited conclusions that can be made from a single run.

the design of the test is sound but there is a consideration concerning the amount of personal time involved with even a single run.

more data will come in, just be patient. this is a great start and does provide baseline info that is valuable
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:01 am


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DaveEV
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Re: 2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:37 am

The video is great, Tony - lots of info in there.

The dash gauges at the end of your drive also confirm the 21 kWh usable - I noted 4.2 mi/kWh and 89 miles which comes to 21.2 kWh usable.

The in-dash SOC meter seems to be very useful - it's too bad Nissan didn't include one of those from the start. It will be interesting to see how it behaves as the battery degrades - would be interesting to see what it reads on a 80%/100% charge on a new car.

The GOM does seem pretty accurate compared to older cars. I assume it still increases the GOM by 10% when putting the car into ECO mode from D? I noted that the car said 77 miles at the beginning of the video - I presume that the 84 you saw was after putting it into ECO mode.

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