LeftieBiker
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:43 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:31 pm
The only issue with the 20-16 and 17 30-kWh batteries was the software bug that was displaying excessive degradation. The update in 2018 fixed that, but I am surprised at how many cars never had the update done.

http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/exclusi ... ttery-fix/

Oddly, you don't seem to be aware of the numerous 30kwh packs that had the update done, and have now lost 2-4 capacity bars anyway.
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OrientExpress
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leafu

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:47 pm

No, there are always out of bounds failures. But that was not was I was taking about.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leafu

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:55 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:47 pm
No, there are always out of bounds failures. But that was not was I was taking about.
Uh huh.
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johnlocke
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leafu

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:42 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:47 pm
No, there are always out of bounds failures. But that was not was I was taking about.
30 KWH batteries still suffer from excessive degradation and the replacement batteries are only marginally better. After a year and a half and 30,000 miles, my replacement battery is down 13%. By the time I hit the warranty limit the second battery will be down 25%. And that's after all the software upgrades. The 30 KWH battery will fail early in any excessively warm climate. Conversely, it does well in cool climates. That is not accidental but a result of Nissan's decision to go with passive cooling. Blowing it off as "out of bounds" failures does a disservice to anyone struggling with excessive degradation. Remember that Nissan stated that they expected this battery to " typically retain 80% of the original capacity at 100,000 miles or 8 years." They didn't add"only in cool climates." Nissan's apparent decision to start replacing defective 30 KWH batteries with 40 KWH batteries is an indication that even Nissan thinks the 30 KWH batteries are marginal at best.
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OrientExpress
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:31 pm

That’s a good data point. I knew that the 30 kWh batteries were much better than the earlier ones, but weren’t quite there. In 16 and 17 the 40 and 62kWh battery was already in durability testing in Stanfield Arizona, and it was looking very promising.

Looks like the third try is the charm, the 40s seem to perform as good as other active cooling batteries but cheaper and that’s why the 40 is now the warranty replacement. I’m glad to see it.

Now what would be an extra credit bonus would be to package the new chemistry cells in a 24 kWh package for the old school LEAFs.
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Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:59 pm

I knew that the 30 kWh batteries were much better than the earlier ones, but weren’t quite there.
No. Both the 4/2013 - 2014 "Wolf Pack" and the 2015-2016 "Lizard Pack" are better batteries than the 30kwh "Lettuce Pack" batteries - especially in warmer climates. So far the Lizard is the best pack that Nissan has made, at least until the 62kwh packs prove otherwise.
Now what would be an extra credit bonus would be to package the new chemistry cells in a 24 kWh package for the old school LEAFs.
That's what you'd have if they still manufactured Lizard packs. Using the new higher capacity cells would result in either physically smaller and lighter 24kwh packs, or, well, the existing 40 or 62kwh packs. (The 62kwh pack wouldn't fit without modifications to the car as has been done recently by our non-Nissan leaf experts.)
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joeriv
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:01 am

The data from the Geotab Study does not support your conclusions:

2017 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 94.7
2016 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 93.9
2015 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 89.0
2014 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 89.6
2013 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 92.1

It would be terrific if we could get the underlying data but not possible. I think the latter years are more robust simply because there were more Leafs around than for the early years, but that's a guess on my part. FWIW my 2017S is at 95.6 SOH after 2 1/2 years.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:59 pm

joeriv wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:01 am
The data from the Geotab Study does not support your conclusions:

2017 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 94.7
2016 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 93.9
2015 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 89.0
2014 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 89.6
2013 Leaf SOH at 2 years 8 months - 92.1

It would be terrific if we could get the underlying data but not possible. I think the latter years are more robust simply because there were more Leafs around than for the early years, but that's a guess on my part. FWIW my 2017S is at 95.6 SOH after 2 1/2 years.
These cars were all in the same location...?
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danrjones
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:40 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:31 pm
Looks like the third try is the charm, the 40s seem to perform as good as other active cooling batteries but cheaper and that’s why the 40 is now the warranty replacement. I’m glad to see it.
I do not believe that. My 2018 has 7 months on it and I'm down around 91%. I have seen data on Tesla and Chevy Bolt batteries and they do not loose close to 10% that quickly.

Cheaper yes. As good? No.
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GaleHawkins
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Re: 40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:55 pm

danrjones wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:40 pm
OrientExpress wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:31 pm
Looks like the third try is the charm, the 40s seem to perform as good as other active cooling batteries but cheaper and that’s why the 40 is now the warranty replacement. I’m glad to see it.
I do not believe that. My 2018 has 7 months on it and I'm down around 91%. I have seen data on Tesla and Chevy Bolt batteries and they do not loose close to 10% that quickly.

Cheaper yes. As good? No.
Wish I had not read that. Well going from a ran of 45-60 with the 30 after 38 months to 150 miles hopefully with the 40 kWh will be a plus at least. With min side trips I can just charge once every 2 days instead of twice a day.

I was surprised the Roe 41 kWh battery is liquid cooled and reports a 400 km range per a article I read last week.

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