Battery Upgrades

Getting a LOT of conflicting information and beginning to wonder how much of it might be true.

As we know, Nissan is warrantying 30 kwh LEAFs with 40 kwh packs. Why? Well who knows? There is unconfirmed speculation that Nissan simply didn't have any 30 kwh packs which was NEVER verified by Nissan itself.

And up to this point; Nissan has not sold any packs that were still under the degradation warranty which implies only 24 kwh packs are for sale.

We also know that Nissan has stated a "few" times that 24 kwh packs could not be upgraded to a larger pack no matter what which is the same as "we are not for sale"

Which brings me to the point.

Recently a 24 kwh LEAFer went thru the process to cost a replacement pack and was told by a dealer he could get a 30 kwh pack for $6500. (price seems a bit familiar...)

It would also appear that everyone else warrantying a 30 kwh pack outside North America is getting a 30 kwh pack.

So wondering

1) has anyone started the process to "buy" a replacement pack and if so what are you replacing, what are you getting and how much will it be?

2) Has anyone recently completed the above process with same questions on price, capacity, etc.

It would be relatively easy for Nissan to create a solution for retrofitting 40kWh packs to the 2014+ 24kWh LEAFs. But to get them working with the 2011-2013 LEAF is a whole other story.

I still think they use 40kWh packs as replacements for the 30kWh due to cost. It is cheaper to manufacture the 40kWh packs from the screenshots leaked from the internal price system that Nissan uses. So it isn't goodwill, it is just economics.

Dala said:

It would be relatively easy for Nissan to create a solution for retrofitting 40kWh packs to the 2014+ 24kWh LEAFs. But to get them working with the 2011-2013 LEAF is a whole other story.

I still think they use 40kWh packs as replacements for the 30kWh due to cost. It is cheaper to manufacture the 40kWh packs from the screenshots leaked from the internal price system that Nissan uses. So it isn't goodwill, it is just economics.

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Well unlike the EU, the 40 for 30 warranty exchange has become the standard in the US and Canada. But up till now, I haven't heard anything but a 24 to 24 swap warranty or purchase but now "one" person has stated they would be sold a 30 kwh pack for their 2013 which would be a major change for Nissan. Just looking for anyone else who received the same offer or has completed the upgrade?

Dala said:

It would be relatively easy for Nissan to create a solution for retrofitting 40kWh packs to the 2014+ 24kWh LEAFs. But to get them working with the 2011-2013 LEAF is a whole other story.

I still think they use 40kWh packs as replacements for the 30kWh due to cost. It is cheaper to manufacture the 40kWh packs from the screenshots leaked from the internal price system that Nissan uses. So it isn't goodwill, it is just economics.

Click to expand...

Do you mean 2011-2012? Not sure about Europe but in N. America it's the '11's and '12's that are quite a bit different than the 2013 model year Leafs, or am I missing something? I only ask as I didn't think much changed from '13 to '14 in regards to the battery, at least in N. America.

jjeff said:

Dala said:

It would be relatively easy for Nissan to create a solution for retrofitting 40kWh packs to the 2014+ 24kWh LEAFs. But to get them working with the 2011-2013 LEAF is a whole other story.

I still think they use 40kWh packs as replacements for the 30kWh due to cost. It is cheaper to manufacture the 40kWh packs from the screenshots leaked from the internal price system that Nissan uses. So it isn't goodwill, it is just economics.

Click to expand...

Do you mean 2011-2012? Not sure about Europe but in N. America it's the '11's and '12's that are quite a bit different than the 2013 model year Leafs, or am I missing something? I only ask as I didn't think much changed from '13 to '14 in regards to the battery, at least in N. America.

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Could be different in EU since the primary driver of the change was the launch of the American and English battery plants in 2013. In the case of the US, the early 2013's were still coming from Japan due to a delay that caused a production gap of 2 months? or so for the US launch.

This is also why if buying a 2013, you want build date of April or later.

In the case of the US, the early 2013's were still coming from Japan due to a delay that caused a production gap of 2 months? or so for the US launch.

This is also why if buying a 2013, you want build date of April or later.

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Cites? It's my understanding that the 2013 MY Leaf was produced in North America from the start (or at least the start of 2013), with the old battery chemistry being used - albeit in the new cases - until April. I don't think that the US 2013 was produced in Japan in significant numbers. I believe that the only Japanese component that was present in early 2013 but not later on in the year was the "guts" of the cells.

Has anyone seen an early 2013 Leaf with a Japanese build location on the door sticker?

The last 24 kWh warranty claims will expire late 2021/early 2022 from the MY 2016 production.

Unless Nissan has **no** 24 kWh packs and has decided to hoard a few 30 kWh packs for that use because a 40 kWh pack replacement would be more difficult, I don't see how this story makes sense.

For now I just hope that the 30 kWh pack replacement into a 24 kWh LEAF by Nissan is true. That would be a major Nissan shift.

DaveinOlyWA said:

As we know, Nissan is warrantying 30 kwh LEAFs with 40 kwh packs. Why? Well who knows? There is unconfirmed speculation that Nissan simply didn't have any 30 kwh packs which was NEVER verified by Nissan itself.

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Not sure what you mean by unconfirmed speculation. See page 1 of https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171230-0001.pdf (NTB20-001 from Jan 7, 2020) re: 30 kWh pack being discontinued, hence them installing 40 kWh packs as a replacements for 30's.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171223-0001.pdf (NTB14-059d) also from that date says what to do about 24 kWh packs. From the 14, that TSB began in 2014. I don't have that handy but the a revision of NTB14-059a from Sept 2015 is at https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/SB-10058818-5991.pdf.

update: Found original NTB14-059 at https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/104357/1ul37.

Recently a 24 kwh LEAFer went thru the process to cost a replacement pack and was told by a dealer he could get a 30 kwh pack for $6500. (price seems a bit familiar...)

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Even at that price, it's not very tempting when a used 2018 LEAF, with a 40 kWh pack, is priced starting at $15k USD in the PNW. If I were to replace my 2013 with a 2018, my net cost for the upgrade would be roughly $8k and I'd end up with a car that's 5 years younger.

For the sake of comparison, adjusting for the pack size difference:

40 kWh/30 kWh x $6500 = $8667

So, even if I could buy a new 40 kWh pack from Nissan, it wouldn't make any sense to do that AFAIK.

For as long as LEAFs continue to depreciate at their current rate, getting into the pack upgrade business isn't really profitable in the US market.

The only exception to that is if one can acquire a LEAF with a heavily degraded pack for $3k or so - that's worth considering for a pack upgrade

alozzy said:

Recently a 24 kwh LEAFer went thru the process to cost a replacement pack and was told by a dealer he could get a 30 kwh pack for $6500. (price seems a bit familiar...)

Click to expand...

Even at that price, it's not very tempting when a used 2018 LEAF, with a 40 kWh pack, is priced starting at $15k USD in the PNW. If I were to replace my 2013 with a 2018, my net cost for the upgrade would be roughly $8k and I'd end up with a car that's 5 years younger.

For the sake of comparison, adjusting for the pack size difference:

40 kWh/30 kWh x $6500 = $8667

So, even if I could buy a new 40 kWh pack from Nissan, it wouldn't make any sense to do that AFAIK.

For as long as LEAFs continue to depreciate at their current rate, getting into the pack upgrade business isn't really profitable in the US market.

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Yeah, price quotes just too similar. Just another customer misinformed by their dealer.

^^^
Getting the part number of whatever the dealer would order would solve the mystery.

cwerdna said:

^^^
Getting the part number of whatever the dealer would order would solve the mystery.

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Well, he is not commenting anymore. I contended his replacement was 24 kwh at the beginning and he countered and has decided the $6500 wasn't worth the money so he is scrapping a car he bought just a few months ago. My guess is his misinformation started well before his dealership visit.

Strangely enough, another LEAFer with near identical story who knew better and he tried to nail the dealer down to a printed statement of the pack he would be buying but couldn't be done so he ended up with a 40 kwh with 40,000 miles on it for $14K instead.