Zythryn
Posts: 1112
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Level 3 at home

Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:30 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:02 pm
Marktm wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:10 am
When the EV, DC charge ports allow protocols for bidirectional energy
...
Seems Nissan is getting close to actually sanctioning (warranting) the bidirectional part. We'll see.
The V2H part with Leafs via CHAdeMO has been going on in Japan for years.

http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/produ ... ew124.html
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 49#p504949
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 92#p510092 - one of the links there is dead but one can see a snapshot at https://web.archive.org/web/20171017020 ... index.html

Unknown off the top of my head if it actually works on US market Leafs and on which model years/build month ranges.
The tech is available, the grid and associated regulations in the USA won’t allow it. That is a much bigger issue that will take time.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
http://www.netzeromn.com

cwerdna
Posts: 9811
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Level 3 at home

Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:36 pm

SalisburySam wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:28 am
cwerdna wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:40 pm
Unfortunately, no US Teslas have more than 1 inlet, so no. Would be nice.
I believe the Tesla Semi has multiple charging ports to speed charging for its humongous battery. But no, none of the automobiles does.
Earlier reports (photographing supposedly not allowed) said it was actually some hub where multiple SC cables were attached to.

https://electrek.co/2018/08/25/tesla-se ... elon-musk/
People who have witnessed Tesla Semi prototypes charging at Supercharger stations have told Electrek that the system made of extension cords plugs into several Supercharger stalls at the same time and into several charge ports on the truck.

They weren’t able to take any picture of the contraption aside from the one we see above.
https://electricrevs.com/2019/02/15/how ... esla-semi/

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

powersurge
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Level 3 at home

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:43 am

SalisburySam wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:28 am
powersurge wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:09 am
...Leaf owners are cheap as hell.
Beg to disagree. Ordered my LEAF in 2010 for a $99 deposit. Back then a deposit on a non-existent car was a huge risk or lunacy, your call. When they became available, my supposed 2011 model became a 2012, and I took delivery Feb, 2012. Out the door it was almost exactly $40K, not a small amount now or back in 2012. I was cheap enough to not get a Model S or Roadster, but $40k is still a pretty good bag o’ shekels, at least pour moi.
I am sorry, I did not want to insult Leaf owners as all being "cheap". We are a very select group of technology, ecology, and anti-petroleum enthusiasts who have chosen to adopt the "Leaf Lifestyle"... I have no problem plugging and unplugging the car daily. I have no problem with the car's limitations.

However, I refer to Leaf owners as being "cheap" in the sense that (on a daily basis) I read posts of people complaining about some minor maintenance costs, or stating that they hate the car and will get rid of it if they have to spend more than $500 on a repair. Also, I have always been a proponent of getting a 240 Volt "EVSE" charger in your home. I have continued to get complaints from posters when I stated that a home charger was "The only way to go" if you own a Leaf. So many comments have been written that they have a right to not spend such high sums for installation if they do not "have the money"...

So, in those cases i say that Many Leaf drivers are "cheap". If you do not have the money for a suggested charger upgrade, then don't complain about a good suggestion. Just keep on charging on your slow charger.

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Level 3 at home

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:19 am

Oh I'm cheap as hell no offense taken.
I'm anti petrochemical use as far as there just isn't any reason to burn gasoline for the vast majority of passenger car transportation.
Still need asphalt for roads, diesel for international commerce and lube oils.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

GaleHawkins
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Level 3 at home

Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:29 pm

I think Level 3 at home would be cool but since I sleep at least 5 hours nightly at home there really is nothing L3 can do for me that L2 is not doing now since from Empty to Full is 5 hours max in our case with current sizes of batteries. When EV's down the road have 200-300 kWh batteries then a different charging solution will be needed and perhaps we could go days without recharging or could take a few minutes to do it at an EV filling station set up.

The way technology is changing I am find with our $400 40 amp L2 solution it fully meets our needs. Some day that will not cut it but I can worry about that some day. :)

In business I have thrown away $100K's of technology that still worked fine but it was outdated due to technology advancements. One day my J1772 equipment is going to be worthless and I know it. The DC port in our Leafs are going way soon I read due to lack of support but that is not remotely a concern of mine today.

Level 4, 5, 6, etc are coming I am certain but today from fully discharged I can add 30 miles of range in 60 minutes with Level 2 at 26 amps output then run to town and back or just jump into one of 4 other vehicles with gas tanks that we try to keep full just in case.

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:45 am

sdwarwick wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:11 pm
Hi Folks - I'm working with a startup company that is looking at developing a true "level 3" DC charger for residential deployment. This would enable you to fully charge the car in 30 minutes from 90% discharge at home. The system would run off of standard home wiring, and would essentially "build up" a charge for fast-dump into the car, and then go through a slow build-up again.

The intent would be to bring fast charging to places where only L2 is typically available, and would potentially eliminate one of the key constraints around owning an EV.

Although the technology issues have been solved, there is still some controversy as to actual interest from the EV community. I was wondering if people in this group would have an opinion as to if this would be of "high value"

As a complete charging unit the price would be something like 25% of the cost of the EV itself.

I look forward to your thoughts.
Back to the original! What you are wanting to develop is close to production (hopefully). Certainly not for every home owner - unless you have a significant renewable system and you want to be mostly energy independent - as it contains significant energy storage. I'm not sure it will have the needed MPPT PV input and also be bi-directional? (IMO), your development at the $10,000 price point, might fit better in home and small businesses that have rather large PV systems and need storage. To me, PV input, bidirectional and tailored energy storage are critical elements needed (with CHAdeMO/CCS bidirectional protocols that are warranted by the manufacturer).


https://freewiretech.com/products/dc-boost-charger/
2012 Leaf SL; 43,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:53 pm

GaleHawkins wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:29 pm
I think Level 3 at home would be cool but since I sleep at least 5 hours nightly at home there really is nothing L3 can do for me that L2 is not doing now since from Empty to Full is 5 hours max in our case with current sizes of batteries. When EV's down the road have 200-300 kWh batteries then a different charging solution will be needed and perhaps we could go days without recharging or could take a few minutes to do it at an EV filling station set up.

The way technology is changing I am find with our $400 40 amp L2 solution it fully meets our needs. Some day that will not cut it but I can worry about that some day. :)

In business I have thrown away $100K's of technology that still worked fine but it was outdated due to technology advancements. One day my J1772 equipment is going to be worthless and I know it. The DC port in our Leafs are going way soon I read due to lack of support but that is not remotely a concern of mine today.

Level 4, 5, 6, etc are coming I am certain but today from fully discharged I can add 30 miles of range in 60 minutes with Level 2 at 26 amps output then run to town and back or just jump into one of 4 other vehicles with gas tanks that we try to keep full just in case.
The largest practical line you can run if a person already has a 200 amp service is 4 gauge which would be limited to 90 amps of 240v power for 21kw.
I have a 4 gauge fed circuit for my welder is highly unusual for residential.
I say the max power of a homes single phase to a charger that would be 125 amps, that way an oven, clothes dryer or central air conditioning can still run and that's 30kw. It would almost need to be located at the homes meter.

It looks like around half of EV owners just use 120v chargers. A lot of the EV owners who do install 240v evse units cry about the cost of the wiring and the unit.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

GaleHawkins
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Level 3 at home

Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:44 am

Yes going level 2 is not without a real cost upfront but level 1 is not best for battery health I read.

Our 40 Amp Mustart charger cable was $379. Electrical supplies was about $75 for parts and wire. I wanted to cut power at the 50 amp RV receptacle and that switch box was about $40 so that computer wasn't live 24/7 without unplugging it.

I went with the future charging needs in mind and on a 1x12 board to make it easy to move some day. 26 amps is Max a Leaf can draw.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Level 3 at home

Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:33 am

GaleHawkins wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:29 pm
When EV's down the road have 200-300 kWh batteries then a different charging solution will be needed
Are you planning to drive 1000 miles every day in the future ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GaleHawkins
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Level 3 at home

Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:20 am

Only 240 days of the year. :)

The 1000 range / 5 minutes recharge time may be a few years from now.

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