away2maine
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:25 am

Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:38 am

Hey there!

Just starting down the path of a first Leaf purchase. I began with a focus on 2016 SV/SL for the 30kWh battery and the longer warranty. Then I noticed a couple interesting pieces and wanted to check with the pros here.

I also stumbled across a 2014 with 12,500 miles and 12 bars showing on the cluster listed for $8,500. Seems reasonable that this might be a new battery, but is there any way to confirm this? I would presume that this is likely a 24kWh replacement, but, once again, is there a way to confirm this?

Then I'm trying to determine if I push towards the 2016 SV/SL option, These 3 pieces range from 43k-50k miles. In this group, I'm trying to determine whether it makes more sense to pursue 9 bars, which should drop to 8 within the 96/100 capacity warranty or 10 bars (which of course could be a day away from 9). FWIW, the 10 bar Leaf is the 43k miles piece.

This is the first of several questions likely to come...

Thanks...Peace...Away...

PrairieLEAF
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019
Location: Weld County, Colorado

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:43 am

Not a pro, but to get you started...

That 2014 may well have the original battery pack, but I'm not sure how to confirm it. It's my recollection that 24 kWh LEAFs can only receive 24 kWh pack replacements.

While I am very happy with this 30 kWh LEAF, I learned that their capacity bar readings can be misleading depending on whether or not they have had a recent Battery Management System update. If a 30 kWh LEAF is missing bars, it is likely a genuine reading, but one that shows all bars may have had a recent BMS update and not yet re-adjusted. I got lucky, and this one still shows 12 like it did at purchase. It sounds like Nissan is replacing 30 kWh packs with 40 kWh packs--just something to keep in mind. I don't want to rely on the replacement warranty, though. I presume they can refuse it, for reasons such as missing an annual battery checkup.

I was originally looking for a 2016 SV but am really happy with with 2016 S I ended up with. I like the narrower, less-expensive tires, the seat fabric, the matte-black shifter surround (the gloss-black on the SV/SL scratches and scuffs easily, and shows fingerprints) and the simpler climate and audio controls with lack of touch screen (also stays fingerprint-free).

Best wishes!
2016 LEAF S-30 w/QC "Lexie"

goldbrick
Posts: 871
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:50 am

Agreed the 2014 is probably the original battery. It might be close to losing its first bar but you can't tell without checking it with LeafSpy or equivalent.

About the 2016/2017 strategy - if the BMS firmware update hasn't been performed, Nissan will do that before they consider a warranty replacement so a 9 bar car could suddenly be a 10 or 11 or even 12 bar car. In this case, even the SOH as reported by LeafSpy will change after the update. My 2017 Leaf went from 92% SOH to 97% SOH after the firmware update (at 6 months old). It's now at 94% SOH (at 30 months). Without the update it might be down several bars by now and LeafSpy would also report the lower numbers. So if you're planning to get a 30kWh Leaf hoping for a warranty replacement be sure to check if the BMS update has been done, it can make a huge difference.

If you haven't read LeftieBikers 'Leaf buying guide' post do that first. It's posted here somewhere and is not hard to find.

away2maine
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:25 am

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:53 pm

Yup...Read LeftieBikers' post right before pushing mine out.

One of the thought exercises I need to work through is balancing the lower mileage and higher SOH of the 2014 at $8,500 to the greater range, higher mileage and potential battery replacement/refresh on the 2016s falling in around $13,500. Any general thoughts on this from folks? I reside in Indy and my daily commute to and from the office is only around 30 miles.

I think a big challenge on the 2016s will be how to realistically determine whether they have had the BMS update since they are not local vehicles. The 2014 is located several states away and the 2016s are listed by Carvana. The 2014's location itself comes as a challenge (unless a reasonable delivery can be negotiated). I certainly have the capacity to use my Bluetooth OBDII transmitter and the LeafSpy app when a Carvana piece shows up at the door, but then I will have to explain what I'm doing and why I may not take the vehicle upon delivery. Any insight folks might have here would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance...Peace...Away...

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15077
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:22 pm

Nissan should be able to tell you, given the VIN, if a Leaf has had the BMS update. This is, as noted, crucial info with a 30kwh pack.

Given your 30 mile needs, the 2014 would work fine, as long as there was no BMS reset to spoof the capacity display. The only issue there is that it has little or likely no battery warranty (or other warranty) left. You need to determine if you want to spend more money for more range and a warranty. If you can find a 30kwh leaf with 12 bars that has NOT had the BMS update, that will give you almost 3X the range you need. I know, I sound like a broken record on that point...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

away2maine
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:25 am

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:38 pm

Definitely leaning towards a 2016 or 17 SL or SV. I agree that the greater range makes a lot more sense. Also if I could find one either with a lot of bars or sitting at 9 or 10 with several years left to get to a potential warranty replacement if or when needed that would be good as well. I have found a couple of them online that are quite literally only showing two or three bars with 25 to 40 thousand miles. That just seems odd and off to me. I cannot fathom why these are even listed for sale.

The real challenge is being located in the Midwest and trying to find an electric vehicle. If anyone has solid recommendations on where or how to look it would be greatly appreciated. I have spent a good deal of time on CarGurus as well as Cars websites. Since most of them are located elsewhere, places like Carvana or CarMax seem to have some appeal because of the delivery option to Indy. However CarMax delivery from the West Coast bumps the price $1,800 and that simply isn't an option 😬

Thanks for all the insight so far!

dcdisc
Forum Supporter
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 6:21 am
Delivery Date: 16 May 2018
Location: alexandria,va 22310

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:39 pm

Hi,Indy, I would check in with Hoosier EVA on Facebook and post a WTB ad.The next meeting is in April. Location is the Irvington Library.A Blue/white 16 SV W/QC no bose 24,300 miles for 12,800 .Dealer is STL Carz in ST.Charles MO. Yes it is 250 miles away.Your choices are limited in your area.If you pm me, I am able to help you look.I was lucky and found one here with a newer pack. I would have linked the ad but my tech skills are nil.thks Bob. How soon do you need the car? also check FB marketplace.Maybe a WTB on your local CL.

dcdisc
Forum Supporter
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 6:21 am
Delivery Date: 16 May 2018
Location: alexandria,va 22310

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:48 pm

The 2014 with 12/12 for 8400 deserves closer inspection and test drive if local.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15077
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:29 pm

I have found a couple of them online that are quite literally only showing two or three bars with 25 to 40 thousand miles. That just seems odd and off to me. I cannot fathom why these are even listed for sale.
Are you sure that you aren't looking at the larger Charge bars? The capacity bars are the tiny ones at the ends of the charge bars. They show regardless of the state of charge.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

away2maine
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:25 am

Re: Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:45 am

I am absolutely sure that the bars that were shown in the images were the capacity bars. Seems crazy to me to even try to sell something like that, but does make you wonder about

Thanks for the additional shopping insight. I'll definitely look into those other options. The challenge isn't necessarily finding them, they are all over Carvana. The bigger issue is the possibility of finding something within 100 or so miles of me.

Thanks again!

Peace...Away...

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