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jlv
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:30 am

If your price point includes "under $45K" like the subject says (and you can really afford it), then I'd vote for the 3.
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SageBrush
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:34 am

jlv wrote:If your price point includes "under $45K" like the subject says (and you can really afford it), then I'd vote for the 3.
Exactly. Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face comes to mind.
OP is unhappy that Tesla is not selling a $35k Model 3, so he chooses an inferior car up to $45k

:roll:
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:07 am

barsad22 wrote:If you had to purchase a new BEV right now, which one would it be:
Nissan's Leaf Plus
Kia's Niro EV
Hyundai's Kona EV
Tesla 3
Other
I'm in Washington State, so my options are simpler.

Chevy Bolt
Nissan Leaf Plus
Tesla 3
(Any missing?)

I'm unlikely to have a real chance to buy a Kia Niro or a Hyundai Kona. Maybe I might be able to order one at MSRP plus in a few years. Or take Amtrak to Portland OR and buy one there at a rather better price.


I can't stand the seats in the Bolt, so is probably out.
Tesla 3 is rather more expensive.

So I'd probably buy the LEAF plus. Chademo is a minus, passive cooling is a plus. Front Seats need to be as good as the 2014 LEAF. Wheelchair for usual passenger needs to fit. Heated steering wheel is a big plus.
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:34 am

I don't like throw-away cars I cannot depend on meeting my needs in a few short years so the LEAF is out.
Kona production is a tease.
Maybe a Bolt if did not hate GM, the Bolt interior, and the Bolt exterior

Model 3 hands down, and I get to support an outstanding company.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
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11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:34 am

cwerdna wrote:Also, to add another poll choice (not that I care), is the https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/vehic ... 20-soul-ev. There, they claim "Soul EV hits dealerships in mid-late March 2019, in select markets in limited quantities." I wonder if it'll be So Cal only virtual vaporware like the Ioniq EV was for over a year or two.

I've seem claims this Soul EV will be EPA rated at 243 miles.

If you hadn't seen my other posts in other threads here, I bought a new '19 Bolt about a month ago. 3 was ruled out. HyunKia cars I wasn't going to wait around for given their Ioniq EV availability track record.

Leaf Plus was a possibility, but was uncertain about availability before April 1st and doubted there'd be any heavy discounting in time. Also, lack of battery TMS was a concern and AESC's degradation track record. It is too bad. If it had active TMS and there were a better degradation track record AND price were the same as (heavily discounted) Bolt or very close, I'd have probably chosen Leaf Plus.
Soul distribution MUCH better than Kona which we will see very little of outside California.
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mtndrew1
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:41 am

Love my Model 3 and I’d vote for that car at the $45k price point.

See if they have any 2018 inventory cars lying around and you may be able to get a deal.
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:30 pm

barsad22 wrote:I have been on the waitlist for a $35K Tesla 3 for nearly 3 years... I don't think it's coming at that price
And today it came. :lol:
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
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barsad22
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:57 pm

I know, today was the day!
Once I got to the design-your-car page and added all the "Standard Plus" extras ($2,000 more for 20 miles of range, $1,500 for paint, $3K for Autopilot, then add taxes and fees) it barely makes the $45K mark. Now I am in quandary... the other cars on the list all offer $3,750 more in credit, and probably will not do as much nickel-and-diming as Tesla is doing. Is it worth the premium?
Apologies to the Bolt crowd for leaving it off the poll... I know it is popular, but I've heard some negative things about the seats and driving power.
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cwerdna
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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:03 am

barsad22 wrote: probably will not do as much nickel-and-diming as Tesla is doing. Is it worth the premium?
...
Apologies to the Bolt crowd for leaving it off the poll... I know it is popular, but I've heard some negative things about the seats and driving power.
For the first part, it really depends. Tesla's Supercharger network is unmatched in the US. For long distance travel, there really is no viable alternative. CHAdeMO and SAE Combo network deployments are haphazard and many don't have multiple stalls besides lower charging rates. There are so many other things to write about (pro and con), some of which I probably already have.

I wrote about some reason why I ruled out the 3 at the time I was in the market at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 59#p547159.

I've spoken w/two different people with 3's, one of which told me first the automatic wipers are garbage. I think he used the words almost dangerous. I talked to another guy today w/a 3 and he confirmed the same thing. It really is too bad that Tesla made the choices they did. If they'd only put on a traditional wiper stalk on like Japanese cars w/a wheel for intermittent on the stalk.

I also do NOT like the fact they crammed everything onto the touchscreen, there's no speedo in front of you nor an optional HUD. Model 3 still has no Android Auto nor CarPlay and may never. CarPlay is very cool now that I've used it for awhile.

As for Bolt, I was confused since it met the criteria but wasn't sure why it was missing. Yes, the front seats are terrible on the '17, esp. if you're a wide person and still not good to me even though I'm not wide (rented one for a day, there were no '18 nor '19 to rent). They improved the seats on '18+ but they're still not great. For me: too hard and shaped funny (both cushions). Gen 1 Leaf's seats are more comfortable, for sure. I'm on-off exploring ways to rectify (e.g. cushions, covers, etc.)

Driving power? Not sure what you're talking about there. In acceleration, it blows the doors off gen 1 Leaf (in 0 to 60 mph and 1/4 mile) and is faster than 40 kWh Leaf. It's FWD like Leaf though, so you have the issue of weight transfer off the driving wheels when you floor it. When accelerating, car will squat which means more weight and downforce to the rear wheels and less to the front. This is great (!) for RWD cars and bad for FWD. (I know since in the past I'd taken my 255 hp FWD Nissan Maxima and 287 hp RWD 350Z to the track to drag race in the past.)

To bench race using Consumer Reports figures (yes, they're a bit slower than many other publications but this is to get apples comparisons via same test procedure and track):
Bolt: 0 to 60 mph: 6.8 seconds; 45 to 65 mph: 3.5 sec; 1/4 mile: 15.3 sec @ 93 mph <-- similar to V6 powered cars. IIRC, the best I managed on my Maxima was in the mid to low 15's on the 1/4. It's been a long time.
2011 Leaf: 10.3 sec; 6.2 sec; 17.8 sec @ 77 mph <-- 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times are not unlike automatic transmission wimpy econoboxes
2018 Leaf: 8.0 sec; 4.5 sec; 16.3 @ 87 mph

We won't have 62 kWh Leaf CR figures for awhile. I expect 62 kWh Leaf to have comparable times to Bolt, maybe slightly slower. Go test drive a Bolt, even w/o using sport mode.
Last edited by cwerdna on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: POLL: Battle of the 200-Miles-Plus, under $45K Cars

Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:10 am

Yes, the front seats are terrible on the '17, esp. if you're a wide person and still not good to me even though I'm not wide (rented one for a day, there were no '18 nor '19 to rent). They improved the seats on '18+ but they're still not great.
Are you sure that they changed the seats, or did they perhaps just improve the quality control? I remember when I frequented the Bolt forum, there was a great deal of disappointment when the '18 Bolts first hit the lots, and the seats seemed to be of the same 'hit or miss' quality. Maybe they just stopped putting the wrong length bolt in the driver's seat, at thigh level...
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