DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2217
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:24 pm

It is still early days, but there are signs that the 62 pack degradation is significantly better than the 40.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

jlsoaz
Posts: 819
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:11 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:24 pm
It is still early days, but there are signs that the 62 pack degradation is significantly better than the 40.
Hi -

Thanks for the point. Does that include in the really hot climates? My impression has been that there are some restrictions on rapid charging frequency and that this might point to lingering issues with thermal management and degradation in general (aside from being a pain for long trips) but I haven't had a chance to follow things recently.
2015 Model S 70 Oct 2020 -
2013 Volt - Oct 2017- Oct 2020
2012 SL Lease Oct 2012-Dec 2015
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/ba ... hp?vid=229
opinions expressed are my own

Stoaty
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:35 am

The last half dozen posts have nothing to do with Tesla Model S. Please stop off topic posts. Thanks.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

cwerdna
Posts: 11352
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:24 pm

Stoaty wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:35 am
The last half dozen posts have nothing to do with Tesla Model S. Please stop off topic posts. Thanks.
+1

TIL I learned that (new) Model S and X no longer come with the 8 year/"infinite miles" battery pack and DU warranty.

Compare https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty vs. https://web.archive.org/web/20191015142 ... e-warranty. Current warranty now reads:
Your vehicle is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

Model S and Model X – 8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 150,000 miles , whichever comes first).
On the + side, they added a capacity guarantee for S and X. There wasn't one before.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 11352
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:25 pm

Responding here instead of adding more OT content in the 30 kWh Leaf capacity loss thread...
cwerdna wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:33 pm
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:59 pm
Tesla S models seem to be able to go 150,000 miles with 10% degradation on average. The key here is a larger battery and proper temperature management.
...
if we go by the Model S data then 450,000 miles on the battery is conceivable. That's 37 years of driving. Subtract 25% for the Model 3 Standard+.
This presumes the packs even last that long. I suspect the odds of any Tesla making it to 450K miles on the original pack are low.

In this old survey (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1279598), the data at https://survey.pluginamerica.org/model-s/charts.php, 15.6% of '12 Model S drivers had their packs swapped at least once, for whatever reason.

Edmunds's Model S had to have a pack and drive unit replacement at shy of 19K miles: https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2 ... charm.html after https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2 ... eeway.html happened. Edmunds in the end had their drive unit replaced 3 times (1st for noise, 2nd one for failure and 3rd for noise again).

Many folks on TMC have gotten their Model S packs replaced for whatever reason.

This guy needed a new pack at 141K miles: https://insideevs.com/news/339193/3-way ... eplace-it/. From https://insideevs.com/news/340739/check ... w-battery/, apparently, Tesla was willing to replace it for free even though he was out of warranty (he had a 60 kWh S).

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/ ... kilometers said "The Model S has had its high voltage battery replaced twice under warranty at 194,000 and 324,000 miles."

Here are a couple folks who needs replacement packs already in their 3 that I had in my bookmarks:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... nt.116109/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2783682
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-3092827
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2937676
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-3598386
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... 483/page-2
And, to add another Model S data point, https://insideevs.com/news/385016/tesla ... illion-km/ hit 1 million km or about 621K miles.
The car is currently using its 4th electric motor. The current one is holding well after 680,000 km. It is also the only one the car has since we are talking about an RWD unit. Anyway, it had to go to the shop three times to have so many km crossed, but not only that. It is also in its 3rd battery pack.

Von Gemmingen says his former batteries started to have problems when the car had 290,000 km. Tesla needed half a year to replace it, so he got a loaner battery for this period and did more 150,000 km with it. That was when he got the final battery pack installed, currently with 470,000 km. He counts only two of them, but we think the loaner battery also deserves some recognition.
Also, per https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty, Tesla S and X bought as new once the new warranty went into effect no longer have 8 year/unlimited mileage warranties on their DUs and battery packs. It's now 8 years/150K miles, whichever comes first.

Per https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/9/24/ ... ity-launch, Tesloop suspended their shuttle as of Oct 1, 2018.

And, (IIRC) Model 3's never had such an 8 year/unlimited mileage warranty on their DU and battery packs and still don't.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

johnlocke
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:00 am

cwerdna wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:25 pm
Responding here instead of adding more OT content in the 30 kWh Leaf capacity loss thread...
cwerdna wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:33 pm
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:59 pm
Tesla S models seem to be able to go 150,000 miles with 10% degradation on average. The key here is a larger battery and proper temperature management.
...
if we go by the Model S data then 450,000 miles on the battery is conceivable. That's 37 years of driving. Subtract 25% for the Model 3 Standard+.
This presumes the packs even last that long. I suspect the odds of any Tesla making it to 450K miles on the original pack are low.

In this old survey (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1279598), the data at https://survey.pluginamerica.org/model-s/charts.php, 15.6% of '12 Model S drivers had their packs swapped at least once, for whatever reason.

Edmunds's Model S had to have a pack and drive unit replacement at shy of 19K miles: https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2 ... charm.html after https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2 ... eeway.html happened. Edmunds in the end had their drive unit replaced 3 times (1st for noise, 2nd one for failure and 3rd for noise again).

Many folks on TMC have gotten their Model S packs replaced for whatever reason.

This guy needed a new pack at 141K miles: https://insideevs.com/news/339193/3-way ... eplace-it/. From https://insideevs.com/news/340739/check ... w-battery/, apparently, Tesla was willing to replace it for free even though he was out of warranty (he had a 60 kWh S).

https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/ ... kilometers said "The Model S has had its high voltage battery replaced twice under warranty at 194,000 and 324,000 miles."

Here are a couple folks who needs replacement packs already in their 3 that I had in my bookmarks:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... nt.116109/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2783682
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-3092827
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2937676
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-3598386
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... 483/page-2
And, to add another Model S data point, https://insideevs.com/news/385016/tesla ... illion-km/ hit 1 million km or about 621K miles.
The car is currently using its 4th electric motor. The current one is holding well after 680,000 km. It is also the only one the car has since we are talking about an RWD unit. Anyway, it had to go to the shop three times to have so many km crossed, but not only that. It is also in its 3rd battery pack.

Von Gemmingen says his former batteries started to have problems when the car had 290,000 km. Tesla needed half a year to replace it, so he got a loaner battery for this period and did more 150,000 km with it. That was when he got the final battery pack installed, currently with 470,000 km. He counts only two of them, but we think the loaner battery also deserves some recognition.
Also, per https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty, Tesla S and X bought as new once the new warranty went into effect no longer have 8 year/unlimited mileage warranties on their DUs and battery packs. It's now 8 years/150K miles, whichever comes first.

Per https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/9/24/ ... ity-launch, Tesloop suspended their shuttle as of Oct 1, 2018.

And, (IIRC) Model 3's never had such an 8 year/unlimited mileage warranty on their DU and battery packs and still don't.
Arguing over how long a Tesla might last is bit like asking how many angels fit on the head of a pin. There are already Teslas with very high mileage and some with multiple replacement parts. It's also reasonable to assume that there have been and continue to be product improvements over the last few years. It does appear that Teslas on the whole are more durable and less likely to have mechanical problems than most other cars. No, they won't last forever although if they retain value well enough, they may be more likely to be repaired rather than scrapped.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

WetEV
Posts: 4069
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:13 pm

johnlocke wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:00 am
It does appear that Teslas on the whole are more durable and less likely to have mechanical problems than most other cars.
Tesla Model X

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... able-cars/
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

WetEV
Posts: 4069
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:35 pm

johnlocke wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:00 am
It does appear that Teslas on the whole are more durable and less likely to have mechanical problems than most other cars.
Tesla Model S

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/te ... /?pagestop

One above average year, three average years, and three below average years.

Tesla Model 3

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/te ... /?pagestop

One above average year, one average year.

Nissan Leaf

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ni ... /?pagestop

Five better reliability years, one average and one worse (2018).

Looks to me like the Leaf (on the average) is more reliable than the Teslas. Tesla has yet to get a single year of "better", the Leaf has five to date.

(you probably need a consumer reports subscription to view details.)
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

cwerdna
Posts: 11352
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:10 pm

WetEV wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:13 pm
johnlocke wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:00 am
It does appear that Teslas on the whole are more durable and less likely to have mechanical problems than most other cars.
Tesla Model X

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... able-cars/
Yep. Every single year that CR has reliability data on the X, it is in the bottom 10 for reliability.

See links at viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18016&p=541134#p541134 and https://web.archive.org/web/20181229020 ... able-cars/ for older reports. The former URL was part of my response to john at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=569085#p569085.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:59 am

Oh my gosh! What skewed information from people who don't even own Tesla and Leaf as comparisons. Tesla is a far superior car to Nissan leaf. Give up already... :lol:
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”