Why do you want QC charging for the Leaf?

[brettcgb]

.... QC's are a much better use of public resources than populating shopping malls, Fred Meyers and Wallgreens with L2's that hardly get used.

I've often thought that sprinkling L2's all over was rather silly. You can't get much of a charge in less than an hour, but I'm not seeing them appear where the general population would go frequently, and stay for more than an hour. Places like movie theaters, shopping shopping malls, and street parking come to mind.

I am seeing them around local colleges, university campuses and Ikea.

 

[WetEV]

Leaf owners can't expect the government to spend 50K every few miles

I'm hoping that charging stations get busy enough that we will need to pay for them, and that will be enough to make installing more a paying proposition.

I'm happy that the government spent billions starting and supporting the Internet over the first two decades of its existence. Are you?

 

[SolPower]

Why did I pay for the QC port for the Leaf? Nissan gave us a choice.

I voted with my bucks when ordering a Leaf SL in August 2010 with the QC port. Living in the Los angeles area and since 2005 driving a 50 mi. range electric car in one of the smoggiest urban areas in the county. I choose the 100 mi. range Leaf partially because of the QC capability. It suites me well to be able to drive from LA to Santa Barbara, San Diego or the local mountains during day trips with a few strategically placed Quick Chargers.

I have made the mountain trip thanks to a QC at a 7-11 store in San Bernardino. I am like many other Southern California Leaf QC

users willing to pay for it.

It is no dog fight for me, just my purchasing choice that only Nissan offered in early 2010 when I committed to be on the waiting list for the opportunity to be early adopter.

Thanks for asking our opinion.

 

[DANandNAN]

I've often thought that sprinkling L2's all over was rather silly. You can't get much of a charge in less than an hour, but I'm not seeing them appear where the general population would go frequently, and stay for more than an hour. Places like movie theaters, shopping shopping malls, and street parking come to mind.

I am seeing them around local colleges, university campuses and Ikea.

Why is it silly? L2 is MUCH less expensive. You state that you're seeing them around local colleges, university campuses and Ikea. Those sounds like a great start, customers will be there long enough to get a charge (10MPHC with the 2012 3.3 and 20+MPHC on the 2013 6.6) yet they don't have to spend an enormous amount of money on L3. L2 attracts business without a huge overhead - sounds like a win-win.

 

[WetEV]

L2 is MUCH less expensive.

I've found L2 quite useful, especially with a 6.6kW charger.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

but for it to be useful, it has to be everywhere we go, that's tens of thousands, and even then, the rate is just too slow even at 6.6 to be useful when substantial range extension is needed. We will all have L2 at home, that's where it makes the most sense. L2 out in the wild is not viable economically, it's too expensive and too slow.

I've often thought that sprinkling L2's all over was rather silly. You can't get much of a charge in less than an hour, but I'm not seeing them appear where the general population would go frequently, and stay for more than an hour. Places like movie theaters, shopping shopping malls, and street parking come to mind.

I am seeing them around local colleges, university campuses and Ikea.

Why is it silly? L2 is MUCH less expensive. You state that you're seeing them around local colleges, university campuses and Ikea. Those sounds like a great start, customers will be there long enough to get a charge (10MPHC with the 2012 3.3 and 20+MPHC on the 2013 6.6) yet they don't have to spend an enormous amount of money on L3. L2 attracts business without a huge overhead - sounds like a win-win.

 

[smkettner]

I like L2. It will take time for it to spread. I am not sure there is value in charging for L2 due to all the network gizmos that need be attached to collect a few pennies. Better value to attract business to just put a dumb evse up on a 20 amp feed such as Levition 160. JMHO.

 

[GRA]

but for it to be useful, it has to be everywhere we go, that's tens of thousands, and even then, the rate is just too slow even at 6.6 to be useful when substantial range extension is needed. We will all have L2 at home, that's where it makes the most sense. L2 out in the wild is not viable economically, it's too expensive and too slow.

George, I assume what you meant is that L2 is too slow en route, not 'in the wild'. L2 at all-day or overnight tourist destinations is great. And we'll need public ones for city apartment dwellers.

 

[TRONZ]

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

 

[GRA]

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

Unlimited in theory, but as a practical matter very few people will be willing to make more than one en route L3 each way for a trip - more just extends the trip time too much. I could theoretically get from where I live in the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe or Yosemite using QCs, but it would take me three QCs en route, adding at least 1.5 hours to what's normally about a 3 hour trip. If I wanted to do that as an adventure that's one thing, but if I just want to get to my destination so I can do something there I'm not going to be willing to do that. And I'm certainly not going to be willing to do that on a frequent basis.

However, there are a fair number of day and weekend destinations around the Bay Area that would only require 1 QC, or 1 QC each way with/without L2 at destination to get to, thus making it possible to use a BEV for a much greater fraction of people's miles. Until affordable BEV range increases they will continue to use an ICE/HEV/PHEV for the long distance trips.

 

[walterbays]

as a practical matter very few people will be willing to make more than one en route L3 each way for a trip - more just extends the trip time too much. I could theoretically get from where I live in the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe or Yosemite using QCs, but it would take me three QCs en route, adding at least 1.5 hours to what's normally about a 3 hour trip. If I wanted to do that as an adventure that's one thing, but if I just want to get to my destination so I can do something there I'm not going to be willing to do that.

You could theoretically get from the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe using a car, but it would take you 3 hours for what is normally an under 1 hour trip by air taxi. Who would be willing to do that? It's always a trade off among cost, time, convenience, and comfort.

However, there are a fair number of day and weekend destinations around the Bay Area that would only require 1 QC, or 1 QC each way with/without L2 at destination to get to, thus making it possible to use a BEV for a much greater fraction of people's miles. Until affordable BEV range increases they will continue to use an ICE/HEV/PHEV for the long distance trips.

I agree that QC would open up many new destinations with a single charge, and those trips will account for most usage. I'd be willing to wait and pay for 2 QC's, or maybe 3. Some would accept more than that.

Apart from trips, for daily driving QC will be the safety net. Right now I sometimes charge to 100% when I'll probably need less than 80% - just in case. And I'll sometimes top off at public L2 - just in case. But if QC were available in case of need, then I wouldn't need to charge more nor top off.

 

[planet4ever]

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

A hard 45 mph speed limit that can't be broken no matter how fast you try to go?

Notes:

• Perhaps it should be less than 70%, but I am using Phil's report that "80%" is really out of total capacity, and more like 85% of available.
• Going below LBW won't help; it will just increase the charging time.
• If you go beyond 80% the charging slows dramatically, and the numbers get worse.
• 25 minutes charge time is very optimistic, since you need to include the time to get off the freeway and get to the charging station.
• 25 minutes becomes even more unrealistic when you realize you might have to wait for someone else to finish charging.
• I haven't allowed for the fact that multiple charges are likely to overheat the battery, forcing even longer waits.

Ray

 

[garsh]

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

A hard 45 mph speed limit that can't be broken no matter how fast you try to go?

Thanks for putting together that chart, planet4ever. That will be useful for people planning such trips.

 

[Cheezmo]

DC makes way more sense on the highways, provided it was faster and the batteries have better range. DC inside a city? With a range of 80-100 city miles does a Leaf/FFE need it and need so many of them when L2 could be everywhere for 40K less/station?

Yes. For example the 3 88 mile round trip trips I made last weekend taking my son to tennis matches. No DC, no EV for that trip.

 

[Pipcecil]

Ditto from Cheezmo, going to my sisters this weekend in Allen, 110 miles round trip from my home in Midlothian - same metro area. Impossible without a DC charger (we are only staying for 2-3 hours for a wedding shower she is hosting - Level 1 won't give us back anything).

 

[peter]

I live in the Bay Area and was patiently awaiting the QC stations when lo - two appear 4 miles equidistant distant from my house to the North and South. Bummer.

This was initially disappointing as I was expecting to use the QC primarily to extend long range trips. But we have been using these close ones far more often than I expected for days where there is a lot of driving and then a long trip required at the end of the day - say to go up to the city for the evening.

We can pop by the QC and quickly refuel before the big trip - really convenient. Also if we want a bit of padding in the middle of the day, we can pop by for 10 or 15 mins for a little extra.

So, yes, QC is a good thing.

Only problem was my wife trying for 1/2 hour to plug the car in with that #$&!#@ connector - she even called Blink customer service to no avail. Finally in desperation she called me and I told her not to squeeze the lever when plugging in...

 

[TonyWilliams]

The Volt, the Leaf and the FFE, none is ideal, but folks knew that going in. Leaf owners can't expect the government to spend 50K every few miles for 13K cars when 8 major manufacturers have said they won't use that standard.

These so called quick charges are not quick. If it takes 50 minutes, and doubles your commute times then it shouldn't be called quick, fast or convenient.

Sounds like the Frankenplug won't work for you either. Bummer. What will you talk about now?

 

[DANandNAN]

but for it to be useful, it has to be everywhere we go, that's tens of thousands, and even then, the rate is just too slow even at 6.6 to be useful when substantial range extension is needed. We will all have L2 at home, that's where it makes the most sense. L2 out in the wild is not viable economically, it's too expensive and too slow.

Why do they have to be everywhere? Because the Leaf/FFE only have 65 miles of range? But, most folks drive less than that on a daily/weekly basis. So why does it have to be everywhere? It's more of a perk, or an incentive to shop at a store, to go to a theater, to be green while you're at school. It's not going to remove range limits from a RLBEV - and neither will a L3. Better batteries will. Until then you just have to deal with it.

Nothing is "fast" they're all too slow. But, L2 costs dramatically less than L3. I have no idea why you'd think L2 is too expensive, but if you do, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

 

[DANandNAN]

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

Unlimited in theory, but as a practical matter very few people will be willing to make more than one en route L3 each way for a trip - more just extends the trip time too much. I could theoretically get from where I live in the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe or Yosemite using QCs, but it would take me three QCs en route, adding at least 1.5 hours to what's normally about a 3 hour trip. If I wanted to do that as an adventure that's one thing, but if I just want to get to my destination so I can do something there I'm not going to be willing to do that. And I'm certainly not going to be willing to do that on a frequent basis.

However, there are a fair number of day and weekend destinations around the Bay Area that would only require 1 QC, or 1 QC each way with/without L2 at destination to get to, thus making it possible to use a BEV for a much greater fraction of people's miles. Until affordable BEV range increases they will continue to use an ICE/HEV/PHEV for the long distance trips.

That's the problem, as Ray's chart shows, it's not fast, and L3 absolutely doubles your transit time. If a person is willing to do that, and a business is willing to buy, setup and maintain it then fine, but convincing the general public that it's a good solution isn't possible.

 

[DANandNAN]

Apart from trips, for daily driving QC will be the safety net. Right now I sometimes charge to 100% when I'll probably need less than 80% - just in case. And I'll sometimes top off at public L2 - just in case. But if QC were available in case of need, then I wouldn't need to charge more nor top off.

And how many folks have bought now that there's 1,300 L3 safety nets out there?