What would you do if you were in my shoes? Possible new leaf

[garsh]

Hello cstambaugh, and welcome.

My own decision to buy a Leaf was also mainly based on economics. I drive 60 miles/day for my commute. My company offers free L2 charging at work. My previous car wasn't going to pass inspection again without some major work (1999 with 170k miles) so I needed to get a new car anyhow. I did a little price comparison a while back to justify the purchase to myself:

Honda Fit Sport w. Auto, MSRP: $17,910
Leaf SV, MSRP - federal tax credit - PA state rebate: $35,200 - $7500 - $3500 = $24,200
Difference in cost: $6,290.

Fit, cost per mile: ($3.50/gallon)/(30mpg) = $0.1167 -> 12¢ per mile.
Leaf, cost per mile: 0¢ per mile.
Mileage to break even: $6290 / ($0.12/mile) ~= 53,000 miles.

For commuting alone, I put on 15,000 miles/yr, so that's less than 4 years for me to break even.

 

[ksnogas2112]

The real question is will your wife give you the Leaf back after the first time you need to swap cars? :mrgreen:

Unless there's a driving (pun intended) reason to buy like you actually need the tax credit, then I would recommend leasing. The technology is changing pretty rapidly. I'm probably going to lease the next one instead of buying and start treating an EV just like a cell phone. New one at the end of every contract. I know that's what Gateway intended back in the late 90's was for people to have a perpetual pc payment to keep up on the changing tech. It didn't work for them but it certainly works for cell phones.

Winter range can be a real issue. I was getting as low as 3.2 miles/kWh during the coldest winter when I had to run the defrost to keep the windows clear. Right now even with the cold snaps it looks like I'll get 5.2 miles/kWh doing the same driving but with warmer temps and warmer battery.

Leaf would definitely be a good fit for you I think.

 

[cstambaugh]

Hello cstambaugh, and welcome.

My own decision to buy a Leaf was also mainly based on economics. I drive 60 miles/day for my commute. My company offers free L2 charging at work. My previous car wasn't going to pass inspection again without some major work (1999 with 170k miles) so I needed to get a new car anyhow. I did a little price comparison a while back to justify the purchase to myself:

Honda Fit Sport w. Auto, MSRP: $17,910
Leaf SV, MSRP - federal tax credit - PA state rebate: $35,200 - $7500 - $3500 = $24,200
Difference in cost: $6,290.

Fit, cost per mile: ($3.50/gallon)/(30mpg) = $0.1167 -> 12¢ per mile.
Leaf, cost per mile: 0¢ per mile.
Mileage to break even: $6290 / ($0.12/mile) ~= 53,000 miles.

For commuting alone, I put on 15,000 miles/yr, so that's less than 4 years for me to break even.

Do you see yourself keeping the car for 4+ years? A 4 year ROI for a car is a long time, but again, you were comparing it to a car that already has a lower cost to run. Was there anything about your decision on the leaf that you wish you would have done differently?

The real question is will your wife give you the Leaf back after the first time you need to swap cars? :mrgreen:

Unless there's a driving (pun intended) reason to buy like you actually need the tax credit, then I would recommend leasing. The technology is changing pretty rapidly. I'm probably going to lease the next one instead of buying and start treating an EV just like a cell phone. New one at the end of every contract. I know that's what Gateway intended back in the late 90's was for people to have a perpetual pc payment to keep up on the changing tech. It didn't work for them but it certainly works for cell phones.

Winter range can be a real issue. I was getting as low as 3.2 miles/kWh during the coldest winter when I had to run the defrost to keep the windows clear. Right now even with the cold snaps it looks like I'll get 5.2 miles/kWh doing the same driving but with warmer temps and warmer battery.

Leaf would definitely be a good fit for you I think.

That is more of my line of thinking. Leasing is the way to go with an EV because they are so new and beta in the real world. The technology changes too quickly to justify the depreciation and degradation that an EV would go though this early in the game. We're already seeing EVs claiming 100+ mile range in the 30-40k spectrum about to flood the market by this time next year.

I'm also trying to talk my wife into getting her a leaf as well 2 leafs with an ICE sitting on the side for long trips... Ideal.

 

[garsh]

Do you see yourself keeping the car for 4+ years?

I kept my previous car for 13 years, so yes.

I considered leasing, but I wanted to be able to make a few modifications to the car, so ownership seemed to be the better choice for me.

Although I had the above financial justification for purchasing it, I just really wanted an electric car. I studied electrical engineering back in college, and worked on diesel-electric locomotives during that time. I'd really like to see the technology take off. Unlike most people here, "saving the environment" is way down towards the bottom of my reasons for getting the Leaf.

Was there anything about your decision on the leaf that you wish you would have done differently?

Not really.
If I thought my previous car would last two more years without investing a lot of money into it, I would have preferred to get a Model S. But I would have reserved the 40kWh version (the cheapest one), and so I would probably still be waiting for delivery if I had gone that route.

 

[TimLee]

The LEAF may work for you if you want it to.
But it is really a personal choice of what you and your wife want in a vehicle.
You are currently driving two luxury ICE vehicles.
Although the 2013 LEAF SL with all the options is improved a lot over the 2011 / 2012, it is still NOT a luxury vehicle.
Whether you want to accept change from a luxury ICE vehicle to a not quite luxury LEAF is a personal choice.
I have driven a 2011 LEAF for 23 months, and it does lack a few things my 2009 Altima with all the options has, such as leather seats and Bose stereo, which I do miss.
The 2013 LEAF SL fixes those things, it is better, but I don't like black leather which is the only way it comes.
But the 2013 LEAF SL is not a large very comfortable luxury vehicle.
I personally have made the choice that I will not take a huge $ loss to trade in my 2011 LEAF SL on a 2013 LEAF SL with all the options. At some point Nissan / Infiniti will make an EV that is luxury, and I will trade it in then.
You will have to decide if you want to make the change from a luxury ICE vehicle to a not quite luxury LEAF. What you will get is the luxury of an electric vehicle that no ICE competes very well with. Really quiet, and lots of instant high torque to 30 mph. I personally like that luxury more than the parts of luxury that are missing.
On the vehicle range working for your local driving, that is very dependent on how you drive. Taking into account cold weather, the LEAF is more of a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle.
It all depends on where and how you drive.
If you are used to driving luxury vehicles in a non-conservative manner on highways at high speed and racing to brake at red lights, then the LEAF will not work well for you on a 60 mile day.
If you drive conservatively, it may work for you.
But keep in mind that range will always be something you have to think about on a day that gets near 60 miles.
Are you willing to take that on?
Only you can decide.

 

[cstambaugh]

Good reply TimLee, you bring it down to earth.
Also, a luxury EV that is on its way out early next year is the Infiniti LE. I've also been thinking about waiting for the LE, but its the same range as a leaf, just more expensive (but more luxury).
Range to price is my biggest battle right now, which is why I keep coming back to the Leaf.

 

[GotMyleaf]

Get the SL LEAF. I'm also an IT Consultant in So. Cal and just hit 42,000 miles in my leased 2011. I have a cluster of customers 50-60 miles away and relied on one DCQC and 3.3kwh until recently and it's working better now that there are many more DCQC thanks to Nissan & Blink. There are three pretty well placed DCQC in Indiana right now, that are not Blink (unreliable) so I think that you can make it work.

Get the EVSE upgrade and scope the charge spots of your most long range spots. Nissan dealers have been good about shuttle rides too, so if a nearby dealership has a Level 2, you can charge and get dropped off/picked up.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The leases on a LEAF are really too good not to make work for your situation. Since you're considering two cars, get a LEAF-SV or SL now (do NOT get a 2011-2012, or a 2013 LEAF-S) on a 24 month lease. Learn about how it works on your winter drives. Then, when the Infinit LE comes out, you'll be able to possibly add that car, or consider something else like the Toyota Rav4 EV (Tesla powered, shipped from California only) or stretch for a Tesla Model S.

The BMW i3 and GM Chevy Spark EV are both coming, although they won't use the existing DC charging infrastructure. Also, Mercedes B class (also Tesla powered) may work, but it also might not have any DC charging at all (or it will have Tesla DC charging or the upcoming competition to DC charging affectionately known as "Frankenplug").

I don't recommend any car without fast DC charging for the weather and miles you plan to drive, unless it is a Rav4 or Tesla with a big enough battery to handle all weather and road conditions.

 

[kentuckyleaf]

I'd really consider a Prius, unless you think they are ugly. You will get great milage on your long trips, and it will work fine on your short trips. It is a one car solution. Now I can say I love our Leaf, but I really wish I kept the Prius for longer trips, instead of the 15-20mpg 4Runner. It is painful driving the 4Runner on trips where we are not towing the camper, or in need of 4wd. When the gas pump reads $50 and is still running, I swallow hard.

I really don't understand why the government hasn't done more to promote the quick charger network. I don't know of one QC in the state of Kentucky.

If you want luxury, I think I'd wait for the Caddy ELR. It might have supercruise. Supercruise is something I want!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I've done my research, I know what to expect. I've driven multiple leafs, etc. So my question is not about the car in itself, but rather if it fits my habits and life. I want to make a decision on reality and not want. You guys have driven them for a few years now so what would you suggest?

Current cars:
2008 infiniti m45x (4.5L v8) Average 20 mpg. This is the car I'm thinking about replacing with a leaf.
2008 Mercedes c300 (3.0L v6) Average 25 mpg. Wifes car, this car will stay and be our long range 2nd car.
The #1 reason I'm considering a leaf is for cost per month of ownership alone, nothing else. Based on my numbers, I'm estimating the leaf to save me anywhere from $400-500/mo.

I'm an IT consultant so I drive all over the state of IN, but not all the time every day. Sometimes I wont leave the Indy area for weeks (like this month), but sometimes I'll drive 2 hours away for a week straight. When I stay in town, I'm usually around 50-60 miles a day, sometimes less. These are the days I keep thinking to myself that if I had a leaf, it would be absolutely perfect. My day would cost me $2.50 vs $10-20 to drive around. Trips to the gym, grocery, etc. would virtually be free vs. the 15 MPG in the infiniti.
I average around 25k-30k miles/year in just my car. My wife drives 6-8k/year.

What my thinking is that the Leaf would be my primary car, especially while I'm staying in town. On the occasions that I need to drive outside of the distance the leaf can handle, my wife and I just swap cars for the day since she drives 10 miles round trip every day to work. Long trips, we would obviously take the ICE.
Am I crazy in thinking this will work? I'm looking at a possible 24 mo. lease of a 2013 SL. My hardship is giving up a premium sedan for a leaf, but at the same time, an extra $500/mo is hard to pass up. I really like the leaf as a car as well, but its no M either. I will say, if the leaf were a 200+mi range EV, I'd do it no questions asked. I cant justify the price of a Tesla S currently, that's why I'm looking to the leaf.

What would you do? What do you guys suggest?

you drive waaaay too far for a lease. as far as trading cars based on your driving need for the day? I have been doing that for nearly 2 years so ya, its very possible if your SO is willing. I sold my other Prius in April 2011 and have been gas/EV since then and I also drive to jobs which can be between 5 and 200 miles one way although most run in the 20-50 mile range.

 

[lukati]

Thinking only in terms of $/mile, the most cost-efficient way to handle a situation with two people and two cars is for the person who needs to drive further on a given day to drive the more cost-efficient car on that day. In a situation with a Leaf (my fuel cost is about 1.5 cents/mile) and a 25mpg ICE (16 cents/mile at 4$/gallon) this general rule gets modified in the sense that the Leaf is driven by the person with the larger distance to cover as long as that distance fits comfortably within the range of the Leaf.

 

[Bluebull]

I think that you are on the right track. I have advised families(most families have 2 cars) to have an ev and a second car a range extended plug EV. I am by myself (widowed) and so I would have of an EV. My trips are by air or car rental. I only travel 1-2 trips a year.

You solution seems reasonable.