What if President Obama loses ?

[mkjayakumar]

I hope the Democrat wins, but what would be the state affairs one year from now if President Obama loses ? if I were to take a guess:

- the $7.5k subsidy would be removed and that would effectively kill the sales momentum of all EVs except Tesla and many EREVs, espeically the Volt. Essentially Leaf and Volt are dead.

- The Smyrna plan will effectively churning out batteries for the European market.

- The Blink charging stations will be all be pulled out and Ecotality will be dissolved. the rest, EVgo and Car Charging Inc etc.. will fold due to lack of demand.

- One would think that the above would not have an impact on Tesla, but there will be so much of pressure on the loans and negative propoganda against Tesla, that they would have tough time staying afloat making any profits. Most likely it will be an also-ran company making a few high end cars serving the highly motivated rich EV enthusiasts. Nothing more.

- Coal plants will be reopened with reduced enforcements on pollution control, making them competivive again with Natural gas.

- the charade of natural gas vehicles and fuel cell vehicles will get another lease of fresh air - not in the interest of alternative clearn energy vehicles, but simply to create FUD and kill the EV movement once for all.

- Wind and solar will die a slow natural death and permits for Wind farm will be slow to come, with many additional regulations.

- US will slowly slide back to 'we have enough Oil and Coal to survive another 500 years' mantra, while the rest of the world innovates itself out of this oil addiction.

 

[adric22]

I think you are panicking and rushing to conclusions. Even if Romney wins, I'm convinced most of the EV hate will start to disappear since most of it was really hatred towards Obama and not so much the EVs themselves. Once Romney is in office, he'll have bigger fish to fry than worrying about EV credits which have a self-imposed limitations anyway. It would be much easier for him just to let them expire as they were designed to do. That way he doesn't look bad to the liberals and he can still claim victory to the conservatives by saying something like he "did not renew them"

I'll give you a similar example. When Bill Clinton passed the assault weapons ban it also had a self-imposed expiration date. Bush simply allowed the ban to expire and refused to renew it. Again, very easy thing to politically. Much easier than trying to attack something directly.

 

[TinMachine]

What if worms had machine guns???
Answer: birds wouldn't mess with them..

You are what if'ng and that gets you nowhere fast. Remember that the president (whoever he is or will be) does not make laws, that is the purvue of Congress. So if a a Democrat wins the Presidency and the House and Senate go to the Rupublicans, we'll see another 4 years of Grid lock on Capitol Hill. That is the US 2 party system functioning as it always has and I might add, by design.

So if Romney wins and the Democrats win the majority in Congress, well it will be 4 years of Grid lock, just as before and just as we have been stuck in for the last 2-3 years.

I also might add that I was considering voting for Romney, especially after last night's debate debacle for Obama. I am one of those "undecideds" that you always hear the pollsters talk about. In reality he country goes through these swings in politics continually and until one party get the white house and a majority of the Congress, not much happens to make ordinary Americans lives better one way or another.

I generally lean Republican so I guess that makes me odd as I believe in technology, renewable energy and less dependence on foreign oil and drive a Nissan Leaf, a paradox to some of my close Democrat leaning friends. I care about the environment to...wow surprise surprise. But I also have a healthy dose of skepticism and common sense when it comes to politics. Most politicians are lawyers, not that there is anything wrong with that, but they tend to over complicate things.
But that is just one man's opinion or take on it.

In the end it's the local government that effects your life most directly, your town, county and to some degree state. These are the areas where I would focus on change if you really want it. I have written my local reps on occasion and attended town hall meetings when I felt I needed to express myself and have actually changed one or two minds over the years on a few issues in my local area. This has a tendency to bubble up through politics as politicians at least attempt to listen to their constituents.

OK end of rant....

 

[thankyouOB]

rmoney attacked green investing by the feds several times.
no one here should think solar and wind and EVs will be getting a penny of subsidy or research money in the next bgt if rmoney wins.

 

[WetEV]

what would be the state affairs one year from now if President Obama loses?
- US will slowly slide back to 'we have enough Oil and Coal to survive another 500 years' mantra, while the rest of the world innovates itself out of this oil addiction.

The USA does not, has not, and will not have enough oil to meet the demand ever since 1970. To meet demand, the USA has, is and must continue import oil. Unless of course we use a lot less oil.

World oil supply is meeting current demand, but only by use of high cost deep offshore oil wells and unconventional oil such as tar sands. To continue to do so will likely require even higher cost oil such as Arctic offshore.

Natural gas is replacing coal in power plants as natural gas is cheaper per kWh even with no pollution controls.

If natural gas is the answer, some combination of expensive and wasteful ng -> gasoline conversion, or slow CNG cars, or a lot of electric cars need to be built.

If coal is the answer, either expensive and wasteful coal -> gasoline conversion, or a lot of electric cars need to be built.

I'm not sure that Republicans will be against electric cars after the election, if they win.

It is different running for office than running the office.

 

[mkjayakumar]

From yesterday's debate..

• Mitt Romney on oil and gas permits on public lands: "I'll double them."

• President Obama: "The oil industry gets $4 billion a year in corporate welfare. Why wouldn't we want to eliminate that?"

• Mitt Romney: "By the way, I like coal."

• President Obama: "We've got to look at the energy sources of the future, like wind and solar."

 

[TinMachine]

Romney attacked irresponsible green spending. How many companies that received stimulus money from Obama have gone bankrupt after receiving the cash? I believe the current count is 9 and counting. If the government is going to act as a bank they should at least do their due diligence and know what kind of company they are pouring billions of dollars of cash into and have a way to recoup if the company goes belly up and skedaddles with the booty.

Of course the Fed is not a bank and I don't ever want it to be such, just as much as I don't want a government bureaucrat involved in my health care or health decisions.

Stimulate small business and industry (actual production of goods) in the US and production and jobs will come back = economic growth= lower trade deficit. Never underestimate the ingenuity of the American people.

So after this it would be prudent to be careful of how any party spends taxpayer money.

There is greed on both sides of the isle..of that have no doubt. How do you know a politician is lying? He has his/her mouth open!

 

[TinMachine]

From yesterday's debate..

• Mitt Romney on oil and gas permits on public lands: "I'll double them."

• President Obama: "The oil industry gets $4 billion a year in corporate welfare. Why wouldn't we want to eliminate that?"

• Mitt Romney: "By the way, I like coal."

• President Obama: "We've got to look at the energy sources of the future, like wind and solar."

We all hear what we want to hear don't we. End of political discussion on my end, agree to disagree. Feel free to get in the last word.

 

[thankyouOB]

Romney attacked irresponsible green spending. How many companies that received stimulus money from Obama have gone bankrupt after receiving the cash? I believe the current count is 9 and counting. If the government is going to act as a bank they should at least do their due diligence and know what kind of company they are pouring billions of dollars of cash into and have a way to recoup if the company goes belly up and skedaddles with the booty.

Of course the Fed is not a bank and I don't ever want it to be such, just as much as I don't want a government bureaucrat involved in my health care or health decisions.

Stimulate small business and industry (actual production of goods) in the US and production and jobs will come back = economic growth= lower trade deficit. Never underestimate the ingenuity of the American people.

So after this it would be prudent to be careful of how any party spends taxpayer money.

There is greed on both sides of the isle..of that have no doubt. How do you know a politician is lying? He has his/her mouth open!

fact check for you and rmoney:


rmoney: half of the recipients of green subsidies under obama have gone bankrupt. "That is a gross overstatement. Of nearly three dozen recipients of loans under the Department of Energy’s loan guarantee program, only three are currently in bankruptcy, although several others are facing financial difficulties. "
http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/debates/presidential/2012-10-03#fact-checks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also, i would rather the government vet my medical care than a for-profit health insurance company. all those companies do is skim 20% of the costs and turn it into profit, marketing and high executive bonuses.
i call mine blue crime because of the frequent and repeated errors it makes in paying my docs and paying its share of covered benefits on the first try.

 

[mkjayakumar]

If we keep harping on those failures like Solyandra, we will never make progress. On a new technology, there is bound to be some failures. And also Solyandra failed not because of mis-management, but due prices crashing from cheap Chinese manufacturers and an alternate Solar film technology taking over.

If you look at the bailouts the big banks received, these are chump change. I would not call Aone, Envia Systems or Tesla a failure.

 

[Nubo]

All I know is, it's election time again and so we get to hear about "clean coal".

 

[garygid]

To War or not should be the question, in my opinion.
Must the USA continue to be a war-mongering nation?

 

[derkraut]

What if worms had machine guns???
Answer: birds wouldn't mess with them..

You are what if'ng and that gets you nowhere fast. Remember that the president (whoever he is or will be) does not make laws, that is the purvue of Congress. So if a a Democrat wins the Presidency and the House and Senate go to the Rupublicans, we'll see another 4 years of Grid lock on Capitol Hill. That is the US 2 party system functioning as it always has and I might add, by design.

So if Romney wins and the Democrats win the majority in Congress, well it will be 4 years of Grid lock, just as before and just as we have been stuck in for the last 2-3 years.

I also might add that I was considering voting for Romney, especially after last night's debate debacle for Obama. I am one of those "undecideds" that you always hear the pollsters talk about. In reality he country goes through these swings in politics continually and until one party get the white house and a majority of the Congress, not much happens to make ordinary Americans lives better one way or another.

I generally lean Republican so I guess that makes me odd as I believe in technology, renewable energy and less dependence on foreign oil and drive a Nissan Leaf, a paradox to some of my close Democrat leaning friends. I care about the environment to...wow surprise surprise. But I also have a healthy dose of skepticism and common sense when it comes to politics. Most politicians are lawyers, not that there is anything wrong with that, but they tend to over complicate things.
But that is just one man's opinion or take on it.

In the end it's the local government that effects your life most directly, your town, county and to some degree state. These are the areas where I would focus on change if you really want it. I have written my local reps on occasion and attended town hall meetings when I felt I needed to express myself and have actually changed one or two minds over the years on a few issues in my local area. This has a tendency to bubble up through politics as politicians at least attempt to listen to their constituents.

OK end of rant....

+1....well stated.

 

[derkraut]

From yesterday's debate..

• Mitt Romney on oil and gas permits on public lands: "I'll double them."

• President Obama: "The oil industry gets $4 billion a year in corporate welfare. Why wouldn't we want to eliminate that?"

• Mitt Romney: "By the way, I like coal."

• President Obama: "We've got to look at the energy sources of the future, like wind and solar."

We all hear what we want to hear don't we. End of political discussion on my end, agree to disagree. Feel free to get in the last word.

Well....my last word is: I agree with you.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

does not matter who wins; EV subsidies are safe. (they are so small, its simply not a real budget concern despite what anyone thinks about them) GM is invested in the Volt and that is a "republican" stance to keep them floating. (flame me!)

either way, i cannot believe a project subsidy that adds up to a few hundred million would garner so much noise. the EV tax credit should be a rebate and even Obama does not have the balls to do the right thing.

what we need is the person who will drive legislation to the local level to get EV support.

* big fines and tows for EV charging violations

* elimination of demand charges for DCFCs

* a joint effort to install, maintain and promote a much larger EV charging infrastructure even if it requires a dual head/ multi charger (chademo/ J1772) interface we MUST get all auto manufacturers to pitch in since J1772 can handle much higher currents we can get GM, Ford and Toyota on board. i say; contribute cash, dealerships, etc to the public charging network or sell your cars to some other country.

now, the federal government has the power to force the hand of state governments to get all this done and they have done it before (55 mph)

the other thing is a step increase in the National gas tax but that is another topic in itself.

either way; when Obama took office 4 years ago, this country was spiraling out of control down the toilet. he has at least "slowed the roll" and did it by compromise on a lot of his platform which is the best anyone could do. no one could have fixed our issues in 4 years to everyone's satisfaction (or in 10 years!)

so he has done a great job in my mind. another thing to look at is things he wanted to do that did not get done. the oil subsidies is a much talked about subject and that needs to be eliminated. Big Oil is continuously funneling more and more cash to themselves and that has to stop because MOST of that money does not come back to our country in development, research or jobs.

allowing American Companies to operate here and not pay corporate taxes has to stop. either prevent them or start charging them a use fee when they are using our public infrastructure to run their business on our soil.

as far as "investment" subsidy failures. its funny we call Solyndra a failure when they were given a relatively small amount of cash then set out to survive on their own. what we REALLY need to do is run a balance sheet on what else the government pays for like the Highway fund, the Post Office, Medicade, Social Security, Education fund.

if ANY of those programs above were in the private sector which ones would still be standing??

obtw; the list above is not complete by a long shot.

 

[edatoakrun]

="DaveinOlyWA"
does not matter who wins; EV subsidies are safe. (they are so small, its simply not a real budget concern despite what anyone thinks about them)...

The $7500 tax credit is certainly not "safe", IMO.

One of the more prominent lies by Willard last night was his contention that he would find ~$5 trillion in tax "loopholes" to close, to offset his proposed huge tax cuts for the very high earning taxpayers (like himself).

Depending on their success in Congressional races, I expect that the republicans will definitely go after the EV tax credit.

Sure it's relatively tiny, but EVs have the same iconic status as Big Bird (the much smaller PBS subsidy) does, as part of the Socialist-Kenyan-Muslim conspiracy, against real-Christian-God-fearing-SUV-driving-Americans, to the know-nothing Tea-partier republican base.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

="DaveinOlyWA"
does not matter who wins; EV subsidies are safe. (they are so small, its simply not a real budget concern despite what anyone thinks about them)...

The $7500 tax credit is certainly not "safe", IMO.

One of the more prominent lies by Willard last night was his contention that he would find ~$5 trillion in tax "loopholes" to close, to offset his proposed huge tax cuts for the very high earning taxpayers (like himself).

Depending on their success in Congressional races, I expect that the republicans will definitely go after the EV tax credit.

Sure it's relatively tiny, but EVs have the same iconic status as Big Bird (the much smaller PBS subsidy) does, as part of the Socialist-Kenyan-Muslim conspiracy, against real-Christian-God-fearing-SUV-driving-Americans, to the know-nothing Tea-partier republican base.

its all opinion until the fat lady sings but the EV tax credit is a much compromised solution that was hammered out by both sides and awarded as a bone to the illusion of "green-ness" which explains is lameness and expiration.

it is safe no matter who wins.

 

[ztanos]

If Big Bird is counting pennies then the EV credit has to be looked at seriously.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I guess I am simply looking at this much different way. I consider the lateness of the current TV text credit to be a result a compromise because Republican simply didn't what it. if it were left up to the Democrats it would have been a tax rebate. after all with Ronnie and is 12 percent tax rate he would have enjoyed another 7500 dollars back and according to him most of the Democrats didn't pay taxes at all so that 7500 dollars only benefits Republicans according to him

 

[derkraut]

="DaveinOlyWA"
does not matter who wins; EV subsidies are safe. (they are so small, its simply not a real budget concern despite what anyone thinks about them)...

The $7500 tax credit is certainly not "safe", IMO.

One of the more prominent lies by Willard last night was his contention that he would find ~$5 trillion in tax "loopholes" to close, to offset his proposed huge tax cuts for the very high earning taxpayers (like himself).

Depending on their success in Congressional races, I expect that the republicans will definitely go after the EV tax credit.

Sure it's relatively tiny, but EVs have the same iconic status as Big Bird (the much smaller PBS subsidy) does, as part of the Socialist-Kenyan-Muslim conspiracy, against real-Christian-God-fearing-SUV-driving-Americans, to the know-nothing Tea-partier republican base.

Hey Ed: I'l bet you voted for Nancy Pelosi?? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: