danrjones
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
That reminds me of a joke one of my coworkers told me - they spent their first stimulus on take out, and their second on gym equipment.
Volkswagen ID.4 CUV
- Thread starter edatoakrun
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Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
That reminds me of a joke one of my coworkers told me - they spent their first stimulus on take out, and their second on gym equipment.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
danrjones said:
:lol:
This is my problem. I recreate a lot; hiking, biking, or simply walking the trail. All of which is "healthy" The common ideology is 150 "heart" points a week is recommended for good health. Well, I do 150 a day. In fact, I did 370 on my Olympic hike, tues. 240 on the OR Coast hike Wednesday. So I expect to lose about 5 lbs which is typical during summer.
But I don't ride when its raining (Olympia is setting daily dry spell records now. Today is 57 days in a row that the official rain gauge has not earned its keep) which is the best way to elevate the heart rate and keep it there unless climbing mountains of course so "soon" I will stop when the rain starts so that will be gone.
But... I also averaged over 150 heart points a day at work. Its warehouse which means a pretty high activity level but this week I transferred to another location (a mile away) that promises to be a much easier job so gonna be a much harder challenge to maintain the calorie burn.
Due to shipping logistical challenges every business is facing (every place I have been to this week has a sign up detailing what they don't have) well, this included us. It was a well planned launch of a brand new facility from a company that has one of the best logistical networks in the World and...
They only had received ONE product. The new location will the largest hazmat facility in the company anywhere in the World. So needless to say, we had nothing to do so unexpectedly got the whole week off with pay. This time off, I did do a few things to burn off calories but both also included some ample sessions of calorie replenishment therapy.
Which means those 5 lbs? Didn't lose them, they are just on hiatus for the Summer :lol:
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
cwerdna
Well-known member
I dropped by a VW dealer near closing time on Saturday and will be back on Sunday to test drive (did before at one of VW tours when I had little interest in the car). I wanted to try to two possible Bolt alternatives if I decide to try to pursue buyback for my Bolt (wasn't under recall until 8/20/021 (https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/aug/0820-bolt.html)).
I was surprised that per sales droid, they do not offer a 360 degree camera (Around View Monitor in Nissan parlance) at all on any trim level. I loved this feature on my Leaf and like the Bolt equivalent. Also, surprising was that there's no better stereo as a choice. I did briefly listen to the stereo and found it acceptable. A terrible stereo for me could be a deal breaker.
Prior to going to the dealer, I found https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html and https://www.vw.com/pre-order/ pretty confusing about what really the higher trims get you. Those "additional features" links are ummm... stupid, at best. Prior to visiting dealer, I watched https://insideevs.com/features/515131/vw-id4-trim-levels-compared/ at high speed and concluded I'd just go with with base trim (Pro). I wouldn't want to pay extra for the other stuff.
Since VW reliability is questionable and it is unknown for ID.4, I'd probably lease if I were to get one of these. If it turns out to be crap, I'd be rid of it at end of lease.
Just like an international PDF I'd found of the manual, the digital version (https://www.vwserviceandparts.com/digital-resources/online-owners-manual/, I put in a VIN found on a local dealer's inventory) in the high-voltage battery section encourages people to not keep the car above 80% SoC and avoid DC FC as your primary source of juice. That's a bit funny given that they give you 3 years of free EA charging...
From the manual: "If the vehicle will be unused for longer than 12 hours, leave it parked with a battery charge level of at least 30% and no more than 80% -> , e.g. at the airport before a trip." Looks like they have some UI for specifying max % SoC to charge to and there's also a minimum setting.
For minimum: "The vehicle initially charges up to the minimum battery charge level once it has been connected to the power. Only then are preferred charging times, low tariffs or a departure time for time-delayed charging considered." They also imply that a this is acceptable for a minimum setting: "20% for mild and warm outside temperatures".
At the moment, the ID.4 and Kona EV are probably the only two viable choices for me to replace Bolt if I got GM to buy it back. Niro EV has bad reliability record and thus is out. Tesla has done nothing to address my issues w/the 3 so nothing has changed there. On the flip side, Tesla resale value seems good, so that could make TCO lower if I got rid of it down the road... But, then there's the wait time if one orders (currently Jan 2022 for SR+).
I was surprised that per sales droid, they do not offer a 360 degree camera (Around View Monitor in Nissan parlance) at all on any trim level. I loved this feature on my Leaf and like the Bolt equivalent. Also, surprising was that there's no better stereo as a choice. I did briefly listen to the stereo and found it acceptable. A terrible stereo for me could be a deal breaker.
Prior to going to the dealer, I found https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-4.html and https://www.vw.com/pre-order/ pretty confusing about what really the higher trims get you. Those "additional features" links are ummm... stupid, at best. Prior to visiting dealer, I watched https://insideevs.com/features/515131/vw-id4-trim-levels-compared/ at high speed and concluded I'd just go with with base trim (Pro). I wouldn't want to pay extra for the other stuff.
Since VW reliability is questionable and it is unknown for ID.4, I'd probably lease if I were to get one of these. If it turns out to be crap, I'd be rid of it at end of lease.
Just like an international PDF I'd found of the manual, the digital version (https://www.vwserviceandparts.com/digital-resources/online-owners-manual/, I put in a VIN found on a local dealer's inventory) in the high-voltage battery section encourages people to not keep the car above 80% SoC and avoid DC FC as your primary source of juice. That's a bit funny given that they give you 3 years of free EA charging...
From the manual: "If the vehicle will be unused for longer than 12 hours, leave it parked with a battery charge level of at least 30% and no more than 80% -> , e.g. at the airport before a trip." Looks like they have some UI for specifying max % SoC to charge to and there's also a minimum setting.
For minimum: "The vehicle initially charges up to the minimum battery charge level once it has been connected to the power. Only then are preferred charging times, low tariffs or a departure time for time-delayed charging considered." They also imply that a this is acceptable for a minimum setting: "20% for mild and warm outside temperatures".
At the moment, the ID.4 and Kona EV are probably the only two viable choices for me to replace Bolt if I got GM to buy it back. Niro EV has bad reliability record and thus is out. Tesla has done nothing to address my issues w/the 3 so nothing has changed there. On the flip side, Tesla resale value seems good, so that could make TCO lower if I got rid of it down the road... But, then there's the wait time if one orders (currently Jan 2022 for SR+).
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
How do you feel about the size of the vehicle because the Kona is similar to Bolt but ID 4 is much larger. Its all of a mid size SUV. On the test drive, it drove heavy (because it is) and felt like the lift trucks I drive at work (along with their 9,000 lb counterweight) it lumbers along like a tank.
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Indeed. I test test drive ID.4 today. Due to COVID, both this and my Kona test drives were solo, which is a bit weird for a dealer test drive.
Yeah, ID.4 feels much bigger. The touchscreen LCD is larger on the ID.4 than the base one on the Kona so CarPlay looks a lot better.
I'm now leaning more towards Kona Electric as it's smaller and would be easier to park. I usually have no passengers and not much cargo. Kona EV is cheaper and would have a cheaper lease from all the openly advertised offers I'm seeing.
But, DC FC rate is slower on the Kona EV. I'm not clear if '22 Kona EV has switched from LG Chem to SK Innovation.
ID.4 also uses LG Chem, for now. Could I be going from one potential fire risk to another?
I am annoyed that ID.4 nor Kona EV have something like Around View Monitor/GM Surround Vision. This would be significant feature loss vs. my Bolt and previous Leafs. I use this feature a lot now.
If I were to go w/ID.4, I'd probably lease. Some of the prob reports at https://www.vwidtalk.com/forums/volkswagen-id-4.30/ give me pause coupled w/VW's not great reliability record and unknown reliability for ID.4.
Indeed. I test test drive ID.4 today. Due to COVID, both this and my Kona test drives were solo, which is a bit weird for a dealer test drive.
Yeah, ID.4 feels much bigger. The touchscreen LCD is larger on the ID.4 than the base one on the Kona so CarPlay looks a lot better.
I'm now leaning more towards Kona Electric as it's smaller and would be easier to park. I usually have no passengers and not much cargo. Kona EV is cheaper and would have a cheaper lease from all the openly advertised offers I'm seeing.
But, DC FC rate is slower on the Kona EV. I'm not clear if '22 Kona EV has switched from LG Chem to SK Innovation.
ID.4 also uses LG Chem, for now. Could I be going from one potential fire risk to another?
I am annoyed that ID.4 nor Kona EV have something like Around View Monitor/GM Surround Vision. This would be significant feature loss vs. my Bolt and previous Leafs. I use this feature a lot now.
If I were to go w/ID.4, I'd probably lease. Some of the prob reports at https://www.vwidtalk.com/forums/volkswagen-id-4.30/ give me pause coupled w/VW's not great reliability record and unknown reliability for ID.4.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Well there is always the Ariya...eventually
WetEV
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Audi e-tron has LG Chem cells. As does some models of Tesla.
However, the design is different than the Bolt's cells (higher power to energy ratio, for one).
I have a Samsung phone. The Samsung Note 7 had a problem. Other Samsung phones have not.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Unfortunately, Kia Niro EV (which uses SKI) has poor reliability ratings so that's ruled out. See below.SageBrush said:
https://web.archive.org/web/20201126141633/https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars/
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/reliability-problems-plague-newer-electric-cars-a2176942694/
I'd seen a post somewhere (Bolt group or VD ID talk, maybe, have to find it) where some guy claimed Hyundai moved to SKI for '22+ Kona EV. Will have to try to ask them for his sources since I can't find any confirmation.
Some future Hyundais are using SKI:
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/tech/2021/08/419_307490.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sk-innovation-hyundai-motor-electric/sk-innovation-to-work-with-hyundai-motor-kia-to-develop-hybrid-ev-batteries-idUSKBN2C3030
GM had seemingly good luck/experiences w/LG Chem w/gen 1 and 2 Volt + Spark EV for a year or two but, AFAIK, they have large buffers at the top and bottom. I can't speak to any other BEVs/PHEVs sold outside the US.
If you don't like the other vehicles, why not lease a LEAF (if you give up on the Bolt) and see what happens in the industry by the time your lease expires.
cwerdna
Well-known member
For me, Leaf has CHAdeMO which is a liability at this point vs. CCS.GerryAZ said:
It's possible in the next few months to 3 years, I may do a few road trips (had been wanting to do one to LA for awhile but been on hold due to COVID and work). CHAdeMO is somewhat of a liability (e.g. EA sites) but then there's rapidgate, which would be especially bad if I go when it's hot out. Just looking down highway 99, I picked a few random towns like Kettleman City and Tulare. Google weather said at 6 pm they were at 100 or 101 F. Bakersfield is at 102 F. It is only 87 F in Lebec.
I guess I'd have to fallback to flying or a rental car (hope the shortages are resolved by then).
But yes, leasing Leaf is a possibility.
I agree, LEAF with CHAdeMO is a limitation for long, fast road trips. FWIW, I have been able to rent from Enterprise a couple of times recently without issue. I rented a car for a day when I took my new motorcycle to the dealer on the far side of the Phoenix metro area for its 900-mile service in June (so I would not be stuck sitting at the dealer for the whole day) and rented a minivan to help a friend move some stuff a couple weeks ago, both with relatively short notice.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Not going to deny that the LEAF can be slower to charge but the range is about the same, price a bit lower (in most cases) and its still the only car that hasn't burned. Yes, there was a Texas incident that investigators later started an arson investigation on. Some theorized that the owner upset with degradation (it was a 24 kwh) decided to burn it to get insurance money from it. There was more information on the investigation at one time but I never saw a conclusion and the article that mentioned the investigation is also gone as well so...who knows?
But the Plus does a lot better in the Rapidgate Dept. I was still getting 54 KW (137 amps max) with pack at 106-109º on a 62.5 KW Chargepoint. I found that the first 400 miles can be done with minimal slowdowns but I have also been holding to no more than 75% SOC on DC charging so yeah, I would be making more stops.
I also "generally" didn't have to worry about high overnight lows. I did temps in the mid 80's on the Silver Falls Trip but didn't DC until after the hike. Pack hadn't cooled significantly but still hit 44 KW on the EVgo at Airport in Portland.
If you examine the new pricing structure, Nissan makes it obvious they are pushing the SV Plus. It simply comes with nearly everything standard.
goldbrick
Well-known member
Anyone in Denver can test drive a ID.4 (and a few other EVs) at the coming car show.
https://denverautoshow.com/ride-drive/
https://denverautoshow.com/ride-drive/
frontrangeleaf
Well-known member
Busy weekend, but we might try to get over there.
redLEAF
Well-known member
Had a old reservation (11/2020) for an ID.4 AWD Pro, got one or two email reminders from VW to finish my order (good thing is its $100 and then $400 to confirm details, all refundable) and then this past Sunday VW cancelled it and refunded my initial $100 fee. Kind of weird they didn't just say - 'go to the next step or we'll cancel your order' - but was on the fence with this one due to whole LG Chem battery being used (VW will switch to SK Innovation (until possibly they make their own) once the cars are made in the US as others have mentioned. On my other choice - the Hyundai IONIQ 5 - got a voice mail/email from their concierge desk - had not had a chance to return it, assume its about it being delayed until Winter from Fall (as posted on their site) but we'll see.
This is really just a heads up -- as VW has the RWD model in showrooms now they probably just wanted to clear out older on-line reservation holders and let the dealers do their thing.
This is really just a heads up -- as VW has the RWD model in showrooms now they probably just wanted to clear out older on-line reservation holders and let the dealers do their thing.
danrjones
Well-known member
What are people getting the ID4 $ at right now? Are the dealers negotiating any?
GRA
Well-known member
goldbrick
Well-known member
-15° Nightmare - warning to cold weather friends
Last night my wife and I decided to take the ID4 (2021 Pro S) for its first road-trip. Now likely we shouldn’t have now that I know more, but the trip was across Wisconsin from Milwaukee to near Chippewa Falls. ABRP told us we could go with one stop midway, and make the journey in about 5.5 hours.
We loaded up the kids and stuff and headed out. About 45 minutes in on the highway and I quickly realized we would not make it to the midway charger in Tomah, but we’d have to stop in Madison (about an hour earlier).
Super important context: it was cold. Not like cold for Florida, like Wisconsin cold. Single digits dropping down to -15°F.
Holy cow does that cut the range! So that was inconvenient as what was planned as 1 charging stop turned into 3 stops planned (each for at least 40 minutes).
Inconvenience - and we’d get to our destination at like midnight instead of 9:30pm, but hey, that’s an adventure and learning.
The nightmare started when we got to the EA station at the Walmart in Eau Claire.
At this point, we have 55 miles of range showing and the destination is 54 miles away deep into rural roads to a cabin where we’d meet some family friends. I’m not about to chance that as the car already has a 30 mile error in its estimation so far this cold night and now it is -12°F.
I get to the EA chargers and none of them will work.
I’m outside in the bitter bitter bitter cold and each time I start the charge, it starts as normal (we’ve already charged 2 times tonight) but as soon as it draws the electricity, it reads “charging process error” (or something close).
I try all 4 stalls. Same error each time.
It’s 11:30 at night. Temperature is dropping. I’ve got two kids in the back and an anxious wife and I cannot get the car to charge.
I call EA. They try to help, restarting stations, initiating the charging themselves, telling me to lift up on the plug… we try everything. I get the same error and all the stations again. “We think it is likely too cold…”
It’s -15°F. Like dangerous territory to be stranded. I know we can make it to somewhere for safety, but the car will not charge.
So I call my friend whose already asleep at the cabin we are going to and ask him to come get us. “Ok… I’ll be there by 12:50am” he says. A real trooper and a good friend.
We wait in the car - miserable worried kids who can’t sleep and a stressed and tired spouse and I’m feeling like a total idiot for buying this car, for bringing this car…
We sit in the parking lot with frost creeping over the windows and the climate control keeping the cold at bay, but damn… I’m getting worried.
At last my friend arrives and we load all our stuff and kids into his Palisade and make it to the cabin, leaving the ID.4. Make it there, all are safe and asleep soundly by 2am (after my friend gives the appropriate **** to me about EVs…)
…
Resolution: We drive back today around 1pm when it “warms up” to 10°F and I try charging.
Hallelujah, it works! Charges up while we get the grocery run list at Walmart and drive around killing time. I end the session at 90% SoC and then we make it to the cabin.
I share this just to caution anyone to think twice before venturing on a road trip when the temps are near or below 0°F. The range got cut by 40% and we got stranded unable to charge.
It was not a pleasant experience — and something I’ll never do again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/VWiD4Owners/comments/s9ukr6/15_nightmare_warning_to_cold_weather_friends/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=71573e0fec764025bbc43d396f19d2c8&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=s9ukr6
I wonder if the problem was with the EA station, the car's electronics or if things just shut down because the battery was too cold.
Last night my wife and I decided to take the ID4 (2021 Pro S) for its first road-trip. Now likely we shouldn’t have now that I know more, but the trip was across Wisconsin from Milwaukee to near Chippewa Falls. ABRP told us we could go with one stop midway, and make the journey in about 5.5 hours.
We loaded up the kids and stuff and headed out. About 45 minutes in on the highway and I quickly realized we would not make it to the midway charger in Tomah, but we’d have to stop in Madison (about an hour earlier).
Super important context: it was cold. Not like cold for Florida, like Wisconsin cold. Single digits dropping down to -15°F.
Holy cow does that cut the range! So that was inconvenient as what was planned as 1 charging stop turned into 3 stops planned (each for at least 40 minutes).
Inconvenience - and we’d get to our destination at like midnight instead of 9:30pm, but hey, that’s an adventure and learning.
The nightmare started when we got to the EA station at the Walmart in Eau Claire.
At this point, we have 55 miles of range showing and the destination is 54 miles away deep into rural roads to a cabin where we’d meet some family friends. I’m not about to chance that as the car already has a 30 mile error in its estimation so far this cold night and now it is -12°F.
I get to the EA chargers and none of them will work.
I’m outside in the bitter bitter bitter cold and each time I start the charge, it starts as normal (we’ve already charged 2 times tonight) but as soon as it draws the electricity, it reads “charging process error” (or something close).
I try all 4 stalls. Same error each time.
It’s 11:30 at night. Temperature is dropping. I’ve got two kids in the back and an anxious wife and I cannot get the car to charge.
I call EA. They try to help, restarting stations, initiating the charging themselves, telling me to lift up on the plug… we try everything. I get the same error and all the stations again. “We think it is likely too cold…”
It’s -15°F. Like dangerous territory to be stranded. I know we can make it to somewhere for safety, but the car will not charge.
So I call my friend whose already asleep at the cabin we are going to and ask him to come get us. “Ok… I’ll be there by 12:50am” he says. A real trooper and a good friend.
We wait in the car - miserable worried kids who can’t sleep and a stressed and tired spouse and I’m feeling like a total idiot for buying this car, for bringing this car…
We sit in the parking lot with frost creeping over the windows and the climate control keeping the cold at bay, but damn… I’m getting worried.
At last my friend arrives and we load all our stuff and kids into his Palisade and make it to the cabin, leaving the ID.4. Make it there, all are safe and asleep soundly by 2am (after my friend gives the appropriate **** to me about EVs…)
…
Resolution: We drive back today around 1pm when it “warms up” to 10°F and I try charging.
Hallelujah, it works! Charges up while we get the grocery run list at Walmart and drive around killing time. I end the session at 90% SoC and then we make it to the cabin.
I share this just to caution anyone to think twice before venturing on a road trip when the temps are near or below 0°F. The range got cut by 40% and we got stranded unable to charge.
It was not a pleasant experience — and something I’ll never do again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/VWiD4Owners/comments/s9ukr6/15_nightmare_warning_to_cold_weather_friends/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=71573e0fec764025bbc43d396f19d2c8&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=s9ukr6
I wonder if the problem was with the EA station, the car's electronics or if things just shut down because the battery was too cold.
