Trip Report - Clovis to Shaver Lake

[Randy3]

After leaving home with a 100% charge, my wife and I stopped at Nissan of Clovis to top off at their L2 station. We had used 18 miles getting from home to Clovis. We stayed at the dealer for about an hour and left their with 12 bars, but I don't think the top bar was full (we lost it pretty quickly after charging).

I drove in Eco mode exclusively and stayed 5 miles under the limit, except during the steepest part (see below). We didn't use climate control at all.

To check it out, I set the navigation to reach Shaver Lake without using freeways. It led us to Auberry Road up to Prather, then 168 up to Shaver Lake.

Things went pretty much as expected until we got to the steep grade just after the junction of 168 and Lodge Rd. Before that junction, we had traveled about 25 miles and had used 4 of our 12 bars (remember 1 may not have been full at the start). With 8 bars remaining, I thought the 16 mile hard climb up the hill would leave us with at least 4 bars when we got to the top -- wrong.

If you don't know 168, most of the trip up from the Lodge Rd junction to the top (a few miles to the town of Shaver Lake), is beautiful 4 lane highway with very little traffic during the off season. It's a 3000 foot climb in less than 14 miles. I tried to see if slowing way down would save battery, but going under about 25 mph gives no real benefit. The bubbles on the dash would not go below 3 unless I just stopped. I knew the miles remaining number would be meaningless, but watching the SOC bars get eaten up so quickly started to scare me. We were only getting about 2.5 miles per bar up this hill. I think the speed limit is 60 here, but we didn't go above 25 except for a few brief moments.

Starting (Clovis) elevation ~350 feet.
Junction 168/Lodge Road elevation ~1850 feet
Distance - 25 miles
Used just under 4 bars.

Max trip elevation just before Shaver Lake (town) ~5800 feet
Distance from junction 168/Lodge Road to Shaver Lake - 16 miles
at Shaver Lake - 2 bars (red ones) remain, receiving warnings that battery is low and miles remaining shows 12 miles.

----------------
Back to Clovis

Very few businesses were open when we got to the top. My wife liked looking at the snow up there but didn't want to get out in the cold (no, we weren't using climate control). So, just after Ken's Market (again, closed), we turned around and headed down the hill.

Regen effect -- travel back down to junction 168/Lodge Rd 16 miles almost all downhill.
Regained 1 bar (had 3 bars when arrived at 168/Lodge Rd)
Miles remaining went from 12 at the top to 58 at the bottom.
I rode the break as much as possible, with regen gauge showing 10-20 kw most of the time.

We took 168 back to Clovis. Even with just 3 bars, we traveled the 41 miles from Shaver Lake to Clovis. Just as we were getting off 168 to Herndon, the car went down to 2 bars, showed 19 miles remaining and told us the battery was low.

So, we had gone 82 miles on essentially a full charge, up 5,500 feet and back down, and taken a nice drive that included a couple of scary times when the car looked like it might not make the whole trip. My wife had never been up this road before. At the end of the trip she told me she'd like to go back up again sometime, but not in this car.

 

[edatoakrun]

After leaving home with a 100% charge, my wife and I stopped at Nissan of Clovis to top off at their L2 station. We had used 18 miles getting from home to Clovis. We stayed at the dealer for about an hour and left their with 12 bars, but I don't think the top bar was full (we lost it pretty quickly after charging). ...

So, we had gone 82 miles on essentially a full charge, up 5,500 feet and back down, and taken a nice drive that included a couple of scary times when the car looked like it might not make the whole trip. My wife had never been up this road before. At the end of the trip she told me she'd like to go back up again sometime, but not in this car.

Thanks for the report, Randy.

Just to be clear, it sounds like you drove 66 miles from Clovis (where you got to near-full charge) with 5,500 of elevation gain and loss, and had an indicated 19 miles of charge remaining at the end, right? Was that total elevation gain, if that exceeded net elevation gain (the difference in elevation of your start/end points) by much?

In any case, your drive exceeded my climb/range expectations. Do I recall correctly that other forum members have calculated about 1 KW expended for each 700 ft of elevation gain?
Sure looks like brake regen must be substantial, maybe it really is 50% in the real world?

Sorry about your wife's "range anxiety". But it just points out that NO BEV is really "complete" without the DC fast charge network, just as the ICEV could not be "complete" until gas stations were built.

 

[mwalsh]

but I don't think the top bar was full (we lost it pretty quickly after charging). ...

That's normal. Even after a full charge, I only get ~3 miles out of that first bar.

 

[abasile]

@Randy3: Thank you for so much for making the drive and reporting back to us! This is LEAF mountain climb number two, and the biggest recorded elevation gain to date. You are to be commended for bravely sticking it out, even with the low battery concerns.

Of particular interest to me is the final 16 miles of the climb, over which you gained 3950 feet (1850' to 5800') and used roughly six bars (let's say ~12 kWh). 16 nominal "flatland" miles should consume about 3.8 kWh, so that means an extra ~8.2 kWh to climb the 3950'. That's close to an additional 2.1 kWh per 1000' climbed, which seems high.

Let's consider the entire climb from Clovis, which involved climbing 5450' over 41 miles, and used roughly ten bars (let's say ~20 kWh). 41 nominal flatland miles would require ~9.8 kWh. That means it took, on average, an additional ~1.9 kWh per 1000' climbed, which is still on the high side. While we were hoping for closer to 1.3 kWh / 1000', that would only be achievable with 100% efficiency.

If I, a mountain resident, buy a LEAF, then I'm looking at a 37 mile drive home from Fontana Nissan up CA 18, and a net elevation gain of 4630' (1500' to 6130') with a few ups and downs. At ~2 kWh per 1000', plus 37 flatland miles, that's a total of 18.1 kWh, or 76% of a full charge. Once CA 330 re-opens this summer after repairs, the drive from Fontana Nissan will be 31 miles instead of 37, requiring closer to 70% of a full charge. While that should be perfectly fine to start with, it might become problematic in a few years given some battery capacity loss. On the other hand, a DC fast charger (or even a L2 charger) at the base of CA 330 or CA 18 could remove that concern. (I'd only drive the LEAF "down the hill", and back up, once or twice per week at the most.)

An EV with 150+ miles of nominal range would be great for us, but unless one buys a Tesla (not me), that could be years away. A nominal 100 mile range will become more usable as charging infrastructure gets built out.

 

[abasile]

Also, it sounds like the regen performed quite well. And we now know for sure that it is possible to gain bars!

 

[smkettner]

Would make a nicer trip if you rented a cabin for the night and could recharge. Otherwise you really needed an L2 near some destination shopping and eating to make the trip more enjoyable. It does highlight the limits of the Leaf for longer distance travelling. And of course if there was a QC 2/3 up the hill it would have been easy. That day will not come soon enough.

 

[garygid]

Or, a QC near the base of the climb, and another up in the town.

Then, the L2 re-fuel in Clovis would not have been necessary.

 

[edatoakrun]

Ok, now I'm confused, and sorry if I confused others with my earlier post below.

Randy, please report if you really, on a (near) full charge, drove 82 miles with 5500 ft of elevation gain and descent, and had and indicated 19 miles of charge left. That's the way it reads to me (now) but it sounds too good to be true.

After leaving home with a 100% charge, my wife and I stopped at Nissan of Clovis to top off at their L2 station. We had used 18 miles getting from home to Clovis. We stayed at the dealer for about an hour and left their with 12 bars, but I don't think the top bar was full (we lost it pretty quickly after charging). ...

So, we had gone 82 miles on essentially a full charge, up 5,500 feet and back down, and taken a nice drive that included a couple of scary times when the car looked like it might not make the whole trip. My wife had never been up this road before. At the end of the trip she told me she'd like to go back up again sometime, but not in this car.

Thanks for the report, Randy.

Just to be clear, it sounds like you drove 66 miles from Clovis (where you got to near-full charge) with 5,500 of elevation gain and loss, and had an indicated 19 miles of charge remaining at the end, right? Was that total elevation gain, if that exceeded net elevation gain (the difference in elevation of your start/end points) by much?

In any case, your drive exceeded my climb/range expectations. Do I recall correctly that other forum members have calculated about 1 KW expended for each 700 ft of elevation gain?
Sure looks like brake regen must be substantial, maybe it really is 50% in the real world?

Sorry about your wife's "range anxiety". But it just points out that NO BEV is really "complete" without the DC fast charge network, just as the ICEV could not be "complete" until gas stations were built.

 

[Randy3]

Randy, please report if you really, on a (near) full charge, drove 82 miles with 5500 ft of elevation gain and descent, and had and indicated 19 miles of charge left. That's the way it reads to me (now) but it sounds too good to be true.

Yes, that's what happened. We started with a 100% charge in Clovis, drove 41 miles uphill and at the top had 12 miles remaining showing with 2 red bars. We then turned around and went back down to Clovis. We ended with 19 miles remaining showing with 2 red bars. The car was telling us that the battery was low both at the top and again at the bottom.

The regen gained one bar going down but it traveled off that bar for a long time.

 

[edatoakrun]

[/quote]

Yes, that's what happened. We started with a 100% charge in Clovis, drove 41 miles uphill and at the top had 12 miles remaining showing with 2 red bars. We then turned around and went back down to Clovis. We ended with 19 miles remaining showing with 2 red bars. The car was telling us that the battery was low both at the top and again at the bottom.

The regen gained one bar going down but it traveled off that bar for a long time.[/quote]

Wow!

82 miles seems close to what a lot of owners are reporting WITHOUT more than a mile of "up" thrown in. Great news for me, as there is only "flat" in one direction from my home.

I don't see how this squares with the 1.3 kw use per 1000 ft of climb estimate, unless regen is well over 50%. Am I missing something here?

Randy, Do you have an idea of your average speed and heater use, if any?

 

[abasile]

@Randy3: Another question would be, how constant was your speed while climbing? Having to slow for curves and then re-accelerate, uphill, would seem to be costly in terms of energy use. It would seem to me that climbing at a constant 40 mph or so would be ideal, even if you have to take some curves a little hard. On his Mt. Baldy climb (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2724), "sparky" maintained 35-45 mph and seemed to do well in terms of energy usage. Also, it seems possible that maintaining only 25 mph might not be as efficient as 40 mph due to the overhead involved in keeping the car running longer.

 

[Boomer23]

@Randy3: Another question would be, how constant was your speed while climbing? Having to slow for curves and then re-accelerate, uphill, would seem to be costly in terms of energy use. It would seem to me that climbing at a constant 40 mph or so would be ideal, even if you have to take some curves a little hard. On his Mt. Baldy climb (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2724), "sparky" maintained 35-45 mph and seemed to do well in terms of energy usage. Also, it seems possible that maintaining only 25 mph might not be as efficient as 40 mph due to the overhead involved in keeping the car running longer.

On most of these mountain roads, you have one lane in each direction, except for certain stretches of three lanes for passing, in my experience. I would feel pressured trying to maintain 25 mph with anxious ICE drivers and trucks behind me during busy times. I'm not sure I'd enjoy that commute on a regular basis.

 

[garygid]

In CA, if you are "slow traffic" with more than 5 cars behind you, you are "required" to use a turnout and let them pass.

 

[abasile]

Randy3 indicated that his Shaver Lake climb was on a four lane (two per direction) highway with little traffic, so going only 25 mph wouldn't have been a problem.

Personally, on our two lane mountain ascent (CA 330), I'm comfortable at a constant 40-45 mph (including on curves), and even then, I use turnouts as needed to let faster traffic pass given that 55 mph is the posted limit.

 

[Randy3]

@Randy3: Another question would be, how constant was your speed while climbing? Having to slow for curves and then re-accelerate, uphill, would seem to be costly in terms of energy use. It would seem to me that climbing at a constant 40 mph or so would be ideal, even if you have to take some curves a little hard. On his Mt. Baldy climb (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2724), "sparky" maintained 35-45 mph and seemed to do well in terms of energy usage. Also, it seems possible that maintaining only 25 mph might not be as efficient as 40 mph due to the overhead involved in keeping the car running longer.

I'll have to try this again sometime and keep the speed constant. I played with it some on this trip because I was trying to see if I could find a "sweet spot" - but I don't think I ever found one.

 

[abasile]

@Randy3: Another question would be, how constant was your speed while climbing? Having to slow for curves and then re-accelerate, uphill, would seem to be costly in terms of energy use. It would seem to me that climbing at a constant 40 mph or so would be ideal, even if you have to take some curves a little hard. On his Mt. Baldy climb (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2724), "sparky" maintained 35-45 mph and seemed to do well in terms of energy usage. Also, it seems possible that maintaining only 25 mph might not be as efficient as 40 mph due to the overhead involved in keeping the car running longer.

I'll have to try this again sometime and keep the speed constant. I played with it some on this trip because I was trying to see if I could find a "sweet spot" - but I don't think I ever found one.

No matter how you cut it, climbing 5450' is going to require a fair amount of juice. The important thing is, you've demonstrated that the LEAF can handle such a climb, and pick up plenty of regen on the way down to boot. Now we're just talking about potential optimizations, which ideally might even help your wife to feel a bit more comfortable making the trip in the LEAF next time. :mrgreen: I'm appreciative that you were willing to do this "experiment". Now that we're getting a series of storms from the Gulf of Alaska, however, it might be a while before another run is feasible.

 

[HarryHouck]

We'll try a trip from Fresno's Tower District to Shaver Lake this summer. We'll stay in a cabin overnight with trickle charging!

 

[cdub]

At the end of the trip she told me she'd like to go back up again sometime, but not in this car.

Ahhh Wife range anxiety. I know it. Our significant others (who aren't living on these forums) have less tolerance than we do.

 

[nader]

I have been pushing the limits lately since I now no longer am interested in driving ICE cars. I made it to Camp Edison from Herndon/99, one bar left. Paid 10 bux for a day pass and used my Ingineer 16amp charger with 50amp RV plug adapter at an RV site near the lake. We ordered a pizza in Shaver which we ate while we charged. Whipped out the iPad and mounted it on the dash and watched The Town with audio playing through the car stereo via bluetooth connection. It was 42 deg and raining that day.

Last weekend we did Squaws Leap near Auberry and found a 50amp RV plug near the visitor center behind an abandoned BLM ranger house. Hiked to the river while the car charged. Sweet!

My stupidest drive to date was Fresno to Sacramento. It took almost 9 hours up to Sac with stops in Merced at Stockton. GF did not like that one. Out Stockton stop was about 4.5 hrs and Merced was about 2hrs. Tailwind on the way back and judicious drafting made it about a 7.5 hr trip. I averaged 5.2 M/kWh on the return trip. 4.7 up. We stayed at the Courtyard Marriott in Sac and used a Chargepoint station. Very cool.

 

[Randy3]

Great reports! So, now I know of three LEAF's in Fresno. We're getting there.