TireRack Troubles

[bobkart]

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from buying their tires/wheels/etc. from TireRack. It's more of a heads-up that what's advertised on their website might not be accurate. And that not every customer service representative understands things like inflation pressure and treadwear ratings.

These wheels and tires showed up today. When I compare what's written on the tires with what your website advertised them as, I see two problems.

First, these tires were advertised as having 51psi maximum inflation pressure. But written on the tire is 44psi. I used that specification as part of my decision-making, and now I see that it was misinformation.

Secondly, the treadwear rating on these tires was advertised as 400, but these tires have 500 written on them. Again this was a factor in deciding to purchase these tires, yet it failed to actually be true. I understand that 500 instead of 400 means the tires should last longer, but conversely, 500 instead of 400 means the tires are likely that much less sticky.

What is going on here? Did I get shipped different tires from what I ordered? What is the point of having specifications for tires people are deciding between if those specifications won't actually match what they get?

This tires branding was updated to 500 AA A and 44 max psi per the manufacturer. They advised that the tire’s performance should be the same or previous rating, as the construction has not changed.

So when you say "the tire's performance should be the same", does that mean I *can* safely fill these to 51psi? (Tolerable inflation levels being part of the overall "performance" of a tire.)

Also, when you say "the construction hasn't changed", that may be true, but treadwear ratings are more about the *compound* of rubber used, not the construction. So to achieve the higher treadwear rating, they may have hardened the compound, which will likely lead to less grip. People routinely use treadwear ratings to assess grip (lower rating suggestive of higher grip, "all other things equal").

Also, I would have preferred to know what the real specifications were *before* I placed an order. My question then would be why the advertised specifications (on your website) aren't kept up to date with what the true specifications are.

Why would you fill to 51 psi when this vehicle recommends 36 psi?

That doesn't answer my question.

I can answer your question easily, but first expect an answer to mine.

And that wasn't my only question.

You can safely fill to the maximum shown on the tire, which Is 44.

That's what I'm talking about then. The performance of the tire *is* different from what was advertised. The tires I ordered could be safely filled to 51psi. The tires I received can only be safely filled to 44psi.

As to why fill them higher than recommended, it's well known among Leaf owners that the 36psi recommendation leads to abysmal rolling resistance compared to higher numbers like 44psi. Advice is routinely given and followed to fill them higher than recommended, for better energy efficiency. I personally have seen this improvement, as has most everyone reporting back on their experiences after trying it.

Also, anyone who has ever used their vehicle in a competition situation (Autocross for example) understands that increasing tire pressure over recommended levels will (up to a point) yield better tire performance.

The treadwear rating is an indicator of how long the tire is expected to last, compared to a “benchmark” tire. Treadwear rating literally has nothing to do with how much grip the tire can generate. Anecdotally, there is a general correlation between lower treadwear numbers and more grip, but it is not a causation effect, nor is it a direct correlation. A tire manufacturer can, and many have in the past, change(d) the UTQG treadwear rating on a tire while not changing anything else about it.

I understand your point about not receiving what was advertised. Our site was not updated because we were not made aware of the change when they were sold.

In the end, if you are not happy with these tires, we can have them returned under Continental’s 60-day customer satisfaction warranty. They would require that you purchase another Continental or General tire brand to replace these tires under this warranty.

I completely disagree with this:

> Treadwear rating literally has nothing to do with how much grip the tire can generate.

There *is* a correlation, as evidenced in this article:

https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/motorsport-messages-from-marshall/utqg-treadwear-numbers-what-do-they-mean

Yes it's not a perfect correlation, and note I only said "suggestive of higher grip" and especially "all other things equal".

Of course a manufacturer can change those numbers without any other change to the tire. Certainly if they were "wrong" (less reflective of reality) before the change than after.

Still, given two tires of identical size, tread pattern, construction, ... ("all other things equal"), if one tire's compound yields twice the tread life as the other, it's a sure bet that the tire with the shorter tread life *will* yield higher grip levels (unless the manufacturer really screwed up and just built a tire with a quickly-wearing compound that had no upside to that compound-choice downside).

No need to reply this this message. I see your other 'last word' on this as 'return them to Continental if you don't like them (as long as you replace them with another of their products)'. I will make them work for my application. My point is that they were decided on using information you advertised that wasn't true. I.e. I may have made a different choice had I know the truth.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Tire Rack sold a set of snow tires I had ordered when in stock, and I had to wait another week or two to get them. They are not terrible - they are typical.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

Some employees should not be in customer service, this is one of them. They should have apologized for sending you the incorrect tire than from the specs on their website. Say that the mfg changed the specs their website did not have the updated info. Send you a UPS return label and have UPS come pick up the tires. Give you a full refund and see if you would like a replacement set.

 

[bobkart]

Thanks for both of your feedbacks . . . I agree with all of it.

 

[Nubo]

For an item sold under false advertising (inadvertent as it might be) a full refund should not be subject to any conditions at all. You could have insisted upon it, and reminded them of their legal jeopardy. But since you agreed to keep the tires, that is probably no longer an option.

 

[bobkart]

Agreed. Those differences from what was advertised weren't dealbreakers for me, or I would have made a much bigger stink. (And checked them before I installed them!)

In fact, had there been only *one* difference from the advertised specs, I may not have even contacted them. Two pushed me over that line.
More annoying was the attitude of the CSR ("why would you want to ...").

I am wondering now though, what people think of even-higher-than-44psi inflation levels. Obviously there's a point of sacrificing too much grip for that extra reduced rolling resistance (due to contact patch shrinkage). And tire wear that's too concentrated in the middle.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Some people here have run 50psi. I don't recommend it, but I suppose that if the tires aren't running fully loaded then the better ones can take it. I sure wouldn't do it with Chinese brand tires, or even with Chinese or Turkish-made international brands...

 

[powersurge]

I don't understand the original poster's Reasoning for being so incensed...

Yes, the tire he got had a higher rating.. So shoot TIRERACK... No one can say that a tire with a 500 rating has poor traction. They may have improved that model...

Finally.. NO ONE should be filling their tires to 50 PSI.. Do you want to kill yourself? That is like complaining that you can't run the car at 10,000 RPM... I have been running my tires to 40 PSI for years.. Now someone wants more.. ?????

I am glad that I do not sell to the general public,

Get A Grip...

 

[Nubo]

...I am wondering now though, what people think of even-higher-than-44psi inflation levels. Obviously there's a point of sacrificing too much grip for that extra reduced rolling resistance (due to contact patch shrinkage). And tire wear that's too concentrated in the middle.

I arrive at my tire pressures empirically; adjusting 2PSI at a time until I bracket my preferred handling. That turned out to be 44PSI for the Ecopia tires on 2012 LEAF and 42PSI for the Michelins on the 2015. Tires seem to wear evenly at these pressures too. The recommended 36PSI quickly resulted in feathering on the shoulders of the Ecopias (could feel it with my hands) after just a few thousand miles before I made the adjustment.

 

[BrockWI]

Just chiming in that I have purchased at least 5 sets of tires from tire rack. I can for sure remember at least two of the sets not being what I ordered. One of them was a "closeout" and less expensive so I bought them becasue I had good luck with them but they ran out and sent me the new version. They never sent an email or noted anything on the order, so I called and they just said they ran out and wanted to honor the order. Another time it wasn't a close out but it wasn't what I ordered, when I called about that one it was similar to the OP, where they said the manufacture "just" changed the specs on the tire and they were in the process of updating their site to match. Again it was OK for me and both turned out fine, but are we seeing a trend here?

 

[frontrangeleaf]

I buy a lot of tires. Between the 4 cars and the camper we have 8 sets on dedicated wheels.

Tirerack has always been exemplary. I use Discount Tire for my local guy and Tirerack for online purchases. Both have been great.

That said I’m sure stuff happens. This sounds more like an anomaly than anything else to me.

 

[Linus]

I have looked at buying tires at Tire Rack many times. Every time I have found better prices elsewhere.

 

[powersurge]

Following up on what another poster stated---

A company does not have to inform the customer if there are changes in the designs of the identical model of a product... They can substitute the new (or old) model if the manufacturer ever makes changes... Otherwise there would be wars if customers wanted the one with the new types of ... (washers, for example).

 

[Nubo]

Following up on what another poster stated---

A company does not have to inform the customer if there are changes in the designs of the identical model of a product... They can substitute the new (or old) model if the manufacturer ever makes changes... Otherwise there would be wars if customers wanted the one with the new types of ... (washers, for example).

There's a difference between insubstantial changes, and a change to primary specifications that are advertised and upon which OP based a purchasing decision. The treadwear was an improvement and I wouldn't hold them liable for that. However, the max inflation pressure was downgraded. Whether or not they were obligated to inform, they should still have offered a full refund once the complaint was made.