"Time of Use" and the art of war!!!

[lukati]

Here is a nice website with strategies to reduce your carbon footprint.

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You will find many interesting links on that website. For instance: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/03/the-phantoms-ive-killed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Here is a nice website with strategies to reduce your carbon footprint.

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You will find many interesting links on that website. For instance: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2012/03/the-phantoms-ive-killed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks. Great read, and some great ideas. Not sure about the whole family bathing in the same bathwater, then routing it to the washing machine to do the clothes! http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/06/b...apanfuel.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&ref=business&

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Yes get rid of the second fridge. Maybe put it on timer to be off during peak TOU.

I was thinking about the second, 12 year, old fridge. We use it mainly for the freezer. MAYBE, a small new stand alone freezer would use a lot less energy? That would be cheap and easy to do.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

You need to find out where your energy is going, we all know its the pool pump, the AC and the laundry (if electric).

That second fridge does not consume much if its never opened, unless it has a leak but that is easily tested.. but do you really need that second fridge?. Kids means high electric bills, mostly from the clothes dryer (hopefully that is on gas) and leaving doors wide open with the AC running.. . Set the AC at 78 F in the summer, wear shorts and lots of ceiling fans, even better if you shut it off completely. In Mali I find a small window AC to dehumidify the air if needed and floor fans are all I need at night.

Cut down pool pump time to the minimum.. You know the pool has a huge heat storage potential, I wonder if it could be used to cool the house?.. or run a swamp cooler if your humidity is low enough.

Hi Herm: Do you really live in Timbuktu! I thought that was just a song or something. Sorry, you must get that a lot :mrgreen: I have tried to running my pool for 6 hours a day, and the result is an algae nightmare. 8 seems to work ok but, honestly, I have never tried running it only from midnight to 8 AM before. Guess it's the same???? Yes, the pool has great cooling potential. However, I do it the old fashion way, and JUMP IN! :lol:
Thx, Bob

 

[lerryvon]

What is the best water level we should keep when using the electric water heater rod?

 

[Herm]

Hi Herm: Do you really live in Timbuktu!

Nah its a joke

Are you guys allowed to dry your clothes on a clothesline in California?.. assuming you have a backyard. Since I dont use much AC I find the biggest draw is the water heater, so I do my laundry with cold water and dont use a dryer.. I think dishwashers also consume a lot but I'm not sure. Anyway you look at it kids are expensive.

 

[cracovian]

Hi Herm: Do you really live in Timbuktu!

Nah its a joke

Are you guys allowed to dry your clothes on a clothesline in California?.. assuming you have a backyard. Since I dont use much AC I find the biggest draw is the water heater, so I do my laundry with cold water and dont use a dryer.. I think dishwashers also consume a lot but I'm not sure. Anyway you look at it kids are expensive.

Dishwashers use minimum amounts of water for what they do. Any type of hand washing or even pre-rinsing (not recommended) is a total waste and will use 10 X more.

 

[smkettner]

Yes get rid of the second fridge. Maybe put it on timer to be off during peak TOU.

I was thinking about the second, 12 year, old fridge. We use it mainly for the freezer. MAYBE, a small new stand alone freezer would use a lot less energy? That would be cheap and easy to do.

+1, still might put it on a timer to cut off a few hours of peak TOU. Off from 2p to 6p should not defrost anything.
I am surprised with all the new techno gadgets on new fridges that there is no set back of a few degrees that can be on a timer.
Or even have the ice maker off and defrost cycle off during peak TOU.

If 50 million fridges had this feature it would make a huge difference IMO.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Yes get rid of the second fridge. Maybe put it on timer to be off during peak TOU.

I was thinking about the second, 12 year, old fridge. We use it mainly for the freezer. MAYBE, a small new stand alone freezer would use a lot less energy? That would be cheap and easy to do.

+1, still might put it on a timer to cut off a few hours of peak TOU. Off from 2p to 6p should not defrost anything.
I am surprised with all the new techno gadgets on new fridges that there is no set back of a few degrees that can be on a timer.
Or even have the ice maker off and defrost cycle off during peak TOU.

If 50 million fridges had this feature it would make a huge difference IMO.

I bet the old GE fridge could handle a couple hours off during peak. My uber expensive Thermador inside the house has an energy saving "off cycle". However, it cripples this monster. Hardly makes ice in the Summer! In all fairness, however, that was a Craigslist special :? ......
I am thinking on replacing the GE with just a freezer that would run for about 1/4 the energy. I promised the wife I would keep the fridge handy to plug in for the occaisonal and fairly infrequent party.

I just decided to buy a new cover for the electric spa too. That, coupled with a second insulating blanket under the cover may save some watts. However, for the future, looks like th newer spas draw far less power. Food for thought.

I also need to adjust the "run the pool at midnight" plan. Forgot that I need to run the solor water heater for a few hours mid day to catch the hot water. Too bad.....

 

[lkkms2]

For my pool I use two products that help reduce algae, chlorine use, maintenace effort and pool pumping time.

1) NoPhos or now called PHOSfree to reduce phosphates needed for algae to grow. If your phosphates are more than 100 ppm it is much easier for algae to grow

And

2) Zodiac Nature2 express cartridge that slowly reduces mineral sanitizers. They recommend changing the cartridge every six month, but in San Diego I just use it for the summer time. (Reminds me I have to order for this summer. I bought the starter kit at Leslie's Pool Supplies, normally order the replacement cartridges over the Internet as it is much cheaper.)

I usually split my pump time - a few hours at the end of the day and a few hours at beginning of the day to mix and distribute the hot/cold water water at the top (covered with solar blanket). I also cover the pool pump filter with an umbrella so the water in the filter doesn't get extremely hot in the summer.

Good luck with your energy savings.

 

[lemketron]

If you really want to know where your power is going, per circuit and per minute (rather than having to guess with a TED), check out the eMonitor from Powerhouse Dynamics. I installed one of these in my electrical panel when I expanded my solar system after buying my LEAF and it's just amazing.

You can read more about it here:
http://www.powerhousedynamics.com/residential-energy-efficiency/electricity-monitor-features-circuit-level-monitoring/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can find it on Amazon, but I recommend the folks at EnergyCircle since they really know and support the product:
http://www.energycircle.com/shop/emonitor-energy-monitor-powerhouse-dynamics.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finally, you can also download and run the iPhone app in "demo" mode which will show you some of the cool reporting features it has:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/emonitor/id404820611?mt=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The emonitor web site has much more detailed reporting and graphing, but does not appear to have a "demo" mode to show how it works. Basically, you can drill down into any circuit to see what each circuit is consuming, and when. You can also track how much power is being used to charge your LEAF, and you can track your solar production too.

It would be nice if the reporting was better tied into utility TOU rates (both for cost analysis and for selecting the best tariff to be on) but the data is all there and exportable to .csv files should you want to crunch the numbers yourself.

If you love to have real data, and want to see where your power is really going (and when), I don't think you can beat the eMonitor. If your electricity bill is over $200/month (before solar), I suspect you'll find enough savings opportunities to pay for the cost of the eMonitor.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Thanks for the great tips. How have you preserved your battery? That's amazing!

For my pool I use two products that help reduce algae, chlorine use, maintenace effort and pool pumping time.

1) NoPhos or now called PHOSfree to reduce phosphates needed for algae to grow. If your phosphates are more than 100 ppm it is much easier for algae to grow

And

2) Zodiac Nature2 express cartridge that slowly reduces mineral sanitizers. They recommend changing the cartridge every six month, but in San Diego I just use it for the summer time. (Reminds me I have to order for this summer. I bought the starter kit at Leslie's Pool Supplies, normally order the replacement cartridges over the Internet as it is much cheaper.)

I usually split my pump time - a few hours at the end of the day and a few hours at beginning of the day to mix and distribute the hot/cold water water at the top (covered with solar blanket). I also cover the pool pump filter with an umbrella so the water in the filter doesn't get extremely hot in the summer.

Good luck with your energy savings.

 

[smkettner]

I always wonder why people do not put piping in the concrete decking.
Generally concrete is too hot and the pool is too cool for my taste.

 

[davewill]

I always wonder why people do not put piping in the concrete decking.
Generally concrete is too hot and the pool is too cool for my taste.

A concrete deck is usually only 4 inches deep, and should be reinforced with rebar, so there's no room for 2 or 3 inch pipe, and even if there were room it would weaken the slab. They do run plumbing through the slab of a house, but it is MUCH thicker.

Also, I don't think the "hot" concrete is actually any warmer under the surface than soil is.

 

[smkettner]

I am thinking 1/2" like home plumbing. Maybe even 3/8 pex.
Could have several parallel loops to increase volume.
Use a separate lower volume pump. Should be less to pump around level vs going to the second story roof solar heaters I see.

Hydronic floor heating is fairly common... just thinking to reverse the effect.
Might require pavers of some sort over the concrete.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Results are in!!!!!! My electric bill is now posted for the month of March. The results of the following three measures are reflected below:
1. Converted from SDGE tiered electric rates to time of use rates in the month of March.
2. Started charging the Leaf mostly from midnight to 5 AM. Maybe 70% of the time. Drove about 1,000 miles that month.
3. Employed a series of $10 timers around the house, ensuring some things generally went off from noon to 6PM. Also changed the time of day I run my pool pump and heat my spa, as well as when we use appliances, like the dishwasher when, and only when, convenient.

March KW used::: 1,226; total elec bill: $211.31; avg cost per KW: 17 cents
for comparison,
February KW used: 1,254; total elec bill: $336.61; avg cost per KW: 27 cents

With the $160 of gas savings, my total savings for the month was $$285.30

Oh yeah :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

almost forgot, got a new friggin car!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[LakeLeaf]

March KW used::: 1,226; total elec bill: $211.31; avg cost per KW: 17 cents
for comparison,
February KW used: 1,254; total elec bill: $336.61; avg cost per KW: 27 cents

That's pretty impressive - same total usage, but only 2/3 the cost -and it doesn't sound like it has been a massive inconvenience for you. Well done!

 

[tallgirl]

Solar.

I have 2.8kW DC (keeps 25kWh of batteries topped up and feeds back to the grid) and 2.1kW ACPV (AC solar modules).

That's how I fight the utility (Reliant). Bill last month was $2.30 (I paid $43.00 -- I'm on average billing, tho my new Leaf SV will make that go up, unless I add more solar.)

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Solar.

I have 2.8kW DC (keeps 25kWh of batteries topped up and feeds back to the grid) and 2.1kW ACPV (AC solar modules).

That's how I fight the utility (Reliant). Bill last month was $2.30 (I paid $43.00 -- I'm on average billing, tho my new Leaf SV will make that go up, unless I add more solar.)

I really want solar. In fact, I had the local Solar company give me a firm bid on a 20 year lease plan. I'll be darned if they did not quote me a price HIGHER than I am now paying on my TOU rate plan (including the Leaf usage). In most cases, these companies walk into a sales prospect offering to cut their electric bills by 30%, or more. In my case, the TOU plan (coupled with my timing interventions) results in a overall price that they can't beat. So, no solar for now.