danrjones
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Indeed. One of those cosmic mysteries, like whether gravity has a particle or not.
The 40KWH Battery Topic
- Thread starter LeftieBiker
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Indeed. One of those cosmic mysteries, like whether gravity has a particle or not.
danrjones said:
The real mystery to me - is the gravitational constant really constant, or does it "wave" according to the nearest "big bang" of a (relatively) nearby universe? But that just shows how little I know about it - and likely does not have much affect on the subject at hand.
HerdingElectrons
Well-known member
2018 40Kwh with 26,755 miles & the SOH is 91.18%
On April 11 it was 92.13% at 25,204 miles
On March 5 it was 92.18% at 24,290 miles
On Feb 2 it was 92.93% at 22,900 miles
On Nov 19 it was 93.07% at 19,807 miles
On April 11 it was 92.13% at 25,204 miles
On March 5 it was 92.18% at 24,290 miles
On Feb 2 it was 92.93% at 22,900 miles
On Nov 19 it was 93.07% at 19,807 miles
A
Anonymous
Guest
More and more, I see Porsche's choice to market the Taycan at a range corresponding to ~60% pack health as genius. Buyers are guaranteed to be pleasantly surprised by the range when new and won't be disappointed by the range even when the car is 10-15 years old.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
That is a great point, and they do appear to be rewarded in good sales.
evtifosi
Well-known member
Just picked up a used 2018 - my first reading shows pretty similar numbers to what others are reporting.
Original Purchase Date 5/4/18
My Purchase Date 6/10/20
Odo: 25,700
SOH: 90.2%
HX: 115.4%
AHr: 104.93
This car lived in the East Bay in Hayward actually. It is now in cooler Santa Cruz if that ever matter...
Original Purchase Date 5/4/18
My Purchase Date 6/10/20
Odo: 25,700
SOH: 90.2%
HX: 115.4%
AHr: 104.93
This car lived in the East Bay in Hayward actually. It is now in cooler Santa Cruz if that ever matter...
cwerdna
Well-known member
It likely does. Yeah, Santa Cruz is a much cooler climate and should yield pretty good results in terms of calendar losses.evtifosi said:
jmurtagh13
Active member
27 months 19,700 miles SOH down to 91.99, but for the last year or so the battery loss has been very small.
Made it through last summer with little Battery degradation, let's see what the 2020 summer brings.
danrjones
Well-known member
danrjones said:
My stats as of this AM:
SOH: 89.88%
AMPHr: 103.76
HX: 108.8
Mileage: 5925
So my 3 month adjustment took me from 90.03% to 89.88% SOH over about 2 days. Very small compared to prior adjustments.
So this is a good sign. But I have not yet seen it go UP like some have.
I have a long trip to my dealer next Friday (a week from tomorrow) and that should stress the battery a bit and let me see if it has degraded over 6 months ago. Last time I left my house at 100% and arrived at the dealer with ~13% over just about exactly 90 miles. So it will be interesting to see what I arrive at and what the battery check says.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
It does seem that most cars seem to flat line around 90-91% SoH. I wonder if that was part of the rationale for setting the first battery bar at 15% as the first ~7.5% is the BMS bringing up the buffer. The second ~7.5% is the degradation.
cwerdna
Well-known member
It'll be interesting to see when danrjones loses a bar. Seems like his part of CA is pretty hot, judging by Google search for ridgecrest weather and ridgecrest average temperatures.
nightleaf
Member
My leaf likes to lose SOH numbers just sitting in the garage...
Feb 13, 2020 - Km; 42,114 Ahr; 104.99 SOH; 90.95
Mar 18, 2020 - Km; 43,953 Ahr; 103.00 SOH; 89.22
Apr 16, 2020 - Km; 44,167 Ahr; 102.97 SOH; 89.20
May 03, 2020 - Km; 44,322 Ahr; 102.96 SOH; 89.19
May 09, 2020 - Km; 44,365 Ahr; 102.95 SOH; 89.18
May 24, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.61 SOH; 88.89
May 31, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.60 SOH; 88.88
Jun 08, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.59 SOH; 88.87
Jun 14, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.58 SOH; 88.86
Feb 13, 2020 - Km; 42,114 Ahr; 104.99 SOH; 90.95
Mar 18, 2020 - Km; 43,953 Ahr; 103.00 SOH; 89.22
Apr 16, 2020 - Km; 44,167 Ahr; 102.97 SOH; 89.20
May 03, 2020 - Km; 44,322 Ahr; 102.96 SOH; 89.19
May 09, 2020 - Km; 44,365 Ahr; 102.95 SOH; 89.18
May 24, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.61 SOH; 88.89
May 31, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.60 SOH; 88.88
Jun 08, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.59 SOH; 88.87
Jun 14, 2020 - Km; 44,389 Ahr; 102.58 SOH; 88.86
danrjones
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
I'm hoping not to loose one but I certainly won't keep it a secret. Some here feel heat doesn't matter anyway. Parts of Phienix are hotter than us but that's about it. Gets toasty here. And others have had their SOH go up.
I have my annual battery check Friday. That involves a long drive and a full dc fast charge to get home. I'm curious to see how much battery it takes compared to 6 months ago.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Has anyone seen (link would be helpful) a 40 battery lose a bar yet? I don't know of any yet.
Certainly in 2011-12 cars, by late year 2 (so 2013) we had many cars losing bars. For the 2013 model year by 2015-2016 we started getting cases.
Certainly in 2011-12 cars, by late year 2 (so 2013) we had many cars losing bars. For the 2013 model year by 2015-2016 we started getting cases.
danrjones
Well-known member
I just got back from my dealer and my battery check and a few other items. Just about 92 freeway miles each way.
I had been hoping to also use it as a check on my actual degradation against ABRP but for whatever reason it did not match up very well this time.
As to the dealer visit -> Battery check said "Very high and good" for both of the two scores, as well as full health bars. They rotated my tires. The ordered a bracket under warranty to adjust my bumper. I complained about Fast Charge speeds (Rapid gate) just as I did last time and asked for a software BMS update, and they said there were no BMS codes present and blamed the fact it charged slower on "my aftermarket OBD2 dongle" somehow interfering with DC Fast charge speeds - and they completely ignored the fact the battery was hot. So I'll have to complain again next visit but remember to remove the dongle. The whole experience took 4.5 hours. My appointment was at 8:45 and when I gave him the keys he said it would take all day. I told him we were waiting and he said there were twenty others in front of us first, but he would go as fast as he could. I think this falls under a Seinfeld example of they know how to take an appointment but not keep an appointment. (I think it was reservation but close enough example). The only good side of this whole thing was my bill, $20. They did not charge for the battery test. Still, this particular Nissan dealer I cannot recommend.
As to the battery degradation and my drive, maybe some interesting data there?
So this AM I had my car ready for the drive, charged up to 100% on the dash. LeafSpy had me at 99.1% and 403.70 V. SOH 89.85%, Ahr 103.72, Hx 108.82, and battery Temp at 92.2 F max. Arrived at the dealer with the Dash saying 19% and LeafSpy readings of 29.5% with Temp at 104.7 F max. Car said I averaged 3.5 miles / kWhr, which seems decent at 70 mphr. Charged for 37 minutes at a Honda dealer next door for a total of 15.97 kWh before my appointment. My starting rate was 27 kW, so way below 50, and it was around 20 kW when I unplugged. I unplugged with a LeafSpy reading of 72.5% and battery temp max of 120.5 F. Practically 5 hours later after Nissan farted around.... temps were at 115.3 F max. Charged some more while getting a late lunch for 20 minutes and added 7.51 kWh. LeafSpy after that charge was at 87.9% with temps at 118.9 F max. Drove home part way and tested an EA charger for 10 minutes. Did not check LeafSpy after that but I know EA says I charged 3.93 kWh and I noted the car would only take 19 kW. Got home and my final trip LeafSpy readings were 32.1% with an AHr of 103.71, SOH of 89.84%, 345.23V, Hx of 108.64%, and Temp of 123.3 F max.
So I'm curious if anyone has anything this data means to them? It did not really match ABRP either direction so degradation is difficult to access. I'm going back through my phone to find the data from my trip 6 months ago, but I recall arriving at thee dealer with LOWER SOC by about 5% (14% on dash versus 19% this time), so that one piece of data is opposite expected, and maybe does not tell me much about degradation. Who knows what was different. HX appears to actually have dropped during the day.
Two things I do know from today is that the battery was hot and kept getting hotter. And my Nissan has lousy service.
I had been hoping to also use it as a check on my actual degradation against ABRP but for whatever reason it did not match up very well this time.
As to the dealer visit -> Battery check said "Very high and good" for both of the two scores, as well as full health bars. They rotated my tires. The ordered a bracket under warranty to adjust my bumper. I complained about Fast Charge speeds (Rapid gate) just as I did last time and asked for a software BMS update, and they said there were no BMS codes present and blamed the fact it charged slower on "my aftermarket OBD2 dongle" somehow interfering with DC Fast charge speeds - and they completely ignored the fact the battery was hot. So I'll have to complain again next visit but remember to remove the dongle. The whole experience took 4.5 hours. My appointment was at 8:45 and when I gave him the keys he said it would take all day. I told him we were waiting and he said there were twenty others in front of us first, but he would go as fast as he could. I think this falls under a Seinfeld example of they know how to take an appointment but not keep an appointment. (I think it was reservation but close enough example). The only good side of this whole thing was my bill, $20. They did not charge for the battery test. Still, this particular Nissan dealer I cannot recommend.
As to the battery degradation and my drive, maybe some interesting data there?
So this AM I had my car ready for the drive, charged up to 100% on the dash. LeafSpy had me at 99.1% and 403.70 V. SOH 89.85%, Ahr 103.72, Hx 108.82, and battery Temp at 92.2 F max. Arrived at the dealer with the Dash saying 19% and LeafSpy readings of 29.5% with Temp at 104.7 F max. Car said I averaged 3.5 miles / kWhr, which seems decent at 70 mphr. Charged for 37 minutes at a Honda dealer next door for a total of 15.97 kWh before my appointment. My starting rate was 27 kW, so way below 50, and it was around 20 kW when I unplugged. I unplugged with a LeafSpy reading of 72.5% and battery temp max of 120.5 F. Practically 5 hours later after Nissan farted around.... temps were at 115.3 F max. Charged some more while getting a late lunch for 20 minutes and added 7.51 kWh. LeafSpy after that charge was at 87.9% with temps at 118.9 F max. Drove home part way and tested an EA charger for 10 minutes. Did not check LeafSpy after that but I know EA says I charged 3.93 kWh and I noted the car would only take 19 kW. Got home and my final trip LeafSpy readings were 32.1% with an AHr of 103.71, SOH of 89.84%, 345.23V, Hx of 108.64%, and Temp of 123.3 F max.
So I'm curious if anyone has anything this data means to them? It did not really match ABRP either direction so degradation is difficult to access. I'm going back through my phone to find the data from my trip 6 months ago, but I recall arriving at thee dealer with LOWER SOC by about 5% (14% on dash versus 19% this time), so that one piece of data is opposite expected, and maybe does not tell me much about degradation. Who knows what was different. HX appears to actually have dropped during the day.
Two things I do know from today is that the battery was hot and kept getting hotter. And my Nissan has lousy service.
danrjones
Well-known member
So after my last 3 month adjustment - which was tiny - the daily or semi-daily adjustment have not slowed down, if anything, they have sped up. This AM I was at:
AHr: 103.57
SOH: 89.72%
Hx: 108.69%
Just under 6400 miles.
I attempted to do a actual capacity test last week. I charged to full, then attempted to drain the battery down as low as I could go and see how many in-town miles I would get. But I needed my car for work so I had to charge it back up a bit last night. I got down to 5% yesterday - which in LeafSpy was still about 15%, a lot of battery seemed to be hidden. I was at 126 miles. I'd have to add up my efficiency for every drive but I would guess I was around 4 to 4.2 miles per kWh overall for the period. That means I was able to use somewhere around 30 to 31 kWh worth of battery.
Some quick math: 126/4.1 = 30.73 kWh. So this is what I used.
So if I was really at 5%, then its total captivity should be 30.73/0.95 = 32.3 kWh usable.
But if leaf spy is right, then usable (?) is 30.72/0.85 = 36.14 kWh
So does leafspy show actual usable capacity or does that 15% include the reserve Nissan will not let you use?
I thought I had heard the usable portion of the pack was around 36 of 40? If that's correct, then my capacity COULD (?) be 32.3/36 = 0.89 x 100 = 89% or 11% loss. On the other hand, if that 15% was actually all usable, than my degradation is basically zero.
Oddly the 89% calculated almost exactly matches leafspy SOH.
Thoughts? Comments? Math Errors?
AHr: 103.57
SOH: 89.72%
Hx: 108.69%
Just under 6400 miles.
I attempted to do a actual capacity test last week. I charged to full, then attempted to drain the battery down as low as I could go and see how many in-town miles I would get. But I needed my car for work so I had to charge it back up a bit last night. I got down to 5% yesterday - which in LeafSpy was still about 15%, a lot of battery seemed to be hidden. I was at 126 miles. I'd have to add up my efficiency for every drive but I would guess I was around 4 to 4.2 miles per kWh overall for the period. That means I was able to use somewhere around 30 to 31 kWh worth of battery.
Some quick math: 126/4.1 = 30.73 kWh. So this is what I used.
So if I was really at 5%, then its total captivity should be 30.73/0.95 = 32.3 kWh usable.
But if leaf spy is right, then usable (?) is 30.72/0.85 = 36.14 kWh
So does leafspy show actual usable capacity or does that 15% include the reserve Nissan will not let you use?
I thought I had heard the usable portion of the pack was around 36 of 40? If that's correct, then my capacity COULD (?) be 32.3/36 = 0.89 x 100 = 89% or 11% loss. On the other hand, if that 15% was actually all usable, than my degradation is basically zero.
Oddly the 89% calculated almost exactly matches leafspy SOH.
Thoughts? Comments? Math Errors?
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Personally, I find LeafSpy to be most accurate in terms of what the car has in the tank.
I have driven many miles with the GOM at 0 or --- and 1%. Last summer I would not have had the confidence to do the 240 mile distance on a charge (on the highway) without the confidence of knowing I had that additional reserve.
I have driven many miles with the GOM at 0 or --- and 1%. Last summer I would not have had the confidence to do the 240 mile distance on a charge (on the highway) without the confidence of knowing I had that additional reserve.
danrjones
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Well, for what its worth, I found on the WWW a leafspy screenshot of an empty 40 pack and it showed a SOC of right around 10%.
So if that is true, that means I was at 5% usable per leaf spy, and my math would be correct. Depending on my exact efficiency puts the degradation at 11% plus or minus.
Does anyone have a leafpy reading for SOC at zero usable range?
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
the ongoing debate on the 62kW discussion is whether the SOH shown is true battery capacity, or capacity given to the user. There are these quarterly updates on the BMS which systematically cut down the SOH by a percent or two every quarter after 6 months until the car is in the low 90%s. It then goes into flat to gradual decline.
One belief is that Nissan starts with a 3-4% buffer on the battery (say 2-2.5kW) then after 6 month expands that to about 10% to provide extra buffering on the battery. 2 observations seem to back up the theory. 1. We haven't seen any 2018 Leaf's lose a bar yet. You think you would see a couple ravaged batteries by now. 2. We have seen SOH go up on some cars after the quarterly BMS update (in different seasons, so outside temp doesn't seem to matter). We also have the outlier case of a 2019 Arizona battery, with a near 100F resting temperature with reasonable miles, and a higher SOH than those of use in more northern climates keeping our cars at ideal conditions nearly year round.
So long story short we are clueless, except that the BMS is doing more tinkering around than in previous generations of the car.
One belief is that Nissan starts with a 3-4% buffer on the battery (say 2-2.5kW) then after 6 month expands that to about 10% to provide extra buffering on the battery. 2 observations seem to back up the theory. 1. We haven't seen any 2018 Leaf's lose a bar yet. You think you would see a couple ravaged batteries by now. 2. We have seen SOH go up on some cars after the quarterly BMS update (in different seasons, so outside temp doesn't seem to matter). We also have the outlier case of a 2019 Arizona battery, with a near 100F resting temperature with reasonable miles, and a higher SOH than those of use in more northern climates keeping our cars at ideal conditions nearly year round.
So long story short we are clueless, except that the BMS is doing more tinkering around than in previous generations of the car.
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