Surviving on quick charge alone?

[pizzahut99]

Hi guys,

1. Is it possible to own a Leaf and charge it using only the quick charger?
2. How reliable is the quick charge process?
3. 80% in thirty minutes each and every time?
4. 80% is approximately 120km range?

I know these are really odd questions but let me tell you a bit about my situation ...
I am driving a hybrid but what I really want is an EV alwayssss.

I live in Hong Kong and it is impossible to get power hooked up to my garage.
But at every mall I go there are level 2 chargers everywhere (220v 13amp 2.8kwh).

So if I buy a Leaf ... I would have to survive by charging it at the various malls ...
1 hour here, 1 hour there ... while buying groceries, while eating dinner ...

On Hong Kong Island, there is only one quick charger.
Which is 10km away from my home.

I drive about 250km per week.
My lifestyle, I don't drive to work ...
but I drive almost every evening to go jogging, short jaunts around town 30km max ...
In the future that would be include driving a child to school.

To me buying a Leaf isn't about saving money.
There are no tax incentives in Hong Kong.
My gas cost is HK$0.80/km
I worked out the Leaf will cost me HK$0.20/km
But I am all for the future ... and I believe EVs are the future ...

Hence my post here ... I really need your advice ....

 

[coqui]

Yes, I would say you are ok.
250km/week divided by 7 days per week = 35km per day. If you meant 250km per WORK week, or 50km per day, you can get by with only one charge per day, maybe one charge per 2 days. The manual only warns against multiple Quick Charges per day.
I cannot answer your question about reliability, that depends on the manufacturer.
Do you have the option of running an extension cord to the Leaf and using the Level 1 charger?

 

[adric22]

I live in Hong Kong and it is impossible to get power hooked up to my garage.
But at every mall I go there are level 2 chargers everywhere (220v 13amp 2.8kwh).

IT sounds like the wording of your subject line is misleading. It sounds like you would be using a combination of quick charge and L2 charging. Maybe a better way to word the subject line would be "Surviving on public charging alone?"

I suppose that is up to you. I seriously doubt there are many people who drive a Leaf and have to rely on public chargers right now. If there were more of them, then I think it would be easy.

 

[davewill]

Sounds workable to me. If you can charge at all your destinations, and top up with a Quick Charge when needed you should be fine. 120km seems a little optimistic, though, for an 80% charge. I'd say 100km would be a more reasonable expectation. No worries on the reliability of the Quick Charge. As far as the time, yes, 30 minutes should be reliable and you can get up to 100% if you are willing to wait up to an hour.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

You sound very dedicated. I had to crank it out in miles. you live 6.25 miles from L3/QC and drive about 156 miles a week, or about 22 miles a day. if you apply reasonable conservative driving techniques, you can get between 50 and 60 miles (80-96 kilometers) per 80% charge. You'd probably be charging about every 3rd day so as not to push it to the edge... it's not worth stressing out about the range, better to leave a little extra in the "tank" for comfort.

Considering your level of enthusiasm for the technology, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to have to drive out of the way a bit every couple of days to "fill up". I suspect as L3/QC becomes more available, we will see more folks rely entirely on it. Certainly your level of charging frequency is well within the "safe" limits of quick charging as set by Nissan. If you charged to 100% and then did your errands, you could go a little longer between charges still, without leaving the battery at a high SOC for long periods.

How flexible one is willing to be to accommodate new technology is a very personal decision, but from the sounds of it, this will be quite doable for you. I can say that after about 22,000 kilometers of driving this car, it is definitely worth going a little out of the way to experience the pleasure of being off gas and enjoy superior driving performance. It really is an amazing vehicle!

 

[Bassman]

I lived in Hong Kong for 3.5 years from 2000 to 2004. Since everything is roughly 220 volt, you shouldn't have a problem with the included EVSE, as it should be set for the standard voltage there. Where are you in Hong Kong, the Island side or the Kowloon side? I lived in SaiKung in the New Territories. A LEAF would have been fun to drive there if they had been available at that time. I had a company supplied Toyota Land Cruiser when I was there. Very expensive to operate due to the gasoline prices. You'll love the operating cost of the LEAF. It'll be waayyy cheaper than gasoline.

 

[pizzahut99]

Thanks for all your replies here ... I have arranged a test drive tomorrow.

So I guess between charges, I have about 100km range.

I live on Hong Kong Island, near Robinson Rd.
Its mostly trips to Wan Chai, Stanley ... Admiralty ...

Over the weekend it is to Saikung for a drink ... ))
Or the New Territories for food ....

 

[LEAFfan]

The manual only warns against multiple Quick Charges per day.

The manual is being changed to reflect the fact that multiple QCs are ok. I knew this a long time ago when the techs that actually tested these battery packs here in AZ years ago, found that up to six QCs a day will do no more harm than L1 or L2 charging.

 

[pizzahut99]

Alright I had test drive yesterday.
Dealer was waiting with the Leaf at Admiralty.

At the start, it had a range of 68km ... 7-8 bars.
First thing I did, I drove a carefully selected route through some busy street, then a bit of highway, then a bit of hill climbing
then to the quick charge station.

Length of journey according to Google Map was 13km.
Here is the exact path I took.
http://g.co/maps/kfwtc
The leaf was driven in a mild manner, the way you would to get the best out of a Prius.
I do get very good milage out of my hybrid.
Leaf was in ECO mode during the entire journey.

There was plenty of torque going up Smithfield Road.
It felt I was driving a 2500cc?
But range just depleted extremely quickly ... as I went up Smithfield.
Range also dropped quickly for the highway section on Connaught Road West 4.
For the rest of the journey ... range was consumed slowly.
When I arrived at the EVSE, there was around 35ish km something.
It consumed a lot more energy than I thought.

Once there, I tried the quick charger for 5 mins exact.
When I drove, it had 80km range again.

This range thing is just go up and down ....
based upon the momentary road conditions ....
I quickly learn that what really matter was the battery bars instead.

Anyway ... its doable I think ... the Leaf is very well made.
So quiet and gives quite a bit of torque without any engine sound.


A few issues ...
(1) Dealer say warranty for the battery is 3 years or 100,000km whichever happens first.
(2) Service is about HK$2,000 ... shouldn't it be cheaper? With no motor oil, no air filter ... no nothing to change ... except a bunch of diagnostic test ...
(3) Carwings and GPS is not working in the car.
(4) Battery warranty can be extended for about $15,000 for another 2 years.
(5) I asked how much it would cost to swap out a defective module .. he doesn't know... well that was expected.

With only 3 years warranty ... why?
Dealer said I am the first walk in customer to test the Leaf on Hong Kong Island.

I need some time to think about this ...

 

[Ingineer]

I would see if there is some way you can run a cord to your garage or find some place you can park nearby that has an available outlet. Maybe even make a deal with a neighbor?

We could sell you a portable EVSE (Charge Cord) with any length cable for any outlet type. You should be able to charge at least at 8A in HK which would mean almost 2kW. (~10 hours if fully depleted) For your normal short drives, you would only need an hour or two at 2kW.

-Phil

 

[TonyWilliams]

This range thing is just go up and down ....
based upon the momentary road conditions ....
I quickly learn that what really matter was the battery bars

Download the range chart at http://www.LoveMyLEAF.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The same download has a metric version.

 

[lpickup]

A few issues ...
(1) Dealer say warranty for the battery is 3 years or 100,000km whichever happens first.

Here in the US the warranty is 8 years/100K miles. Maybe it's different in HK, but I wouldn't expect it to be THAT different. Ask to see the warranty and read it yourself.

(2) Service is about HK$2,000 ... shouldn't it be cheaper? With no motor oil, no air filter ... no nothing to change ... except a bunch of diagnostic test ...

Yes it should. And it's common for dealers to want to charge you for all kinds of things. Even the recommended normal service of the LEAF specifies a brake fluid flush every two years which is probably the most expensive maintenance item and one that I've rarely done at all on my gas vehicles. I can't imagine the LEAF is going to require that much servicing on the brakes. Be that as it may, that's still only works out to about $150/year here in the US if done every two years. Again, ask the dealer for a breakdown of exactly what those charges should be, which ones are strictly REQUIRED (they may be trying to push a heavy-user schedule on you) and compare those costs to that of a typical gas vehicle. If there is a discrepancy, ask them about it. Your intuition is correct. It SHOULD be much cheaper.

(3) Carwings and GPS is not working in the car.

It's not surprising that Carwings is not working. You have to attach that to your own Carwings account. As for GPS, I don't know. Maybe the car was imported from somewhere else and doesn't have maps for Hong Kong? I would definitely ask the dealer about that.

(4) Battery warranty can be extended for about $15,000 for another 2 years.

I'm starting to think you need to deal with a more reputable dealer. Again, things may be different in HK, but here in the US there is no such program. Are you sure they weren't talking about an extended warranty program that covers more of the car itself? That is pretty typical here in the US, but it doesn't have anything to do with the battery.

(5) I asked how much it would cost to swap out a defective module .. he doesn't know... well that was expected.

The number I've heard is US$650. However I would also expect that to be covered by the battery warranty for the first 8 years/100K miles and by then I would expect the price to be different.

With only 3 years warranty ... why?

That's exactly the question you need to ask!

Dealer said I am the first walk in customer to test the Leaf on Hong Kong Island.

Which probably means they don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Is there another dealer that actually paid attention to whatever training they received on the LEAF?

 

[pizzahut99]

Thanks Ipickup.

I have gone thru the entire catalogue, Nissan's HK website, the price list.
Strangely there is no mention of the length of period for the battery warranty.
Also have pestered the sales guy again ...
There is a lack of transparacy here ... no written anywhere.
Or have I missed it?

Sales verbally confirmed 3 years warranty for the battery in Hong Kong.
I hv also gone thru Japan website, Nissan offers 5 years warranty for Leaf's in Japan.

There is only one official distributor in here with several dealership in Hong Kong.
So I will keep pushing the distributor to extend the warranty to match Japan.

The Leaf, I am fine with, its just the warranty that the problem.
Although I do believe the Leaf battery will be fine for the next five years but just in case.


Also the steering wheel ... I could not adjust the height.
And the seat ... I cant adjust the height either .... odd ...
The light interior could be hard to keep clean?
but otherwise the Leaf is well put together.

 

[lpickup]

Also the steering wheel ... I could not adjust the height.
And the seat ... I cant adjust the height either .... odd ...

Again, there are probably differences in different countries, but my LEAF has both an adjustable steering wheel and adjustable height seat, although I will say the seat height adjustment (it's a knob on the side of the seat) is pretty kludgy. It seems like it just pushes something up slightly in the middle of the seat. I don't think it gives a very large adjustment.

 

[garygid]

The steering wheel does not pull out, but does have an "up and down" adjustment.

Easiest to adjust the driver seat with nobody sitting in it.

There is no L1 (or "L3") in Japan, just a lower-voltage L2 and QC. Perhaps Hong Kong is the same?

 

[Ingineer]

My steering wheel adjusts quite a bit up and down, but does NOT adjust in-out at all. (Telescope) On the US-Spec Leaf there is a release lever on the left just below the turn-signal stalk, when swung down the entire column will pull up or down. Raising the lever to it's original top position will lock the column in whatever position you desire.

I suggest a RTFM is in order.

-Phil

 

[garygid]

My mistake, I fixed my post.
Thanks Phil

 

[waidy]

pizzahut99: I am currently in Hong Kong, and would like to get a LEAF. I live in Hong Lok Yuen in Tai Po (western style house with 2 car garage, front/back/side yards). I already have 240V outlets in the garage. How much does a LEAF cost in Hong Kong? I presume you didn't have to pay FRT (First Registration Tax). What is your yearly registration cost? Since there is no engine and registration tax is based on the size of the engine in cc, does Hong Kong Transportation Department invented a "flat" fee of EVs?

 

[waidy]

pizzahut99: I am currently in Hong Kong, and would like to get a LEAF. I live in Hong Lok Yuen in Tai Po (western style house with 2 car garage, front/back/side yards). I already have 240V outlets in the garage. How much does a LEAF cost in Hong Kong? I presume you didn't have to pay FRT (First Registration Tax). What is your yearly registration cost? Since there is no engine and registration tax is based on the size of the engine in cc, does Hong Kong Transportation Department invented a "flat" fee of EVs?

pizzahut99: The last couple of months (I was here since August) was really really hot. Did you have any capacity bar lost? What is the highest # of temperature bar?

 

[waidy]

I live in Hong Kong and it is impossible to get power hooked up to my garage.
But at every mall I go there are level 2 chargers everywhere (220v 13amp 2.8kwh).

To me buying a Leaf isn't about saving money.
There are no tax incentives in Hong Kong.
My gas cost is HK$0.80/km
I worked out the Leaf will cost me HK$0.20/km
But I am all for the future ... and I believe EVs are the future ...

Hence my post here ... I really need your advice ....

You may use your regular 240V 13amp outlet in your garage. No need to install charging station in your garage. There is an incentive for EV purchase in Hong Kong. There is no FRT (First Registration Tax). The incentive is valid until March 31, 2014. I was talking to EPD (Environmental Protection Department) about extending it. The Under-Secretary told me that it is on the Hong Kong Treasury's hand for extension. However, she feels that it will likely be extended. You pay what the manufacture's list price or whatever price you negotiate with the Nissan Dealer. Sadly, the 2012 LEAF costs HKD$450,000 which more than twice as much as in U.S. They don't sell 2013 model because 2013 model LEAF are being made in Tenn, USA.

Cost/km is pending on the gas price ($/liter) and your driving style (km/liter). For example, if the cost of the gas is $18/Liter and you drive 12 km/Liter && assuming you drive 6.5km/kWh (which is the average EV driver's driving efficiency) and the cost of kWh is HK is HKD$1/kWh, then by calculation, the cost of driving ICE is HKD$1.50/km and the cost of driving EV is HKD$0.15/km.