Sudden loss of range, major impact on usability

[SalisburySam]

Last Sunday, I made a day trip to a destination 24 miles from my home. I almost didn't make it back and come turtling home. I have a dealer appointment later this week, but I'm interested if others have ideas/suggestions.

My 2012 LEAF has about 3100 miles, 10 months old, shows 12 bars of capacity, has only been charged using L2 in home, and mostly charged to 80%. I have charged to 100% only 4 times. I drive in ECO mode only. Temperature on travel day about 65F, battery temperature showed 6 bars. The round-trip was 16 miles on 2-lane country roads (avg. 40mph) and 32 miles on 4-lane divided highway (65mph), clear, dry weather, very little wind. The trip was uphill about 200 ft over the 24 miles, and the reverse coming back. I charged the car to 100% the night before and the GOM was reading 105 as I left my driveway. All heat switches (seat, steering, rear seat) were turned off. Climate control was on and set to 68F. Seems like the 48-mile trip should have been easy with range to spare.

After leaving and getting less than 2 miles from home, the GOM went to 83. That surprised me as I usually get that number after only an 80% charge, not the 100% of the night before. Also surprising was how quickly it went from 105 to 83 in under 2 miles. I continued the trip and ended at destination with 48 miles on GOM. Apparently in GOM math, 105 initial range - 24 miles = 48 remaining range. The return trip was eating up range quickly as well, and about half way back I turned off the climate control, adding only +1 to the GOM. I got home with 8 GOM miles left. Final math: 105 initial range - 48 miles = 8 remaining range. The (excellent Mike Heasley) "LEAF Link" application plotted a route and gave me instructions that as long as I exceeded 1.7 mi/kWh, I'd be fine. I managed to keep in the 3.1 mi/kWh range for most of the drive.

But wait, there's more. For grins and giggles I charged the LEAF to 100% again the next night. This time, the GOM only went to 83 miles, again with 12 capacity bars showing.

The phrase "range anxiety" doesn't begin to describe my feelings. Any thoughts most welcome!

 

[adric22]

Well, if your trip of 48 miles (mostly highway) was done on 80% charge, I'd say your experience was normal. But since you say it was 100%, not sure.

 

[grommet]

If you had climate control on, and it was heating... that's a serious drain on power. (This will be improved in 2013.)

First off, ignore the GOM range. It's based on recent efficiency behavior, and can't predict the future or your environment. You may want to review Tony's range charts: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[EVDrive]

Seems pretty standard for 3.1kwh driving efficiency. I would suggest being more ginger with the pedals and try to get up to 3.5-3.8kwh. Then you wouldn't have to worry. Try going 60mph on the freeway. It is not you with the GOM... It usually tells me I can go over 100 miles and I've never gone more than 80 miles on a charge while hypermiling.

 

[Ingineer]

What was the ambient temperature?

You indicated that you had the climate control on and set for 68. If ambient was at or below this, I suspect your heater sucked up your range.

Unfortunately, This is a common problem because of the poorly designed HVAC control system.

I have developed an Energy-Saving HVAC module upgrade to solve this problem.

-Phil

 

[DeaneG]

If you last drove on surface streets, charged to 100%, and then jumped on the freeway, the GOM estimated range should drop quite a bit in the first few minutes of driving to reflect the difference between 40mph and 65mph travel.

60 miles is really not far off the "freeway range" of the leaf at 100% charge, especially as Phil mentioned if the heater is doing much work.

 

[LEAFfan]

Last Sunday, I made a day trip to a destination 24 miles from my home. I almost didn't make it back and come turtling home.

If you had 8 miles left on the GOM, then you weren't even close to Turtle. You would have to lose ALL your fuel bars and have --- on your GOM before you would reach Turtle. After VLBW, you should be able to get at least 6 miles more before Turtle depending on your speed and driving techniques.

 

[Reddy]

I did about 65 mi (similar speeds) at temps below 40 F, starting with 11 bars. I got back at LBW (GOM just under 8 mi). Yes, if you did city driving (<40 mph) the night before and then switched to 65 mph highway (uphill and into the wind), you will definitely see the GOM drop precipitously. You likely had 10-20 mi left in the battery (depending on speed), so add that to you're real 48 mi driven and you get 58-68 mi actual. I suppose that's probable if you have 10% battery degradation or really drove closer to 70 mph (especially due to even a slight head wind).

Reddy

 

[planet4ever]

The phrase "range anxiety" doesn't begin to describe my feelings. Any thoughts most welcome!

As others have said, the GOM is totally unreliable. The solution for your range anxiety is to cover it up. Watch the bars instead; that is your "gas gauge". Remember that there are really 13 bars, with the bottom one hidden.

And, yes, with the drive you described you should be able to get better than 3.1 m/kWh. ECO tries to help you be gentle on the accelerator pedal, but you have to do your part, too. And avoid the brake pedal, or use it lightly.

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

The things that matter are not the GOM. This happens over and over with folks trying to make rational range predictions on the GOM; NONE OF THE FOLLOWING DATA IS BASED ON THE GOM (that seems to be the hardest thing to get across when discussing real world driving miles).

21kWh available with a new 70F battery * 3.1 miles per kWh = 65 miles of range with a 100% charge.

With only 80% charging, that would be 52 miles range. You don't have to factor the heater with "miles per kWh", as it's factored in. The folks who think you should just "drive better" have no idea how cold it was, and how much the energy hog heater is using. 3.1 miles/kWh might be entirely normal (I've done 2.9 here in San Diego in cold and heavy rain, where 3.9 is normal for me).

The only other major variable is temperature, as that reduces the capacity of the battery. Since you have fairly low economy, but seem like a careful driver, I'll bet that heater was zapping your economy to 3.1 and thus your range as stated above.

My rule of thumb is 10% battery loss of capacity per 40F loss below 70F, therefore you could probably knock another 10% off of 65 miles (100% charge) and 52 miles (80% charge), for 58.5 miles and 46.8 miles.

One more piece of the puzzle. This chemistry battery will lose 10% of capacity (plus or minus 5%) within the first year or so (and then 2-5% per year after that in moderate climates). My black 2012 lost 10% capacity within 4 months of manufacture in April 2012. My 2011 took about a year. You probably don't have this issue yet, but you will.

To get your economy higher, I suggest only using the heater if you ABSOLUTELY have to. Seat and steering wheel heat, and just enough defrost to help you see. Ingineer's product above will help with that.

Check out the Apple app "LEAF Energy" that is based on the range chart linked in my signature line.

 

[EVDrive]

As Tony and Phil said. A big factor is likely your heater which is a gen 1 inconvenience with the Leaf. Definately use your seat heaters if you can. I do and don't notice a drop in range when using them as they use a few hundred watts/hr vs the heater which uses around 3kwh. Myself and a bunch of other 2011 owners had to install our own seat heaters to overcome the heater energy draw issue.

 

[kubel]

Solution: Don't sacrifice comfort for range. Opportunity charge. Don't forget about heated seats and heated steering wheel. Preheat. I'm usually able to be comfortable wearing just my fleece with heated seat on low and heated steering wheel on down to around 45F. Anything less and I'll turn on the climate control.

My daily routine:
Charge to 80% with climate control timer set to just before I leave.
Drive 30 miles to work at 55MPH. Usually don't have to use heater since the cabin is preheated.
Plug in at work for 4 hours behind our warehouse on 120V.
Take lunch, then park near the entrance and leave it unplugged.
Drive 30 miles to home at 55MPH, using heater if it's below 45F.
Get home without reaching LBW.

I'm totally comfortable the entire commute. As it gets colder and capacity drops and heater reduces efficiency even more through the winter when it's into the teens or less, I'll probably need to charge all 8 hours at work or will need to charge to 100%. But for now, just 4 hours of trickle charging at work gets me enough range and heat to get home with an 80% initial charge.

 

[Herm]

You can also install a battery warmer (magnetic stick on) usually used as an oil pan heater in conventional cars.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You can also install a battery warmer (magnetic stick on) usually used as an oil pan heater in conventional cars.

DANGER, DANGER WILL ROBINSON !!!!

Those things are TOO hot normally. It needs to be below about 80F-100F (30C-40C).

 

[TonyWilliams]

Solution: Don't sacrifice comfort for range. Opportunity charge. Don't forget about heated seats and heated steering wheel. Preheat. I'm usually able to be comfortable wearing just my fleece with heated seat on low and heated steering wheel on down to around 45F.

And here's the problem with the 2013 heat pump; it works great down to about that temp, then goes to old fashioned resistance heat that we already have!

You won't save energy on a 2013 car in the winter for truly cold weather below about 45F (8C).

 

[SalisburySam]

All,

Thank you for the rapid, thoughtful, and insightful replies. As a forum and LEAF noob, I learned quite a bit from your collective responses. Love the rules-of-thumb range estimates based on bars, and the almost complete disregard for the GOM; but that explains the "G" in GOM.

Extra thanks to Tony for his kWh explanation and excellent tables. Phil too regarding the info and his A/C control panel replacement. I'll be reaching out separately.

What a great forum!

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Solution: Don't sacrifice comfort for range. Opportunity charge. Don't forget about heated seats and heated steering wheel. Preheat. I'm usually able to be comfortable wearing just my fleece with heated seat on low and heated steering wheel on down to around 45F.

And here's the problem with the 2013 heat pump; it works great down to about that temp, then goes to old fashioned resistance heat that we already have!

You won't save energy on a 2013 car in the winter for truly cold weather below about 45F (8C).

If so, I can basically edit this to "you won't save energy on a 2013 car in the winter".

It's finally getting cooler here. Man I love the fall. But anyway, down to about 50 if I'm using any heat at all it's only because the darn thing insists on heating the cabin to 60. I'd say that with the heated steering wheel and seats I certainly will never blast much heat until it gets below 45 like the other fellow mentions. Course, when driving around the family, you know how they are. Heat needs to be cranked

 

[TonyWilliams]

If so, I can basically edit this to "you won't save energy on a 2013 car in the winter".... I certainly will never blast much heat until it gets below 45 like the other fellow mentions. Course, when driving around the family, you know how they are. Heat needs to be cranked

The heat pump will be great in climates that don't really need much of a heater. Where you REALLY need it to extend range, there will be the same old resistance heat.

In other words, expect about 3-5kW draw on that heater in sub freezing temps!

 

[RegGuheert]

Solution: Don't sacrifice comfort for range. Opportunity charge. Don't forget about heated seats and heated steering wheel. Preheat. I'm usually able to be comfortable wearing just my fleece with heated seat on low and heated steering wheel on down to around 45F.

And here's the problem with the 2013 heat pump; it works great down to about that temp, then goes to old fashioned resistance heat that we already have!

You won't save energy on a 2013 car in the winter for truly cold weather below about 45F (8C).

Thanks for the heads-up, Tony! My MY2013 LEAF-lust just dropped precipitously!

It sounds like that fix is mainly for spring and fall and for milder climates. Perhaps I will need to invest in Phil's fan-only solution. (Although it sure would be nice if Nissan fixed that under warranty!)

 

[dgpcolorado]

Solution: Don't sacrifice comfort for range. Opportunity charge. Don't forget about heated seats and heated steering wheel. Preheat. I'm usually able to be comfortable wearing just my fleece with heated seat on low and heated steering wheel on down to around 45F.

And here's the problem with the 2013 heat pump; it works great down to about that temp, then goes to old fashioned resistance heat that we already have!

You won't save energy on a 2013 car in the winter for truly cold weather below about 45F (8C).

If so, I can basically edit this to "you won't save energy on a 2013 car in the winter".

It's finally getting cooler here. Man I love the fall. But anyway, down to about 50 if I'm using any heat at all it's only because the darn thing insists on heating the cabin to 60. I'd say that with the heated steering wheel and seats I certainly will never blast much heat until it gets below 45 like the other fellow mentions. Course, when driving around the family, you know how they are. Heat needs to be cranked

The ability to control the heater is why Phil's CC mod is so nice. And it really is as easy to install as his video suggests. With the CC mod one can actually blow outside air on the windshield with no heater use, should that be enough to defog it. If not, brief use of the AC/heat button will do the trick, especially if the heater loop is already warm from preheating.

With preheating while plugged-in and the steering wheel/seat heaters it is easy to stay comfortable way below 45ºF outside temperature if one is dressed appropriately for cool weather. Especially if the sun is out (but I realize that isn't often the case in some parts of the country).

The important thing is to get control of the cabin heater and until/unless Nissan fixes it on the 2011/2012 models Phil has the solution. Worth every penny.