Space Saver Spare for LEAF

[garsh]

I'd like to be able to jack up a corner of the car, and then place a jack stand at that position so that I can remove the jack. So I was trying to find alternative lift points for the leaf.

The service manual indicates two "garage jack points" for the front & rear of the car: picture. This looks like exactly what I want!

I took a look at the under-car pictures from Underneath the Beast; a Tour of the Dark Side thread. I didn't see any photos with a clear shot of the front lift point, but the drawing for the rear lift point looks nothing like the actual car. The drawing even shows exhaust pipes!

Does anybody know if these front & rear jack points actually exist, and where they are located?

 

[TonyWilliams]

There are lots of huge errors in the manuals. It was all rushed. You can use the underside perimeter body jack points, and under the rear axle should be OK.

The rest of the underside has aerodynamic panels that won't work well with a jack!!!

 

[aqn]

I'd like to be able to jack up a corner of the car, and then place a jack stand at that position so that I can remove the jack. So I was trying to find alternative lift points for the leaf.

The service manual indicates two "garage jack points" for the front & rear of the car: picture. This looks like exactly what I want!

I took a look at the under-car pictures from Underneath the Beast; a Tour of the Dark Side thread. I didn't see any photos with a clear shot of the front lift point, but the drawing for the rear lift point looks nothing like the actual car. The drawing even shows exhaust pipes!

These may be useful to you:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=174116#p174116" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=174658#p174658" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=174690#p174690" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jacking_up_a_LEAF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anybody know if these front & rear jack points actually exist, and where they are located?

I have no idea, but in general, I would recommend being careful about using "garage lift points" or any such similarly termed lift points. It's possible that those points are for use with the kind of shop lift that engages at multiple points. As such, when the car is raised at all those points simultaneously, each point would carry less weight than when the car is being raised at only one of those points. One of my previous cars had those "factory lift points". I tried jacking it up at one of those points once. ONCE!

 

[OrientExpress]

If your intention is to lift the side of your LEAF to rotate tires or to have both tires off of the ground at the same time, start by lifting the car from the front Jack Lifting Point, and jack up the car as far as the jack will allow. This will lift both front and rear wheels off of the ground. Stick a jack stand under the rear Jack Lifting Point, and just leave the jack in place on the front Jack Lifting Point. Now you can safely remove the tires to rotate them or remove them. If you are not comfortable with leaving the jack in place, then place a second jack stand under the the front suspension attachment point.

BTW: there is no harm to be had by just lifting the car from one lifting point. The chassis/body is more than rigid enough to take the stress.

 

[TickTock]

Hi garygid,

The jack points are near each wheel. There are two notches identifying where the jack is to be placed. It is similar to the notches that were on my Toyota camry. I got a jack for a altima and it works okay. (the jack for my toyota also works ) The spare fits in the trunk lying flat on the cargo unit. I have attached pictures in my original email.

Dave

Does the jack from your altima or toyota fit in the jack storage area on the left (with can-o-goop&compressor removed)?

 

[TonyWilliams]

If your intention is to lift the side of your LEAF to rotate tires or to have both tires off of the ground at the same time, start by lifting the car from the front Jack Lifting Point, and jack up the car as far as the jack will allow.

If you're suggesting a singular front jack point (like the Nissan manual suggests), I will suggest that that is really bad advice!!!!

 

[OrientExpress]

If your intention is to lift the side of your LEAF to rotate tires or to have both tires off of the ground at the same time, start by lifting the car from the front Jack Lifting Point, and jack up the car as far as the jack will allow.

If you're suggesting a singular front jack point (like the Nissan manual suggests), I will suggest that that is really bad advice!!!!

No, I am not suggesting, I am recommending it, as that is what those jack points were designed for. But in all fairness to your comment, I would be interested in your concerns.

As you know the Leaf is a unibody design based on the Monocoque construction method, and is extremely strong and rigid. Think of the car as a box on a pallet. The corners of the box are also the mounting points for the front body (the A Pillar) and firewall, and the rear corners are the mounting points for the rear cross structure of the car (the C Pillar). These 4 points are connected by lower pan rails which are in the form of a hollow box and are welded to the floor pan. This is the "Pallet". In the middle between the A & C pillars are the B pillars which tie the roof and floor pan together in the middle and minimize body twist.

Here is a picture of the chassis and the lower mount point as viewed from inside the cabin:

Where the jack points are on the LEAF are the strongest and stiffest points on the car, as this is where all of the torsion loads are distributed through the body.

Another thing about the front jack point under the A Pillar is that that point is pretty close to the CG of the car. You could actually lift the car on both sides with 2 jacks, and with a minimal amount of trim, balance the car on those 2 jack points.

Looking under the car by the front jack points you will also notice that the front suspension mounts for the lower A arms are also very close to this point too. The lower A pillar connection point to the floorpan is also where the crumple zone arms connect to the main body as well, simply because this the strongest part of the body, and best equipped to take an impact without or with minimal deformation.

In the 30+ years that I have been involved in the Automotive industry, I have lifted moncoque and unibody cars time and time again without any issue, and I recommend lifting the LEAF in this manner as well.

 

[aqn]

Does anybody know if these front & rear jack points actually exist, and where they are located?

I have no idea, but in general, I would recommend being careful about using "garage lift points" or any such similarly termed lift points. It's possible that those points are for use with the kind of shop lift that engages at multiple points. As such, when the car is raised at all those points simultaneously, each point would carry less weight than when the car is being raised at only one of those points. One of my previous cars had those "factory lift points". I tried jacking it up at one of those points once. ONCE!

BTW: there is no harm to be had by just lifting the car from one lifting point. The chassis/body is more than rigid enough to take the stress.

Just in case, let me clarify: when I said "'garage lift points' or any such similarly termed lift points", I meant lift points that are other than the sill lift points. On the aforementioned previous car of mine, those "factory lift points" are under the body inboard of the sill, not its sill lift points. By design/definition/necessity, door sill lift points are strong enough to be used individually.

If your intention is to lift the side of your LEAF to rotate tires or to have both tires off of the ground at the same time, start by lifting the car from the front Jack Lifting Point, and jack up the car as far as the jack will allow. This will lift both front and rear wheels off of the ground. Stick a jack stand under the rear Jack Lifting Point, and just leave the jack in place on the front Jack Lifting Point. Now you can safely remove the tires to rotate them or remove them. If you are not comfortable with leaving the jack in place, then place a second jack stand under the the front suspension attachment point.

If you're suggesting a singular front jack point (like the Nissan manual suggests), I will suggest that that is really bad advice!!!!

I do agree about raising the car high enough at the front lift point to get both wheels off the ground. In my case, I did not use a jack stand for additional support. I feel that the car, thus raised, is more than stable enough for changing two wheels. In fact, back when I was still autocrossing, that is how I swap wheels at events. That's swapping wheels about 1000 times (ten seasons, 12 events each, 8 tire changes/event), without incident. (The usual disclaimers go here.)

 

[TonyWilliams]

No, I am not suggesting, I am recommending it, as that is what those jack points were designed for. But in all fairness to your comment, I would be interested in your concerns.

Crushing the underbody aero material... Not being able to see your structural jack point... Having clearly wrong guidance from Nissan...

I have no problem jacking the entire rear from the axle. It's visible and structurally capable. Not true in the front (without some preparation).

PS: your picture does not show any of the underbody aero panels.

 

[OrientExpress]

No, I am not suggesting, I am recommending it, as that is what those jack points were designed for. But in all fairness to your comment, I would be interested in your concerns.

Crushing the underbody aero material... Not being able to see your structural jack point... Having clearly wrong guidance from Nissan...

I have no problem jacking the entire rear from the axle. It's visible and structurally capable. Not true in the front (without some preparation).

PS: your picture does not show any of the underbody aero panels.

Tony, the jack points are on the bottom corner of the rocker panels and are completely obvious. Just get down on your knees and look. These mounts are nowhere near any of the belly aero pans.

Would you like a photo of the actual jack points?

 

[TonyWilliams]

No, I am not suggesting, I am recommending it, as that is what those jack points were designed for. But in all fairness to your comment, I would be interested in your concerns.

Crushing the underbody aero material... Not being able to see your structural jack point... Having clearly wrong guidance from Nissan...

I have no problem jacking the entire rear from the axle. It's visible and structurally capable. Not true in the front (without some preparation).

PS: your picture does not show any of the underbody aero panels.

Tony, the jack points are on the bottom corner of the rocker panels and are completely obvious. Just get down on your knees and look. These mounts are nowhere near any of the belly aero pans.

Would you like a photo of the actual jack points?

I don't think we're communicating well together. :idea:

I have looked at those jack points, both on my knees, and with the car jacked up.

I have used those jack points individually on three occasions with flat tires, putting on my spare.

I've taken pictures of those jack points last spring and posted them May 13, 2011 in this post.

I've raised ny LEAF on both a whole vehicle lift by all four of those jack points at once on numerous occasions.

So, hopefully that clears up the patronizing.


Here's me jacking up my LEAF with the jack points and putting on a spare:

Here's a picture I posted on May 13, 2011, with comment:



Jacking location is identified, like most cars, with the two notches in the lower body:

Left side, looking forward; Main battery mounts, grounding strap, jacking point lugs:

Here I am jacking the LEAF from the rear axle:

Here's my LEAF on a lift:

 

[OrientExpress]

Tony, with all due respect, I just don't get your point about lifting from the body jack points being a bad idea. As you pictures show, If you place the jack on the Jack points, everything is just fine.

What is the issue?

One last thing, regarding lifting the vehicle by the rear suspension A arm. Depending on where the jack is placed, there is a real danger of bending a rear crossbeam that the wheels are attached to simply because a suspension crossbeam and the lower A arms are not designed to be stressed from the middle of the beam or from the A arm mounting bolt. Lifting a car by suspension components has a real risk of damaging suspension components and at the least compromising wheel alignment.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony, with all due respect, I just don't get your point about lifting from the body jack points being a bad idea. As you pictures show, If you place the jack on the Jack points, everything is just fine.

What is the issue?

Hold on a minute; I'm busy finding the dozen or so pictures I've posted on this forum with my car on a jack. Ok, that should be enough....

I never said I had a problem with the perimeter body jack points. I do have an issue with the manual that shows locations that aren't available (besides the perimeter body jack points).

 

[garygid]

Tony thought that you were suggesting using the non-existant (at least not accurately pictured) INTERIOR "garage jack points", but I think you were suggesting using the SILL-SEAM (rocker panel) "owner" jack points, right?

 

[aqn]

Tony thought that you were suggesting using the non-existant (at least not accurately pictured) INTERIOR "garage jack points", but I think you were suggesting using the SILL-SEAM (rocker panel) "owner" jack points, right?

Well, yeah, Tony said:

If your intention is to lift the side of your LEAF to rotate tires or to have both tires off of the ground at the same time, start by lifting the car from the front Jack Lifting Point, and jack up the car as far as the jack will allow.

If you're suggesting a singular front jack point (like the Nissan manual suggests), I will suggest that that is really bad advice!!!!

There are two front jack points in the page that garsh mentioned, one being the sill point (#1), one being the "Garage jack point (front)" (#3) belonging to a car with a cat converter:

The service manual indicates two "garage jack points" for the front & rear of the car: picture. This looks like exactly what I want!

 

[garsh]

There are two front jack points in the page that garsh mentioned, one being the sill point (#1), one being the "Garage jack point (front)" (#3) belonging to a car with a cat converter.

Let's get some terminology straightened out.

• The manual calls the sill points "lift-up points".
• The manual calls the center points "garage jack points".

The center points don't appear to actually exist on the Leaf. The diagrams from the manual do not show an accurate representation of a Leaf (as you can tell from the dual exhaust).

When I rotate tires (using the forward cross pattern), I'll usually jack up one corner, then put that corner on a jack stand. I then use the jack on the other three corners in order of the pattern, moving one wheel at a time. But to do this, I need two lifting points at one corner in order to get that jack stand set. It sounds like I can just lift at one of the rear "lift-up points" high enough, and the whole back end will be raised, at which point I can put the jack stand on the other side.

 

[TonyWilliams]

• The manual calls the sill points "lift-up points".
• The manual calls the center points "garage jack points".

The center points don't appear to actually exist on the Leaf. The diagrams from the manual do not show an accurate representation of a Leaf (as you can tell from the dual exhaust).

Exactly.

 

[garygid]

For the LEAF's type tires, isn't the tire "rotation" pattern just "front to back exchange", not the older, traditional "cross" pattern?

 

[aqn]

Let's get some terminology straightened out.

• The manual calls the sill points "lift-up points".
• The manual calls the center points "garage jack points".

The center points don't appear to actually exist on the Leaf. The diagrams from the manual do not show an accurate representation of a Leaf (as you can tell from the dual exhaust).

Structurally, the front is the same on that car as the LEAF: it shows the subframe under the engine, which subframe carries the A arms. Of course, on the LEAF, the aero panel is in the way.

When I need a front corner on jack stand, I place a hydraulic jack under the A arm's big end, with a piece of 2x4 on the jack's head to spread out the load, jack up the car, then put the jack stand at the sill lift-up point. (The LEAF's aero panel does not cover the A arm.)

BTW, I'm assuming you're using a hydarulic jack, not the stock jack?

When I rotate tires (using the forward cross pattern), I'll usually jack up one corner, then put that corner on a jack stand. I then use the jack on the other three corners in order of the pattern, moving one wheel at a time. But to do this, I need two lifting points at one corner in order to get that jack stand set. It sounds like I can just lift at one of the rear "lift-up points" high enough, and the whole back end will be raised, at which point I can put the jack stand on the other side.

I might be misunderstanding something here, why would jacking the car up at a rear lift-up point raise the whole back end? In any case, I'd start at a front corner, doing what I described above.

On a related note, I'm curious as to why you're using the "forward cross" tire rotation pattern versus a front-to-rear pattern? I don't see any advantages using the "forward cross" pattern.

In both cases, you move the front tire to the back on the same side. The difference is in the "forward cross" pattern, a rear tire gets moved to the opposite front corner. Thing is, in a FWD car, the rear tires see much less wear relative to the fronts. I don't see anything to be gained by rotating a rear tire to the opposite front. I'd keep everything on the same side; that way, you can jack the car up at the front lift-up point high enough to get both wheels off the ground. That's how I rotated mine.

 

[garygid]

The jacks themselves are not expensive.
Just use a 2nd jack, both on the same side, to lift the car
without the "twisting" associated with one-point jacking.