Share info. with local utility? Nissan asks me to...

[brg2290]

Here is the text of an email I received from Nissan - anyone else get this request? If so, how did you respond? Seems harmless enough, and if the info. is actually put to a good purpose regarding charging infrastructure, that would be great. I just wonder how my sharing this info. will help.

"to ensure safe and uninterrupted electric service, with your permission, Nissan plans to share your Nissan LEAF® purchase decision and your street address with your local utility beginning next month. The utility will use this information strictly for service planning. Your information will not be shared, sold or used for any other purposes. If you are willing to share your address, simply edit your My Nissan LEAF® profile accessed under Manage Account to accept this option before April 15, 2013.

For questions, please contact the Nissan LEAF® call center at 1-877-NO-GAS-EV(1-877-664-2738) or visit http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. To get started, click below."


Gary

 

[GoingGreener]

Got that email also. Called Nissan CS and the nice lady there said the same.

I told her we had called our utility when we were thinking about getting a LEAF. They were really concerned and asked us to contact them when we actually purchase one. We also kept contact during our EVSE installation process. Our account should have all the info already.

After some back and forth, I decided to update our Nissan Owner's profile and allow sharing our contact info with our utility. There might be benefits for them and us if there's a "separate" list/department monitoring EVs. I don't know how that'll work. But, we spot so many more LEAFs (and other plug-ins) on our daily drives lately, it'll be good to be able to help each other.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Without a clear benefit to me or some grander scheme I would personally decline.

I called my company before buying, just to see if I would get hit by going over a certain usage amount (we don't have price differentials based on time of day) and they said no. I got the impression that unless I started a huge grow operation and really sucked down some juice that nothing would change and, so far, it hasn't.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Our electric co. put the first 10 EVSE stations in the city (we're over 50 now). It might not be a bad idea to share if there are any thoughts about expanding the infrastructure.

 

[Randy]

Since I work for the local utility, I can tell you that we would welcome this data from owners of electric vehicles. We are bound to keep the data secure and don't share it or market it, if that is a concern. We would mainly use the data to help study and improve the electrical system, and our understanding about the effects of charging vehicles on the grid.

The data can be used for a few different purposes within the utility. We have upgraded a transformer or two in residential neighborhoods where there is a grouping of EVs in adjacent homes (since charging at 3.3kW is almost equivalent to adding another home onto the distribution system, especially if the person charges at peak time). Getting EV location data puts us on alert for these potential overloading situations, whereas it might not be noticed otherwise for some time.

The data is also used by the Distribution Planners in the company for power system engineering and study purposes, and I can see the vehicle/charging location data ultimately helping us to better understand this additional load (especially as more cars are purchased and connected).

In addition, knowing how many customers we have that own and are charging EVs can also help us make decisions with respect to rate offerings in the future for EVs.

I see nothing but good coming out of sharing your location / EV data, and I would recommend it...

 

[Redjr]

Since I work for the local utility, I can tell you that we would welcome this data from owners of electric vehicles. {snip}...

Excellent, very informative post Randy!

I recieved the same email from Nissan. I had already shared the information with WPS, here in Oshkosh when I signed up for TOU. But I updated my account information as well on CarWings a few weeks ago.

 

[jswilson]

The data can be used for a few different purposes within the utility. We have upgraded a transformer or two in residential neighborhoods where there is a grouping of EVs in adjacent homes (since charging at 3.3kW is almost equivalent to adding another home onto the distribution system, especially if the person charges at peak time). Getting EV location data puts us on alert for these potential overloading situations, whereas it might not be noticed otherwise for some time.

Randy: I am currious how you figure that charging at 3.3 kW is almost equivalent to adding another home onto the distribution system? I was under the impression that the average american home uses about 30 kWh each day...

 

[bradbissell]

A empty battery will use 21kW to fill over an 8 hour period. So it is roughly equivalent to the draw of a house, just over a shorter period of time. In my case, my house uses about 12kWh per day without the LEAF. So I am adding an extra house to the grid by charging my battery.

 

[thew]

The data can be used for a few different purposes within the utility. We have upgraded a transformer or two in residential neighborhoods where there is a grouping of EVs in adjacent homes (since charging at 3.3kW is almost equivalent to adding another home onto the distribution system, especially if the person charges at peak time). Getting EV location data puts us on alert for these potential overloading situations, whereas it might not be noticed otherwise for some time.

Randy: I am curious how you figure that charging at 3.3 kW is almost equivalent to adding another home onto the distribution system? I was under the impression that the average american home uses about 30 kWh each day...

Yea,, My Leaf Pulls about the same Amount as my Washer and Dryer.. As My System is all Solar, I can meter the Juice in and out of the Pack..
Why doesn't the Electric Co want to know when I add a new Washer and Dryer.?

I to Think the The electric Co's are simply looking for Marketing and pricing matrix to know how to charge the next gen of Ev users.. In our case we are already on a Net Meter Contract with So Cal Edison.. And they don't remember that we are pushing power to the grid.. We have to remind them when ever they want to shut down the area for maintenance..

But I to received the same Request from Nissan on behalf of So Cal Edison. Kind of Strange because we don't really Pull much power from the Grid at all.. I think they are fishing But It probably cant hurt...

 

[thew]

A empty battery will use 21kW to fill over an 8 hour period. So it is roughly equivalent to the draw of a house, just over a shorter period of time.

Who's House?

 

[davewill]

A empty battery will use 21kW to fill over an 8 hour period. So it is roughly equivalent to the draw of a house, just over a shorter period of time.

Who's House?

Did you even read the part you snipped?

A empty battery will use 21kW to fill over an 8 hour period. So it is roughly equivalent to the draw of a house, just over a shorter period of time. In my case, my house uses about 12kWh per day without the LEAF. So I am adding an extra house to the grid by charging my battery.

Also, the utility is less concerned about the average usage than about peak usage. Adding 3.3kW (or 6kW with the new 2013s) at peak would be significant, particularly if multiple houses in one area do so.

 

[thew]

A empty battery will use 21kW to fill over an 8 hour period. So it is roughly equivalent to the draw of a house, just over a shorter period of time.

Who's House?

Did you even read the part you snipped?

A empty battery will use 21kW to fill over an 8 hour period. So it is roughly equivalent to the draw of a house, just over a shorter period of time. In my case, my house uses about 12kWh per day without the LEAF. So I am adding an extra house to the grid by charging my battery.

Also, the utility is less concerned about the average usage than about peak usage. Adding 3.3kW (or 6kW with the new 2013s) at peak would be significant, particularly if multiple houses in one area do so.

Again, this is assuming that one, you are drawing PEAK power During your complete charge.. And Two that you house is already a huge Power HOG.

Your 220 Volt EVSE is handled by a 30 or 40 amp Breaker. That is based on the Peak Draw at 30 + amps.. When you plug your leaf in it does not draw that.. IT might at start up.. Then the Charge cycles down to fill the Batts at a much lower draw. Just meter your use some day on an average Charge.. you will see .

Your leaf is defiantly not pulling the current of your entire house.. The EVSE cannot pull that much current out of the wall.. If it did the Breaker would Trip.

 

[davewill]

Your leaf is defiantly not pulling the current of your entire house.. The EVSE cannot pull that much current out of the wall.. If it did the Breaker would Trip.

Can't you understand that not all houses, owners, and locations are created equal? Some houses in some locations and some owners may not have as big a base usage as you do where you live. A small house with mostly gas appliances might not use as much electricity as you are accustomed to. The LEAF (esp @ 6kW) could easily draw more than the house generally does.

 

[srl99]

When PG&E stops their usurious residential rates (over 130% of the artificially low baseline) I'll be more inclined to "help", 35-50c/kWH. A far cry from the PG&E marketing line of "equivalent to $1/gal gasoline."

 

[Reddy]

Also depends on the amount of driving and how much to refill the battery. I normally drive <10 mi/day and mostly charge between 1-5am, but only for a couple of hours on L1, and also not every night. Weekends are typically a bit more.

Yesterday was an exception. I got an email from my Nissan dealer saying that there was a Tesla charging. Since I'm in sticksville, I figured that would be my only chance to see one. Drove the extra 20 mi to the dealer, plugged in for about 30 min while checking things out. Got a pretty good "tour". Then instead of driving home, I dropped the Tesla owner at a restaurant so he could get a couple more hours of charging. He was driving from Seattle to Walla Walla with a stop in the Tri-Cities for a couple of business meetings. Pretty cool, I was able to help him out a bit.

As others have said, surprises happen and you need to have enough battery for those little emergencies. Since I normally leave the battery around 50%, this was a bit of a stretch. Driving on the freeway at 70-75 mph (not normal for me) and adding all those extra 50 miles, I got home at LBW. Funny, I think the Tesla owner had more "range anxiety" with the GOM saying 9 mi when I dropped him off. I drove the 8 mi home without being worried, knowing that I had another 10-20 mi availlable if needed. So, to get back OT, I did charge most of the night last night, but still no huge draw for the utility.

 

[davidcary]

We all know that EVs generally help balance the grid since most people charge at night during low use hours.

My Leaf is probably going to add 15% to my bill. A new occupant could draw more power from my house. I personally think the need for peak power changes is way overblown.

But - I am sure that some planning on offering TOU rates in a specific area may have a lot to do with EVs. So I agree - more of a marketing decision.

 

[Publius]

I got that notice and agreed to share my LEAF purchase (I mean lease) with my utility company. I don't see the harm, and as others have said there are possible benefits for me and the utility company.

 

[Randy]

The data can be used for a few different purposes within the utility. We have upgraded a transformer or two in residential neighborhoods where there is a grouping of EVs in adjacent homes (since charging at 3.3kW is almost equivalent to adding another home onto the distribution system, especially if the person charges at peak time). Getting EV location data puts us on alert for these potential overloading situations, whereas it might not be noticed otherwise for some time.

Randy: I am currious how you figure that charging at 3.3 kW is almost equivalent to adding another home onto the distribution system? I was under the impression that the average american home uses about 30 kWh each day...

Some others have already addressed this, but I thought I'd answer as well since the question is directed at me...

The distribution system is engineered and sized for peak load considerations. The entire power system (generation, transmission, and distribution) is designed to serve the load on the hottest summer day when the peak load generally occurs. So power system design issues tend to revolve around instantaneous kW demand rather than the energy consumed over time (kWh).

Here's some average info about our electric system...About half of our transformers that serve residential customers are 25 kVA units (think of that size as being able to deliver a little bit above 25 kW). Also on average, there are 6 residential customers connected to each of these transformers. So, again on average, the system is designed for customers that have peak load demands in the 3-5 kW range. That could be from HVAC, electric dryers, water heaters, ranges, and now, from EV charging.

If you come along and add a 3.3 kW or 6.6 kW EV charging load to the mix, that does represent considerable additional peak load that can be put on the system, and that's where my comment came from about almost adding an additional house worth of load. If you charge your car from midnight to 5am when usage is much reduced elsewhere, that is good for the power system and that's why we have EV rates to incent people to charge during those times. We can accomodate many EVs charging from midnight to 5am without adding any additional infrastructure, which is what we want to incent.

If, on the other hand, you were to charge at 2pm in the afternoon, that is a much less desirable situation for the utility and enough cars on the system charging like this could cause additional infrastructure to have to be installed to accomodate that peak load charging.

Right now the number of cars is small, but growing...So we want to be on top of this loading issue as more cars come to market and are purchased by customers. This will help us keep the level of service high for both the EV driver and the non-EV driver that lives next door.

So again I reiterate my comment that I think it is a good thing to share your data with the utility. You are free to "Stick it to the man" and not share your data, but that doesn't really help me and my colleagues who are trying to do the right thing and help to facilitate the adoption of EVs and integrate them into the power grid the best way possible...

 

[srl99]

@Randy, you say "stick it to da man", I say NO to "thank you sir, may I have another?". Technology has advanced enough that there's no excuse for utility monopolies. Give consumers a free market, and they will choose.

The discount for off peak has a basis in the fact that utilities can't vary their production enough to eliminate the surplus, so in an attempt to use a bit of fair market pricing in a place where it suits them - the monopolies give a small break to buy their product that would go to waste.

Here's an example, in PG&E land you pay $.50/kWH peak, summer, E-9 (TOU), tiers 3 and above (which is the last half of a typical residence's monthly electric use), but they will only pay you $.029/kWH for excess production (you bought too much solar capacity?). Compare this to SMUD's R-1 rate plan (Sacramento, where the state lawmakers live) of approx $.10/kWH for summer peak (up to 700 kWH/mo).

Thank you sir (PG&E), I will NOT have another. You've got smart meter data, I'm not volunteering anything more.

 

[Randy]

@Randy, you say "stick it to da man", I say NO to "thank you sir, may I have another?". Technology has advanced enough that there's no excuse for utility monopolies. Give consumers a free market, and they will choose.

The discount for off peak has a basis in the fact that utilities can't vary their production enough to eliminate the surplus, so in an attempt to use a bit of fair market pricing in a place where it suits them - the monopolies give a small break to buy their product that would go to waste.

Here's an example, in PG&E land you pay $.50/kWH peak, summer, E-9 (TOU), tiers 3 and above (which is the last half of a typical residence's monthly electric use), but they will only pay you $.029/kWH for excess production (you bought too much solar capacity?). Compare this to SMUD's R-1 rate plan (Sacramento, where the state lawmakers live) of approx $.10/kWH for summer peak (up to 700 kWH/mo).

Thank you sir (PG&E), I will NOT have another. You've got smart meter data, I'm not volunteering anything more.

Just one thing to point out. Power does not go to waste during the wee morning hours. The sum of generation exactly always equals the load/demand that customers are making to keep the grid stable and at 60 Hz. When power usage goes down at midnight, certain generators ramp down to keep that balance intact. There is nothing wasted, no power sent out that does not get consumed, etc. But charging cars at that late hour does help keep rates lower for all customers because capital doesn't have to be spent to beef up the generation/transmission/distribution system to handle additional on-peak charging when the power system may be more strained (which is why we've decided to incent that behavior with special EV residential rates).

Anyways, your call on not providing the data. Just wanted to point out that there is a difference between the faceless monolithic big bad utility company and those employees like myself that are trying to help guide the grid to the next generation of technology...