San Diego - Current List of Public Charging Stations

[KMG365]

It is at SDSU (about 2 miles from my house!).

 

[davewill]

It is at SDSU (about 2 miles from my house!).

Ack! So it is. I got tripped up by Tony's guess of UCSD. Sorry.

 

[Randy]

What a beautiful day it was today, in the upper 60s and such great sunshine...Brandon and I set out from San Diego with 9 bars on another EV adventure today. First stop was the In 'n Out burger in Escondido to get some lunch, which really hit the spot. Then we went a little bit further north to check out the in-progress #2 Blink DC FC in Escondido at the Best Western on Seven Oakes Rd...It is coming along very nicely....The Grid Power Unit is installed, and the Charge Dispensing Unit is in place. Looks like just a little more work to go to energize the setup and then the unit can be commissioned. It should be on-line very soon...

And what a great location...Just one exit north of the 78 off of I-15, and the hotel and charging station are within a block or two of the freeway...There will not be any level 2 charging stations at this location (normally one of those is used to fulfill the accessible/handicapped requirement). So one of the two DC FC ports will be made available for a handicapped driver. I can't wait to use this unit as a springboard to get up to Temecula and back...

It was a total "guy day" today for us...We also stopped at North County Fair on the way back to drool at the tool shop at Sears, and also the Carvin guitar showroom/factory store to pick up their latest catalog and check out their beautiful guitars in the showroom...A great time!

 

[DaveEV]

This one is SDSU, Lot G.

I like maps http://goo.gl/maps/eXwQ5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Randy]

This one is SDSU, Lot G.

I like maps http://goo.gl/maps/eXwQ5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's already ICE'd !!!!!

 

[Randy]

Sony Online Entertainment, 8928 Terman Court, San Diego (North of Miramar Road in San Diego)

The SOE campus of buildings in San Diego has 4 new Blink charging stations. While these will mostly serve the employees of Sony, they are open to the public if you need a charge. They bill the Standard Blink rates, and are located north of Miramar Road about miday between I-805 and I-15 in a mostly industrial area...The parking places are stenciled "EV" in small letters, and one of the spots is ADA (although it is also accessible from the regular parking place to the left...A nice install at the Sony Online Entertainment set of buildings...

 

[Randy]

Mission Bay (by the Visitors Information Center), 3199 1/2 E. Mission Bay Drive, San Diego

There are 4 units recently installed and energized just north of the Visitors Information Center in the boat launch parking lot on E. Mission Bay Drive. A great location to recharge while you're at the Bay and a great charging spot for Car2Go as the gateway into and out of Pacific Beach. These charging stations are the first to be installed in the group of 117 units recently approved by the San Diego City Council. Available 7/24 except there is No Parking sign for Turf Maintenance on Tuesday morning from 8-10am in front of one of the spots.

 

[Randy]

Bonita Cove Park, 999 1/3 W. Mission Bay Drive (South of the Bahia Hotel), San Diego

These 4 newly installed units will be energized on 1/17 and are located in the Bonita Cove Park. When entering the parking lot, turn right and find the charging stations by the restroom building. This is an interesting install because a 480 to 208/120 stepdown transformer had to be installed to accomodate the L2 charging stations. The Belmont Park Roller Coaster is just to the west, and this beach-area location will prove to be very popular. This is the second of the City of San Diego locations recently approved by the City Council...Lots to do to pass the time while charging, and if nothing else, you could soak up some of that famous San Diego sunshine...

 

[Randy]

Claire's on Cedros, 246 N Cedros, Solana Beach

Claire's is a restaurant/bakery in Solana Beach in the business district. They have 2 Blink Level 2 units installed there. It looks like 1 of the units is either turned off or otherwise out of order so I'll look into that. If you're interested in a great breakfast in Solana Beach, Claire's is the place to go...Parking can be a little bit tight, but the two EV spaces are in the rear. So you have to drive around back to find them...They currently don't have either one of the two spots marked for handicapped drivers, so they're both available (as soon as the second unit gets fixed)...Check it out....

 

[wsbca]

Claire's on Cedros, 246 N Cedros, Solana Beach

Claire's is a restaurant/bakery in Solana Beach in the business district. They have 2 Blink Level 2 units installed there.

We go to Claire's fairly regularly, and spotted units this weekend, after parking in one of their 'regular' eco-friendly vehicle spots. I'm glad to see the units there, as I had suggested to them early on that getting chargers through the EV Project would be a nice complement to their Leed building and other sustainability practices.

Unfortunately, with the Ecotality pricing that is in place, I personally will never have a reason to actually use them, other than I suppose as a place to park, without actually charging, when it's crowded, which I wouldn't quite be able to bring myself to do.

They might eventually get some action, when 2013 and newer Leafs and other 6kW equipped vehicles find it reasonably worthwhile to charge at, e.g., 22c/kWh instead of 40c (basic plan). Of course, since the site pays for the juice separately on their own while splitting the fee with Ecotality, they probably won't offset their cost in that higher charging rate case since they only get half the gross. Based on what one of the owners told me about the arrangement, it's not at all clear that they were made aware of any option to charge nothing, just pay for the electricity and use it as an incentive for their customers - instead they appear to have been pitched that it will be a revenue generator. The whole model is a travesty compared to what I thought the intent of the initial grant was (to get the infrastructure in place, not to build a permanent revenue stream distinct from the energy cost, for a private sector company.)

Oh well, the pancakes are still awesome.

 

[davewill]

... The whole model is a travesty compared to what I thought the intent of the initial grant was (to get the infrastructure in place, not to build a permanent revenue stream distinct from the energy cost, for a private sector company.)

Oh well, the pancakes are still awesome.

I'm not sure where you got that idea. I guess you just assumed it. The whole point was actually to build a sustainable commercial infrastructure, just like the point of the EV rebate to was to jump start a commercial market for electric cars. Otherwise it would die as soon as the DOD stepped back (it may anyway, but that wasn't the intent). I'm actually glad they're charging money. That way I won't feel guilty about using the charger while shopping in the area.

I tried to go there twice, but bailed because of the line. Now, I'll have to try the pancakes.

 

[Randy]

For me, it's a simple thought process. I'm glad to have as many opportunities to charge in public as possible, even though I charge mostly in my garage.

I use public charging every chance I get, and my monthly bill for that is about $5 (occasionally more). So I'm happy to donate $5 per month to the cause of public charging, even if I don't need it each and every time. I want to see the charging network grow.

I bought a soda for lunch today that was $2.29. I enjoyed the soda very much, even though I have much cheaper sodas at home in the refrigerator that probably cost about 10-15% of that price.

When it comes to charging at home, yes, it is cheaper to charge in the garage during the super off-peak period (midnight to 5am). However, on the flip side, it's actually cheaper to charge my car in public at $1/hour during the peak TOU period than it is in my garage...

Knowing what it costs to install many of these public charging stations, I still maintain that $1/hour is a bargain...

 

[wsbca]

... The whole model is a travesty compared to what I thought the intent of the initial grant was (to get the infrastructure in place, not to build a permanent revenue stream distinct from the energy cost, for a private sector company.)

Oh well, the pancakes are still awesome.

I'm not sure where you got that idea. I guess you just assumed it. The whole point was actually to build a sustainable commercial infrastructure, just like the point of the EV rebate to was to jump start a commercial market for electric cars. Otherwise it would die as soon as the DOD stepped back (it may anyway, but that wasn't the intent). I'm actually glad they're charging money. That way I won't feel guilty about using the charger while shopping in the area.

I tried to go there twice, but bailed because of the line. Now, I'll have to try the pancakes.

I didn't just assume it - it's how the whole thing was portrayed in the initial briefings at CCSE in mid-2010 - DOE (not DOD, though I guess Eisenhower would say it's all the same thing) pays for scads of 'public' chargers to jumpstart the infrastructure, somebody (maybe the site host, to entice customers, maybe the driver) pays for the juice going forward, and we're off to the races, having all pitched in together to pay for the hardware costs through our taxes. The hardware should last for a long time. Yes, there needs to be some economic reason to build more beyond that, but selling overpriced electricity is ultimately not a sustainable business.

I realize there's overhead in any payment structure, but the message was that would be incidental, as it should be with today's technology, a fraction of the commodity (electricity) cost, not a significant multiple of same. Now, maybe the plan all along was to seriously monetize the use of the infrastructure and they just weren't telling anyone, but that absolutely was not the original pitch. If you're saying Ecotality actually bid on and accepted the build and deploy business purely on the basis of being able to then collect rents on parking spaces and surcharges on billing transactions for eternity, rather than mainly being paid fairly to build and deploy the units - that seems pretty sketchy to me, because a lot of money has been paid out for the build and deploy aspect, and not much was initially said about the revenue stream aspect, if anything. The idea of site hosts being able to offer charging free to their customers at their own electricity expense (which would then not require any ongoing payment system support) was definitely part of the story.

Maybe I'm remembering it all wrong, but I don't think so.

I don't have any problem paying a reasonable price for commercial charging, with some consideration beyond the raw cost of electricity, I just don't think $1.50 for 3.77kWh and mandatory rounding to the hour is that price, especially in the context of visiting an enterprise that may have been led to believe that offering charging at that cost will actually be an enticement for someone like me to come there! Now, with a 6.0kW charger, and at the $1.00/hr premium membership price, the answer is definitely different, so maybe everything's going to work out great for 2013ers and beyond, and I'm just bitter because I jumped too early. On the other hand I would not be shocked if "L2+" charging for 2013's gets repriced to $3.00...based on what's happened so far that seems more likely than "legacy L2" being repriced to .75 (which would shut me right up, but I don't see it happening)

I agree with you that it's good there is a charge, I just wish it was more in line with the ongoing cost (not the capital cost - we all already paid for that!!), and that more of it went to the host (or not, if the host so chose.) Claire's would probably make more money in the long run putting in a few L1 outlets with their own signage.

In the next reply above, Randy says $1 is a bargain knowing what the charging stations cost to put in - that's a bit specious, don't you think?...a major part of my rantImeanpoint is that Ecotality didn't front the cost for those stations in hopes of recovering the expense through ongoing rents, they were paid up front and outright to put them in. Those further, ongoing rents surely are not being returned to the DOE and from there to taxpayer pockets.

Anyway, I'll shut up now. My car is great, I appreciate my Blink. If the way the 'public' charging is being deployed is useful for others, great, I don't have to like it or use it. I'll save up my ire for next January when Nissan starts charging me some exorbitant annual fee just for pinging my car with my phone a couple of times a month

 

[Randy]

Thanks for your note and opinion.

The one thing I'll add (in case you or other readers didn't know) is that somehow I think the specifics of the EV Project were misunderstood in one particular respect. Yes, the hardware has been funded by the DOE grant, but the installation was never meant to be 100% covered. It was evidently always meant to be a "skin in the game" situation for the hosts with the way the DOE grant was structured, so while an installation subsidy existed, it frequently didn't pay for the entire installation of the stations.

So instead of signing up many hosts who wanted to participate (for free), the potential hosts learned that they needed to contribute real money for the installation. Some did and moved forward, but quite a few couldn't afford it or didn't want to pay the price in this economy. It became a much more difficult task to site the units. Anyways, the whole point I wanted to make is that it is a rare host that wants to pay for their share of the installation AND also the electricity for charging. Don't forget that the hosts also give up precious parking spaces for the charging stations as well. Not a big deal in a lot with hundreds of spaces, but it becomes a much bigger issue to give up 2 spaces if your lot only has 12, 15 or 20 spots...If the EV drivers don't use the chargers, then the host may ultimately remove the stations just to get their parking back. I don't want to see that happen.

It has taken some pretty serious money for some of the charging stations we now have in place, and I want to do my part to help sustain them by paying to use them...I think of my $1 per hour as a loyalty payment to the hosts that took a chance and ponied up several thousand dollars to install their stations. I also patronize their businesses, and try to show them that they made the right decision by moving forward and investing in the charging infrastructure.

If many of us drivers had this philosophy, the increased revenue would help the cause...

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I just don't think $1.50 for 3.77kWh and mandatory rounding to the hour is that price, especially in the context of visiting an enterprise that may have been led to believe that offering charging at that cost will actually be an enticement for someone like me to come there!

".... vended packaged cold drinks generated $23.7 billion in 2010, or 56.2% of sales."

"In vending, the projection for per capita spending for 2013 is $26 or $27, down slightly from 2008."

The averages say you buy about $2 worth of vending machine stuff per month. Congrats.

 

[davewill]

... If you're saying Ecotality actually bid on and accepted the build and deploy business purely on the basis of being able to then collect rents on parking spaces and surcharges on billing transactions for eternity, rather than mainly being paid fairly to build and deploy the units - that seems pretty sketchy to me, because a lot of money has been paid out for the build and deploy aspect, and not much was initially said about the revenue stream aspect, if anything. ...

Maybe they didn't say so in these events, but it's patently obvious that if they don't have that attitude, their business will go straight down the toilet and we'll have a bunch of abandoned EVSEs. They are likely already not charging us enough to support the stations that are out there...and you want it cheaper?

 

[wsbca]

... If you're saying Ecotality actually bid on and accepted the build and deploy business purely on the basis of being able to then collect rents on parking spaces and surcharges on billing transactions for eternity, rather than mainly being paid fairly to build and deploy the units - that seems pretty sketchy to me, because a lot of money has been paid out for the build and deploy aspect, and not much was initially said about the revenue stream aspect, if anything. ...

Maybe they didn't say so in these events, but it's patently obvious that if they don't have that attitude, their business will go straight down the toilet and we'll have a bunch of abandoned EVSEs. They are likely already not charging us enough to support the stations that are out there...and you want it cheaper?

I don't really want anything (cheaper) - I'm fine without public chargers or with knowing they are there in an emergency (for which I'd pay a lot MORE.) What I do want is lots of EVs on the road, and I think later adopters are going to be irked once they do the cost per mile calculations of this type of charging.

A post or two above, Tony somewhat cryptically congratulates me for drinking $2 of expensive vending machine soda per year - I think what he is saying is people are willing to pay extra for certain forms of convenience, more rapid gratification, time savings etc. Of course they are, but I don't think fuel fits that model very well. When I'm out and about and thirsty, certainly I'll pay a premium for a cold beverage that I can drink right then, even though the one I have at home is far cheaper. But when it comes to the car - more often than not, it's not all that thirsty. As long as someone can easily make it home, they aren't going to be interested in paying a premium. Which ultimately relegates the infrastructure to emergency use, and likely makes it even more expensive.

I'm not yet convinced that artificially propping up the supply/demand equation with pure enthusiasm, even if it's not that burdensome financially to do so, is the right strategy for the long term. Maybe I'm wrong, and if someone can show me how, I'm all ears. Is the argument that we early adopters need to overpay now to reach critical mass, and then the market will take over and all will be well? Are there other examples in history of that actually working? Maybe - to some extent I'm participating in that way with rooftop residential solar. But even if we few were all to pay to charge at every opportunity, it seems like just a drop in the bucket, not a market force. I'm all about pushing the string at my own expense for the public good - our solar system doesn't come anywhere near penciling out, never will, and yet we coughed up the dough...same with the Leaf, for our lifestyle we're definitely not saving any money, in fact drastically the opposite all things considered. This isn't about me personally being reluctant to spend $5 a month like Randy does - I'll happily spend multiples of that, but I want to see the long term logic, and it has to make sense!

Ultimately, I imagine a world as was depicted (apparently, I didn't see the episode) in an alternate universe timeline in Fringe, where every parking space had charging, and the fuel was ubiquitous, presumably at market price (just like gasoline is today, in sufficiently developed areas). I wish it were more clear how to get there.

Let me try it this way - how much of the price of a gallon of gas is the cost of the pump unit and the credit card processing? It's surely not a multiple of the cost of extracting, processing and distributing the fuel...it's got to be a fraction.

For now, I'm going to go with the idea that you guys are right, and I'll commit to using my Blink card to buy juice when the opportunity presents itself, e.g. at Claire's or Ikea/Lowes/Costco and I'll hope that it will help - but I'm still not seeing it as sustainable. As I said somewhere above, it actually seems like there could be pretty good equilibrium at 6.0kW and $1/hr, but at that point, there's really none of this serious extra revenue that you guys are saying is necessary, so I remain a bit confused/conflicted.

 

[davewill]

... As I said somewhere above, it actually seems like there could be pretty good equilibrium at 6.0kW and $1/hr, but at that point, there's really none of this serious extra revenue that you guys are saying is necessary, so I remain a bit confused/conflicted.

The parking space is much more valuable than the juice. I don't think the cost of the electricity or the speed the car charges at is much of a factor for public L2. I assume it's all infrastructure and upkeep, at least for now.

 

[lkkms2]

For me, it's a simple thought process. I'm glad to have as many opportunities to charge in public as possible, even though I charge mostly in my garage.

I use public charging every chance I get, and my monthly bill for that is about $5 (occasionally more). So I'm happy to donate $5 per month to the cause of public charging, even if I don't need it each and every time. I want to see the charging network grow.

I bought a soda for lunch today that was $2.29. I enjoyed the soda very much, even though I have much cheaper sodas at home in the refrigerator that probably cost about 10-15% of that price.

When it comes to charging at home, yes, it is cheaper to charge in the garage during the super off-peak period (midnight to 5am). However, on the flip side, it's actually cheaper to charge my car in public at $1/hour during the peak TOU period than it is in my garage...

Knowing what it costs to install many of these public charging stations, I still maintain that $1/hour is a bargain...

+1 glad to pay a few $ a month to support the infrastructure and have it available when I really need it. Glad the locations are growing to provide more flexibility to drive outside my normal commute.

 

[ttweed]

New infrastructure and Microgrid money for UCSD:
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelea...eek&utm_medium=email&utm_source=tw-2013-01-17

By June 2013, the university expects to have a total of 54 charging outlets, with more than 70 percent available for public use.

Word is some are going to be DCFC.

TT