Recommended charger types via price/quality

[keydiver]

How soon are you taking possession of your LEAF? The Schneider unit works great for me, but is temporarily unavailable because of an out-of-tolerance part. Hopefully Home Depot will have them again soon:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12171&start=40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[EVDRIVER]

No advantage to 40a now, but maybe later. Two years ago there was little or no advantage for 30a. The 40a Leviton has a dock for the handle. Their lower amp units do not and use what appears to be a garden hose hook which some have complained that the cord falls off and the connector can get dirty when hitting the floor.

I preferred Leviton because of their reputation and I liked the powder coated metal casing. I didn't want to pay the extra money for the 40a unit, so I bought the Siemens VersiCharge 240V 30a from Home Depot online for $849. I was going to get it from Amazon, but when I went back Friday to order, they raised the price to $995. I figured that I had better jump on the $849 price at Home Depot before they raised the price too.

My electrician installed the 40a breaker and 250v 50a NEMA 6-50 plug yesterday for $120. My breaker box is in the garage. So all in with taxes, I'll spend about $1020 and plan to get my 30% tax credit, so net net about $750. That is about twice what you'd pay for EVSE upgrade, but it's more convenient.

The VersiCharge should arrive this week and my Cayenne Red 2013 Leaf SL is supposed to arrive this week too.

No advantage to 40a unless your next EV can use it.

The charge time difference between that and the wall unit is minimal and you would have a portable higher power unit you could even use on a dryer outlet. I have a true 6.7kw charger to pack (2013 is 6kw to pack) and use an upgraded cord and stations and the charge time difference is very small. In fact if you need a quick charge that usually means you need it in a shorter time which makes the difference even more insignificant. The only potential inconvenient part is if you need to bring your EVSE with you, in which case you can now still upgrade your unit and have it always in your car. I frequently charge using 240 at peoples homes which saves me from being stuck too late at a relatives house for long boring talks during a 120V charge session

 

[mhigley]

I went the evseupgrade.com route. I can charge level 2 at campsites or at a friends house. It's cheaper and more useful. I have had my 2012 SV for six months and I don't see any reason to spend three times the money on a wall mounted unit that is not as useful as my upgraded cord.

 

[cgaydos]

I dont have a 240v outlet in the garage so it would be $287 + electrician install of a 240v outlet in the garage. Wish I knew the high/low costs of having this done. As of now I am clueless.

As others have said, you need to get quotes to be sure. But there are a couple things you might be able to do to help get an idea of the range.

First thing is to determine if there is enough room in your electrical panel - both space and capacity. Since you already took a picture of the inside of the breaker box for the consultant you might post it here. Space is that you'll need two slots for a 240V circuit breaker. Capacity depends on the size of the service panel, such as "200 amp", which is common except in older construction. It also depends on what else you have in there. 200 amp and normal household stuff would suggest (but not guarantee) no capacity problem - if you have a few other things like a hot tub or a subpanel for a granny unit or an unusually large house with lots of outlet circuits then capacity might be an issue. Worst case you'd need to upgrade the service to more amps which would be multiple thousands of dollars.

The next thing is location. Absolutely easiest is if the electrical panel is on the same garage wall as where you will be placing the EVSE. If not, then you will incur more costs running the 240V circuit to your EVSE.

With that information we might be able to give you a sense of the range of costs - but ultimately you'll need to get an electrician on-site to assess.

 

[ehunter]

The part I don't buy is that newer EV technologies will make slower EVSEs obsolete. I would expect that EVs will become slightly more efficient over time, so the old EVSE will actually provide a few more miles in the same amount of time as it does today. One enhancement that is almost certainly coming is larger batteries. That obviously means that my old, slow, EVSE can't fill the battery from empty to full in the time it does today, but paradoxically that too may make it more effective than it is now. Given an average number of miles traveled per day, a small battery constricts you to daily charging and limited excursions beyond the average. If your battery capacity is (say) six times your average travel distance, you will need to charge only once or sometimes twice a week, and a storm knocking out your power will be much less of a concern. You can also float your charge up and down, letting the battery itself act as a buffer. The EVSE now needs only to be able to handle your average usage, not your maximum usage.

There is truth to this. I know of older people who still use their windows i386 for word processing. Why not if it still gets the job done. I am not so sure we are on the same page(not as if we have to be) as to how long it will take to consider something obsolete. The technology we are jumping on I still consder to still be in its infancy and may go through some significant upgrades as years pass. You just never know and have ot go with your gut feel.

Personally, I expect to use my 12A (yes, 12, not 16) EVSEupgrade for the rest of my life if it doesn't wear out before I do, because I don't expect to ever average more than 100 miles/day (i.e. 36K miles/year). Nine hours average charging/day would handle that forever into the future.

Peoples lifes change unexpectedly and in uncontrolled ways. You just never know and all one can do is just roll with the punches.

 

[ehunter]

I didn't want to pay the extra money for the 40a unit, so I bought the Siemens VersiCharge 240V 30a from Home Depot online for $849. I was going to get it from Amazon, but when I went back Friday to order, they raised the price to $995. I figured that I had better jump on the $849 price at Home Depot before they raised the price too.

My electrician installed the 40a breaker and 250v 50a NEMA 6-50 plug yesterday for $120. My breaker box is in the garage. So all in with taxes, I'll spend about $1020 and plan to get my 30% tax credit, so net net about $750. That is about twice what you'd pay for EVSE upgrade, but it's more convenient.

Yes, I did not feel need to pay an additional $150 either for no measureable advantage. I bought the VersiCharge too last night. What area do you live in? I wonder how many days Homies needs to ship it to you.

Your install costs look great and is a great data point for me on what to possibly what to expect. Thanks for that.

How soon are you taking possession of your LEAF?

It will be after the 26th of this month. Anything can happen though as I have not put any money down to reserve it once it is in the area. Reason is I am still dickering around with the sales dealerships.

I went the evseupgrade.com route. I can charge level 2 at campsites or at a friends house. It's cheaper and more useful. I have had my 2012 SV for six months and I don't see any reason to spend three times the money on a wall mounted unit that is not as useful as my upgraded cord.

I might consider this as an additional solution to a wall unit as well. I also want to minimize boring conversations while a 120 tries to do its work. The unit will permanently live in the storage area of the car.

 

[Nubo]

... The 40a Leviton has a dock for the handle. Their lower amp units do not and use what appears to be a garden hose hook which some have complained that the cord falls off and the connector can get dirty when hitting the floor. ...

Not sure about the 320, but the 160 uses the Yazaki plug which has a small hole in the trigger. Makes for a convenient way to stow the plug on the wall.

 

[dgpcolorado]

As long as you are designing your EVSE installation I will point out that you don't have to drape your cable on the garage floor. I used bicycle hooks to put mine along the ceiling to reduce the tripping hazard and keep it out of the way:

Where I live, on a dirt road in snow country, my garage collects a lot of dirt in Winter. Putting the EVSE cable along the ceiling also keeps it out of the dirt. For those who keep their garage floors so clean that one could eat off of them, this isn't an issue. But out here in the wilderness it is...

 

[ehunter]

Since you already took a picture of the inside of the breaker box for the consultant you might post it here.

The first photo shows the house breaker box location with the large arrow. Then there is a RED dot on the right side of the same photo. The MAIN breaker is on the other side of the wall, outside. I would rather have the unit installed, maybe mid-wall although I could live with it being right in back of where the main panel is.

 

[apvbguy]

However, the real question is why you need to charge at full speed at home. The 6kW charger is a huge benefit if you are sitting at a public charging station somewhere waiting for enough juice to make it home. But most people really shouldn't care whether the charge takes two hours or four hours while you are sleeping at night. (Approximate average numbers for a person driving 50 miles per day. YMMV)

Ray

Ray, this is not directed at you so please no offense is intended.
that said, the scenario of being able to charge over night is one that is over used and really is a fallacious argument against upgrading to faster charging capabilities.
for example a common scenario for me is this one, in the morning 9am or so, I do an airport run, 70 miles r/t and come home at 11 am and plug in, at 2pm I want to go to the mall 25 miles r/t, if I have a slower charger I may not be ready to go on the second trip.
me belief is that it would be better to be able to turn the car around faster and if I can accomplish that by upgrading my chargers why would anyone be negative to the concept?
the assumption that everyone has the same driving habits is the flaw in the argument you and many others use.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Ray, this is not directed at you so please no offense is intended.
that said, the scenario of being able to charge over night is one that is over used and really is a fallacious argument against upgrading to faster charging capabilities.
for example a common scenario for me is this one, in the morning 9am or so, I do an airport run, 70 miles r/t and come home at 11 am and plug in, at 2pm I want to go to the mall 25 miles r/t, if I have a slower charger I may not be ready to go on the second trip.
me belief is that it would be better to be able to turn the car around faster and if I can accomplish that by upgrading my chargers why would anyone be negative to the concept?
the assumption that everyone has the same driving habits is the flaw in the argument you and many others use.

In the scenario you outline your analysis makes sense. However, my reading of the mileage and charge patterns of hundreds of LEAF drivers over the last couple of years makes me think that your situation is quite unusual. Consider, for example, the number of people who charge only at Level 1! For the vast majority of people here, charging overnight over three to six hours is all that is needed. Occasional outliers, such as you, would benefit from home charging at the 6 kW speed. For the majority? Not so much, from what I've observed.

So, I agree with Ray that pointing out that most people don't need the faster charging at home is helpful because LEAF newcomers have a tendency to think that a 6 kW charger must be paired with a 30 Amp EVSE; otherwise, what good is it? For most, but not all, the benefit of a 6 kW charger is faster L2 opportunity charging away from home. At least newcomers should give some thought to how they really expect to use their LEAF before spending more on a 30 Amp EVSE.

 

[TerryDycus]

$1000 tax credit for buying EV charge station till end 2013:

"The recent fiscal cliff deal that Congress passed included a broad set of tax extenders for all electric vehicle charging stations and installations.

The Section 30C credit* for Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property includes a credit of up to $1,000 for the purchase and installation of a charging station for personal use. Additionally, Section 30C includes a 30 percent credit, capped at $30,000 for business/investment use per site. So spread the word and pass on the savings."

Please visit:
US CODE: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30C
And download 2011 IRS FORM:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8911.pdf

 

[dgpcolorado]

$1000 tax credit for buying EV charge station till end 2013:

"The recent fiscal cliff deal that Congress passed included a broad set of tax extenders for all electric vehicle charging stations and installations.

The Section 30C credit* for Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property includes a credit of up to $1,000 for the purchase and installation of a charging station for personal use. Additionally, Section 30C includes a 30 percent credit, capped at $30,000 for business/investment use per site. So spread the word and pass on the savings."

Please visit:
US CODE: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30C
And download 2011 IRS FORM:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8911.pdf

Did they fix the problem that caused the EVSE credit to be disallowed if in the same year one applies for the $7500 EV tax credit? Wouldn't apply to those leasing but it sure was annoying for me when I purchased my LEAF.

 

[apvbguy]

$1000 tax credit for buying EV charge station till end 2013:

"The recent fiscal cliff deal that Congress passed included a broad set of tax extenders for all electric vehicle charging stations and installations.

The Section 30C credit* for Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property includes a credit of up to $1,000 for the purchase and installation of a charging station for personal use. Additionally, Section 30C includes a 30 percent credit, capped at $30,000 for business/investment use per site. So spread the word and pass on the savings."

Please visit:
US CODE: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30C
And download 2011 IRS FORM:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8911.pdf

is this credit still going to be valid for installations in 2013?
could this credit be applied to the upgrade of the cord that many are/have done?

 

[apvbguy]

Ray, this is not directed at you so please no offense is intended.
that said, the scenario of being able to charge over night is one that is over used and really is a fallacious argument against upgrading to faster charging capabilities.
for example a common scenario for me is this one, in the morning 9am or so, I do an airport run, 70 miles r/t and come home at 11 am and plug in, at 2pm I want to go to the mall 25 miles r/t, if I have a slower charger I may not be ready to go on the second trip.
me belief is that it would be better to be able to turn the car around faster and if I can accomplish that by upgrading my chargers why would anyone be negative to the concept?
the assumption that everyone has the same driving habits is the flaw in the argument you and many others use.

In the scenario you outline your analysis makes sense. However, my reading of the mileage and charge patterns of hundreds of LEAF drivers over the last couple of years makes me think that your situation is quite unusual. Consider, for example, the number of people who charge only at Level 1! For the vast majority of people here, charging overnight over three to six hours is all that is needed. Occasional outliers, such as you, would benefit from home charging at the 6 kW speed. For the majority? Not so much, from what I've observed.

So, I agree with Ray that pointing out that most people don't need the faster charging at home is helpful because LEAF newcomers have a tendency to think that a 6 kW charger must be paired with a 30 Amp EVSE; otherwise, what good is it? For most, but not all, the benefit of a 6 kW charger is faster L2 opportunity charging away from home. At least newcomers should give some thought to how they really expect to use their LEAF before spending more on a 30 Amp EVSE.

While I am a newbie without the knowledge you appear to have I would think that many people, especially on weekends could benefit from being able to recharge in 2-3 hours versus 8+ hours.

 

[cwerdna]

me belief is that it would be better to be able to turn the car around faster and if I can accomplish that by upgrading my chargers why would anyone be negative to the concept?

It sounds like you and the OP are getting terminology confused. The L1 "trickle charge" cord set w/brick and L2 "charging stations" that are usually permanently mounted are all EVSEs, NOT chargers.

For L1 and L2 charging, the charger is on-board the car. It's in the back under the hump on '11 and '12 Leafs but moved to be under the hood on '13 Leafs.

 

[apvbguy]

me belief is that it would be better to be able to turn the car around faster and if I can accomplish that by upgrading my chargers why would anyone be negative to the concept?

It sounds like you and the OP are getting terminology confused. The L1 "trickle charge" cord set w/brick and L2 "charging stations" that are usually permanently mounted are all EVSEs, NOT chargers.

For L1 and L2 charging, the charger is on-board the car. It's in the back under the hump on '11 and '12 Leafs but moved to be under the hood on '13 Leafs.

thanks for the clarification, I'll get it soon, I am getting the upgrade on my charger to enable l2 like charging times. I was saying that in many cases installing a L2 charger at home would be a good thing to have in order to enable more usage of the car.

 

[ehunter]

However, my reading of the mileage and charge patterns of hundreds of LEAF drivers over the last couple of years makes me think that your situation is quite unusual.
...
Occasional outliers, such as you, would benefit from home charging at the 6 kW speed. For the majority? Not so much, from what I've observed.

I dont think it is unusual at all. I fit in with this model, my carpool partner who is driving the EV RAV4 SUV does not fit, and I see other Leafers cruzing the route down to Sillicon Valley, 38 miles away from San Fran all the time.

My rough estimate is 1 in 5,6, or 7 drivers fits the the longer distance mold. I cant prove it though just the same as others cant prove otherwise either, all hand waving aside.

The longer the distance per day a person travels, the better the return on their investment. However I understand that many drivers get more insecure the longer the commute in a EV so this dynamic is hard to get a read on.

Did they fix the problem that caused the EVSE credit to be disallowed if in the same year one applies for the $7500 EV tax credit? Wouldn't apply to those leasing but it sure was annoying for me when I purchased my LEAF.

WOW. This would really piss me off. Was it an error or by fed design?

 

[planet4ever]

thanks for the clarification, I'll get it soon, I am getting the upgrade on my charger to enable l2 like charging times. I was saying that in many cases installing a L2 charger at home would be a good thing to have in order to enable more usage of the car.

:lol: Maybe soon, but you don't have it yet. Here is what you meant to say:

I am getting the upgrade on my L1 EVSE to enable L2 charging times. I was saying that in many cases installing a L2 EVSE at home would be a good thing to have in order to enable more usage of the car.

The charger is built in to the car. A number of people have dreamed of upgrading the chargers in the 2011 or 2012 LEAFs to use the higher powered one in the 2013 LEAF, but doing so would be totally impractical.

Ray

 

[planet4ever]

Did they fix the problem that caused the EVSE credit to be disallowed if in the same year one applies for the $7500 EV tax credit? Wouldn't apply to those leasing but it sure was annoying for me when I purchased my LEAF.

WOW. This would really piss me off. Was it an error or by fed design?

It was an "oversight" in the way the law was written. I checked the new law carefully. Absolutely nothing was changed except the expiration date and the statement that it was retroactive to EVSEs installed in 2012.

It doesn't automatically exclude everybody. If I remember correctly I calculated that there was a narrow range of AGI, maybe around $70K for most people, where you might be able to get partial, or possibly even full, credit. The basic problem is that AMT starts to ramp up around $60K, and you can only get the credit if your AMT is more than $7,500 lower than your regular tax. Much below $70K and you don't even have $7,500 tax liability. Much above that and AMT is starting to catch up.

Ray