recommended approach for efficiency on-highway?

[LEAFfan]

In many states, it is illegal to do so. Of course, those rules were written some time ago..

With respect to coasting in neutral, when I was taught to drive stick, this included a general "avoid coasting in neutral" lesson, for safety reasons I guess, and I have stuck to that when driving stick, but will consider changing a bit with the Nissan under occasional low-traffic conditions, we'll see.

It could be argued that there is no "neutral" in the Leaf, as it has no transmission. A fully charged Leaf brakes as if it is in N, so no law is being broken when putting the vehicle in the N position. I would say N stands for No energy flow, and that is a closer description for what it is than Neutral.

I would not advise a long mountain descent with a fully charged battery, as the heat from the brakes may not get you to the bottom safely. Should you find this to be an issue, jack rabbit the vehicle where safe (Use 80KW), and brake hard enough to not engage the regen until you have some reliable regen slowing.

Gaining speed through coasting is an eerie feeling if you are not able to slow the vehicle except with the brake. The Leaf regen is a lot of fun on mountain roads. I typically can alternate between N, D, and ECo modes to drop over 3000 feet and never touch any pedal.

Unlike a vehicle with a transmission (or stick), the Leaf will always go back into D or ECO. In a transmission vehicle, the gears have to be turning at the same speed to get them to align (shift), and judging that is something most people can not do well (nor can an automatic transmission). The clutch is an aid to get this job done (Which puts you in neutral, so if that is a law, you break it every time you shift). You can do it without a clutch if you judge it right. Selecting the right gear is why Neutral is a bad idea in a stick shift. Imagine doing 70 and dropping into first gear. Even if the car survives the skid mark on the road would not be safe.

Neither of these issues exist in the Leaf.

+1!

 

[LEAFfan]

Yes, neutral can squeeze a little extra distance out of your battery, but I'm far more interested in squeezing a little extra safety out of my car. I never use neutral when on the road.
Ray

Actually, using neutral can increase your mileage/m/kW h by quite a bit, even on level terrain. Since you never use it, you can't know. I won the Efficiency Rally with an 8.5m/kW h. I wouldn't have had even close to that without coasting. It's very safe when you use it prudently.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Gaining speed through coasting is an eerie feeling if you are not able to slow the vehicle except with the brake. The Leaf regen is a lot of fun on mountain roads. I typically can alternate between N, D, and ECo modes to drop over 3000 feet and never touch any pedal.

Yes. After using regen—and some braking—to descend my hill, I shift to neutral when approaching the bottom. Feeling the LEAF accelerate smartly just due to gravity and a low Cd takes some getting used to! It's a little like that feeling at the top of a roller coaster as one accelerates down the incline. When I do it in my manual transmission Jeep the acceleration is much more subdued; even though the weight is about the same, the Jeep has very poor aerodynamics compared to a LEAF.

Unlike a vehicle with a transmission (or stick), the Leaf will always go back into D or ECO. In a transmission vehicle, the gears have to be turning at the same speed to get them to align (shift), and judging that is something most people can not do well (nor can an automatic transmission). The clutch is an aid to get this job done (Which puts you in neutral, so if that is a law, you break it every time you shift). You can do it without a clutch if you judge it right. Selecting the right gear is why Neutral is a bad idea in a stick shift. Imagine doing 70 and dropping into first gear. Even if the car survives the skid mark on the road would not be safe.

Neither of these issues exist in the Leaf.

Now that you mention it, I think that you are right about the reason driving in neutral is illegal in many states. I did practice shifting without the clutch in one of my cars some years ago. It came in handy when I broke a clutch cable and was able to limp home without it.

 

[jlsoaz]

Actually, using neutral can increase your mileage/m/kW h by quite a bit, even on level terrain. Since you never use it, you can't know. I won the Efficiency Rally with an 8.5m/kW h. I wouldn't have had even close to that without coasting.

Great to get these comments from your personal experience. This re-inforces my suggestion to Nissan that they look into whether there is anything about what you and other efficiency-minded drivers are doing that could be automated so that it becomes a more seamless and perhaps standard feature offered on all Leafs - to have the car make smart decisions in the background as to when to coast, without the driver having to figure out when to switch back and forth from neutral to one of the engaged drive modes.

I keep wondering if any of the strong efficiency improvement that Mitsubishi made in 2011 may have been in this area of sometimes coasting, but reading more closely, it looks like it is more about biasing the car more strongly toward regen braking (perhaps in a slower-cycle test, stronger regen braking would result in a longer range?)

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/publish/pressrelease_en/products/2011/news/detail0797.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mitsubishi Motors introduces major improvements to i-MiEV new-generation EV
- Now available in two trim levels: Easily affordable "M" and Highly capable "G" -
Tokyo, July 6, 2011 -

[...]
•Using the same 16.0 kWh battery as the original i-MiEV, G now realizes around 20 percent* increase in its single charge range (J08-cycle range of 180 km).
[...]
Principal changes over the original i-MiEV
(1) Better performance
•Improvements to the MiEV OS (MiEV Operating System) integrated vehicle management system mean that both trim levels now employ a more effective regenerative braking system which increases the energy recovery bias when the driver operates the brake pedal. This results in more deceleration energy being recovered and increases the single charge cruising range by about 20 percent.
[...]

It's very safe when you use it prudently.

I think there are various good arguments for the idea that staying in gear helps with safety, and I was glad that Ray spoke up on this point.

My own thought over many years has been that a prime reason it is considered unsafe to coast in neutral has to do with the fact that it slightly reduces a level of control over the vehicle. In order to react to whatever may be ahead, while it may be a simple matter of braking and steering, it may not be... one has introduced added complication - remember that one is in neutral and then shift into gear. [I did succeed in shifting my Leaf into Neutral a couple of hundred yards before an exit ramp the other day, and then wanted to speed up just a bit, but I had forgotten I was in neutral... I guess it takes a bit of getting used to.]

Further, the fact that one is in gear may act as a predictable slight drag on the vehicle - maybe not good for efficiency but to some maybe of subtle value as an added level of control over the vehicle and as a general bias toward slowing down rather than speed - something I was taught was of value in safety (e.g.: as a general rule, staying off the gas can help a person be a less aggressive, more defensive driver.)

Also, it may help keep speed relatively stable to stay in gear, which is an issue in how one relates to other vehicles and spacing from them... i.e. taking into account that just because one thinks one is driving safely for oneself does not mean that other drivers are as readily able to deal with one's vehicle's speed-ups and slow-downs.

I found some discussion of this on another discussion board from a few years back (HCV drivers discussing coasting for saving gas) with many of the same semi-resentful comments questioning the safety concept and against any laws, but with some attempt to figure it out. Perhaps, for example, driving in neutral could put one at slightly increased risk for an HCV to stall-out while at speed, dangerously cutting power steering, etc.:

http://www.gassavers.org/f69/coasting-in-neutral-illegal-881.html
Coasting in Neutral Illegal???
05-08-2006, 05:50 PM

There is also the question discussed of the difficulty of shifting into gear if something were to go wrong with the clutch.

While I just wanted to say that there are reasons - in my view probably decent reasons - for questioning if there is (perhaps more with HCVs) a reduced level of safety to driving manually in neutral, this does not mean at all that I will avoid trying it out a little bit.

More broadly, I think it's great that some are really doing this with great efficiency results and I'm particularly hoping we might be able to convince Nissan and other engineers to look into whether there is some unexpected significant efficiency gain to be had here by automating this for all Leaf and other EV drivers.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Yes, neutral can squeeze a little extra distance out of your battery, but I'm far more interested in squeezing a little extra safety out of my car. I never use neutral when on the road.
Ray

Actually, using neutral can increase your mileage/m/kW h by quite a bit, even on level terrain. Since you never use it, you can't know. I won the Efficiency Rally with an 8.5m/kW h. I wouldn't have had even close to that without coasting. It's very safe when you use it prudently.

Amen and to LEAFfan's credit, I was also in the camp that neutral was an unnecessary risk and hassle but I now also do the same thing.

This has resulted in slightly better town performance (after driving a Prius for 8 years, I am no stranger to efficient driving) but cant tell you how many times I was able to drive cross town without touching the brakes except to park at my destination. It does involve some luck but I can attest that it can be done!

 

[dgpcolorado]

...I think there are various good arguments for the idea that staying in gear helps with safety, and I was glad that Ray spoke up on this point...

I think it is worth reiterating that the LEAF doesn't have a transmission or "gears" in any usual sense of the term. Dropping a shift because one is in neutral and can't get the car back in gear isn't an issue with a LEAF. "Shifting" in a LEAF is just tweaking the magnetic fields in the motor; neutral is no field in either direction. There really is no comparison with an ICE car transmission, especially when it comes to safety.

If you really feel uncomfortable using the neutral setting in the LEAF you can get the same results by feathering the accelerator in Eco so that your energy screen graph shows 0 kW. Holding the A pedal in that position will keep the car in "neutral" regardless of terrain or speed (I think that was a nice touch by Nissan engineers). Then if something comes up and you want to slow, backing off the A pedal will allow regen to kick in before you even get to the brake pedal. But for long stretches of coasting under predictable conditions shifting to neutral is easier, although one does have to remember to shift back to D or Eco when adjusting speed, which is just a matter of practice.

Nevertheless, it is possible to drive fairly efficiently by just being gentle with the A pedal in Eco. First one has to get over the notion that the A pedal has two positions: "stomped" and "off". Just learning that is the first step to driving efficiently; it requires anticipation of traffic and road conditions ahead rather than reacting abruptly at the last minute. Nissan doesn't need to automate this, it is up to the driver to learn to do it. Or not.

IMHO, of course.

 

[thankyouOB]

i explore n and eco with optimization of bubble at neutral, too, as well as coasting up to lights. it drives my family crazy.
they basically think i am that lunatic old man who holds up the traffic on city streets.
i try to reduce those techniques if they are in the car.

i have to say, it makes me equally nuts to ride around with any of the three of them women, who seem to enjoy standing at stoplights, as they are often in a hurry to get to one.

 

[Stoaty]

i have to say, it makes me equally nuts to ride around with any of the three of them women, who seem to enjoy standing at stoplights, as they are often in a hurry to get to one.

Yes, I have noticed that the vast majority of people enjoy waiting at lights. I prefer not to stop at them, and can usually limit my stops to about 20-30% of the stop lights (and most of those stops are pretty brief). I believe occasionally they may get a small advantage in time using the "rush to wait" technique, but on the other hand I often arrive ahead of the "rushers" from my work that drive down Canoga Avenue. They are simultaneously amazed that I would drive so "slow" and nonplussed when I arrive before they do.

 

[edatoakrun]

="dgpcolorado

...it is possible to drive fairly efficiently by just being gentle with the A pedal in Eco. First one has to get over the notion that the A pedal has two positions: "stomped" and "off". Just learning that is the first step to driving efficiently; it requires anticipation of traffic and road conditions ahead rather than reacting abruptly at the last minute. Nissan doesn't need to automate this, it is up to the driver to learn to do it. Or not.

IMHO, of course.

I rarely shift out of ECO in my own driving, which always includes large ascents and descents

I have a regular trip of ~87 miles and ~5,000 ft of both ascent and descent, which I have extended to almost 113 miles and about 6,000 ft of ascent and descent, when doing maximum range tests, all 100% in ECO.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very soon after I got my LEAF I learned that the possible efficiency benefits of using neutral were negligible, as compared to the convenience and (also slight, IMO) safety advantages of using "go-pedal neutral".

When you aren't using the friction brakes, most of your LEAF's ascent and acceleration energy is recovered without cycling through regen, even in ECO, so the efficiency benefits of avoiding regen in neutral, may actually be exceeded by the friction losses from the higher speeds when coasting, under most driving conditions.

Back on-topic. My recommended approach for efficiency on-highway?

Drive slower, and also watch your rear view mirror, and adjust your speed to traffic as necessary, so as not to inconvenience other drivers.

 

[jlsoaz]

...I think there are various good arguments for the idea that staying in gear helps with safety, and I was glad that Ray spoke up on this point...

I think it is worth reiterating that the LEAF doesn't have a transmission or "gears" in any usual sense of the term. Dropping a shift because one is in neutral and can't get the car back in gear isn't an issue with a LEAF. "Shifting" in a LEAF is just tweaking the magnetic fields in the motor; neutral is no field in either direction. There really is no comparison with an ICE car transmission, especially when it comes to safety.

Yes, this does seem worth going over. For one thing, assuming you've stated the matter accurately, then this would seem to eliminate most of the safety concern as compared to a typical HCV.

If you really feel uncomfortable using the neutral setting in the LEAF you can get the same results by feathering the accelerator in Eco so that your energy screen graph shows 0 kW. Holding the A pedal in that position will keep the car in "neutral" regardless of terrain or speed (I think that was a nice touch by Nissan engineers). Then if something comes up and you want to slow, backing off the A pedal will allow regen to kick in before you even get to the brake pedal. But for long stretches of coasting under predictable conditions shifting to neutral is easier, although one does have to remember to shift back to D or Eco when adjusting speed, which is just a matter of practice.

This is the first I've heard (that I recall) a recommendation for this practice of holding the A pedal to an effective neutral energy output, so I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, though I reckon I"ve spent a bit of time looking at the button lights to try to stay aware of my traction energy expenditure seems too high, but why is it more difficult than shifting to neutral for long predictable stretches?

Assuming the reason is that it requires a bit of a fine touch and is a bit laborious successfully hold in effective-neutral for the stretch, then your view that automation is not required might be slightly off... perhaps Nissan engineers could make it slightly easier to succeed in feathering the pedal (maybe we should call it the "power control pedal"?) so that it remains in neutral with no effort throughout long stretches, if that is what is desired? This would be (or would complete) de facto automation of the feature. It might also be a slight safety improvement (aside from not having to shift, it might help drivers keep an eye and their mind on the road rather than on the dash). On the other hand, there could be safety concerns as fiddling with pedal and the driver's understanding of what is going on.

Side-question - even if the dashboard seems to indicate zero energy expenditure when the pedal is in this 0 kw position, are we certain that it is completely zero traction-related energy? Are there minute acceleration or regen energy flows that fall below the threshold levels of the onboard measurement?

Well, I'll give it a try, thanks for mentioning this point (or re-mentioning, if it has been mentioned in this thread already and I just didn't process it properly).

Nevertheless, it is possible to drive fairly efficiently by just being gentle with the A pedal in Eco. First one has to get over the notion that the A pedal has two positions: "stomped" and "off". Just learning that is the first step to driving efficiently; it requires anticipation of traffic and road conditions ahead rather than reacting abruptly at the last minute. Nissan doesn't need to automate this, it is up to the driver to learn to do it. Or not.

IMHO, of course.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...This is the first I've heard (that I recall) a recommendation for this practice of holding the A pedal to an effective neutral energy output, so I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, though I reckon I"ve spent a bit of time looking at the button lights to try to stay aware of my traction energy expenditure seems too high, but why is it more difficult than shifting to neutral for long predictable stretches?

Assuming the reason is that it requires a bit of a fine touch and is a bit laborious successfully hold in effective-neutral for the stretch, then your view that automation is not required might be slightly off... perhaps Nissan engineers could make it slightly easier to succeed in feathering the pedal (maybe we should call it the "power control pedal"?) so that it remains in neutral with no effort throughout long stretches, if that is what is desired? This would be (or would complete) de facto automation of the feature. It might also be a slight safety improvement (aside from not having to shift, it might help drivers keep an eye and their mind on the road rather than on the dash). On the other hand, there could be safety concerns as fiddling with pedal and the driver's understanding of what is going on.

Yes, it is a bit more difficult to hold neutral on the A pedal than to just shift to neutral and be done with it. But creating a wider neutral position on the pedal is trickier than it sounds because it would create a "flat spot" in the smooth change from power to regen. Nissan was trying to get a feel that drivers of conventional vehicles would not find too off-putting but that would allow more efficient driving than the very aggressive mapping of the pedal in "D". Could it be improved for hypermiling use? Probably. But how many LEAF owners really know and understand hypermiling? I'd guess very few.

You can think of the difference between shifting to neutral and using the A pedal at neutral as the difference between using cruise control and just feathering the A pedal yourself to hold a constant speed. If one is going to coast for a significant distance shifting to neutral is easier, just as using cruise control is easier for constant speed driving for long stretches.

Side-question - even if the dashboard seems to indicate zero energy expenditure when the pedal is in this 0 kw position, are we certain that it is completely zero traction-related energy? Are there minute acceleration or regen energy flows that fall below the threshold levels of the onboard measurement?

I don't know. It is possible that it doesn't represent true zero power use as shifting to neutral does but it seems to be pretty close. For a record breaking hypermiler like LEAFfan, that difference might be significant. For those of us just trying to drive fairly efficiently in daily life, it is likely good enough. I mentioned it because you indicated a reluctance to use neutral for coasting. I can't promise that it is a perfect alternative.

Since I live in a mountainous area, I use constant adjustment of the A pedal from power to regen to control my speed for safety purposes, as well as some braking because the LEAF doesn't have enough regen for steep hills—coasting down a 14% grade into a hairpin turn is not an option! That is very different from hypermiling under benign road conditions. There are only a few spots where shifting to neutral is practical or safe where I live. But I use it when I can.

 

[jlsoaz]

...Are there minute acceleration or regen energy flows that fall below the threshold levels of the onboard measurement?

I don't know. It is possible that it doesn't represent true zero power use as shifting to neutral does but it seems to be pretty close. For a record breaking hypermiler like LEAFfan, that difference might be significant. For those of us just trying to drive fairly efficiently in daily life, it is likely good enough. I mentioned it because you indicated a reluctance to use neutral for coasting. I can't promise that it is a perfect alternative.

Since I live in a mountainous area, I use constant adjustment of the A pedal from power to regen to control my speed for safety purposes, as well as some braking because the LEAF doesn't have enough regen for steep hills—coasting down a 14% grade into a hairpin turn is not an option! That is very different from hypermiling under benign road conditions. There are only a few spots where shifting to neutral is practical or safe where I live. But I use it when I can.

Thanks I tried this tonight. Of course I've already been driving with some attention to the power expenditure lights on the top of the main dash, and trying to drive in a way that keeps them moderate, but I also turned on the Energy Info on the middle console display, which gives a more exact real-time reading. There does appear to be a sweet-spot there where one is at zero power, I don't know if this is right. It's also definitely not safe for me to spend so much time looking at this.

Anyway, it sounds to me that overall it would be good to have some sort of increased driver ability to control for constant power delivery (specifically - zero) as well as constant speed (already have it in the cruise control). I tentatively disagree with the contention that it is not useful for Nissan engineers to try to automate and fool-proof some of this a bit further, especially if there could be dramatic energy savings for those of us who are not hyper-miling hobbyists, and especially if it could result in a significant improvement in the vehicle's legal/official range statements.

Living in a mountainous area - I'd describe this area as mildly mountainous. I'm generally very aware of changes in altitude.

I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine about this whole matter. She described taking their family truck back in the day when they were of high school age and then having only enough money for one gallon of gas, and then having to coast home. They'd get the truck to about 80 up and over a crest and then go sort of downhill for most or all of the other 6 miles of highway between my town and hers, ending up at about 40 mph, but able to make it home. Her family found out and one of them was a lawman and he said the reason it was illegal and unsafe was that the brakes could cut out (in that particular truck) if the power cut out. I guess another opinion heard-from.

 

[edatoakrun]

...I also turned on the Energy Info on the middle console display, which gives a more exact real-time reading. There does appear to be a sweet-spot there where one is at zero power, I don't know if this is right. It's also definitely not safe for me to spend so much time looking at this.

Anyway, it sounds to me that overall it would be good to have some sort of increased driver ability to control for constant power delivery (specifically - zero) as well as constant speed (already have it in the cruise control). I tentatively disagree with the contention that it is not useful for Nissan engineers to try to automate and fool-proof some of this a bit further, especially if there could be dramatic energy savings for those of us who are not hyper-miling hobbyists...

I suspect many drivers who have large ascents and descents daily are in the habit of using the energy display as their default nav screen setting.

I think you will quickly pick up the pedal feel of near-neutral for one pedal driving, and glance at the screen less and less. So IMO, this is far less of a safety issue than that caused by driving in N, with the distraction of shifting, and the delay in acceleration when required.

On the broader question, I am very skeptical of the claims of advocates of coasting in N as producing significant efficiency gains, as there really is no way to test this theory. Most who advocate the use of N do not seem to acknowledge the efficiency drawbacks inherent in this practice.

Allowing your LEAF's kinetic energy and the road grade to determine your speed, or "coasting", invariably results in varying your speed significantly.

If you want to minimize the energy loss to air resistance to travel any given distance over any given time, maintaining as close to constant speed as conditions permit is optimal. And this of course requires using the accelerator/regen pedal.

I always drive in ECO, and do anticipate my future kW needs to maintain as near-neutral energy use as conditions permit, and avoid the brake pedal whenever I can.

But I also have no qualms about accepting the "inefficient" regen energy from a descent rather, than losing it to friction with the atmosphere, when maintaining my desired speed descending a grade. And I don't worry if I have to apply kW to maintain my desired (safe and efficient) speed in all other road conditions.

 

[Nubo]

i have to say, it makes me equally nuts to ride around with any of the three of them women, who seem to enjoy standing at stoplights, as they are often in a hurry to get to one.

Yes, I have noticed that the vast majority of people enjoy waiting at lights. I prefer not to stop at them, and can usually limit my stops to about 20-30% of the stop lights (and most of those stops are pretty brief). I believe occasionally they may get a small advantage in time using the "rush to wait" technique, but on the other hand I often arrive ahead of the "rushers" from my work that drive down Canoga Avenue. They are simultaneously amazed that I would drive so "slow" and nonplussed when I arrive before they do.

I definitely have no desire to use energy to arrive early at a stop light. Unfortunately a lot of intersections in this area have a priority direction and the cross traffic never gets a green light unless intersection road sensors are triggered. I guess it saves fuel overall, but does tend to reward drivers for rushing up to the intersection.

 

[LEAFfan]

Very soon after I got my LEAF I learned that the possible efficiency benefits of using neutral were negligible, as compared to the convenience and (also slight, IMO) safety advantages of using "go-pedal neutral".
When you aren't using the friction brakes, most of your LEAF's ascent and acceleration energy is recovered without cycling through regen, even in ECO, so the efficiency benefits of avoiding regen in neutral, may actually be exceeded by the friction losses from the higher speeds when coasting, under most driving conditions.

For me, and I'm sure for you, you can't feather the pedal in N for any distance. It is very difficult to keep it there such as 'N' does. And there's no way that regen gives you enough back on level terrain
as N does. Only using regen on steep hills or mountains is regen better and safer. You must have missed the posts about this last year when your theory was disproven. Again, when you obtain 6.8 m/kW h with your methods, please post.

 

[edatoakrun]

...You must have missed the posts about this last year when your theory was disproven. Again, when you obtain 6.8 m/kW h with your methods, please post.

I don't follow what you are saying. What "theory" do you believe has been "disproven"?

I expect we all can, and do, get ~6.8 m/kWh in ECO the same way you did while shifting in and out of N, simply by driving slowly on a relatively level road on a relatively warm day. If you have any evidence that indicates otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

I don't expect I'll ever try to drive at low speed obstructing traffic, taking the amount of time required to drive that slowly over a full charge.

How many hours did a full-charge "6.8 m/kWh" trip take you?

 

[jlsoaz]

(...)On the broader question, I am very skeptical of the claims of advocates of coasting in N as producing significant efficiency gains, as there really is no way to test this theory. Most who advocate the use of N do not seem to acknowledge the efficiency drawbacks inherent in this practice.

Allowing your LEAF's kinetic energy and the road grade to determine your speed, or "coasting", invariably results in varying your speed significantly.

If you want to minimize the energy loss to air resistance to travel any given distance over any given time, maintaining as close to constant speed as conditions permit is optimal. And this of course requires using the accelerator/regen pedal.

I always drive in ECO, and do anticipate my future kW needs to maintain as near-neutral energy use as conditions permit, and avoid the brake pedal whenever I can.

But I also have no qualms about accepting the "inefficient" regen energy from a descent rather, than losing it to friction with the atmosphere, when maintaining my desired speed descending a grade. And I don't worry if I have to apply kW to maintain my desired (safe and efficient) speed in all other road conditions.

Hi - I am in LEAFfan's camp on the efficiency question. The basic science of it seems pretty clear in my view - less waste in coasting than in cycling between acceleration and regen, and it looks to me that LEAFfan and others have spent some time verifying this, so some empirical work has been done, though I don't know if a proper scientific paper has been done (might be a really interesting idea for an undergrad or higher project?)

Also - Isn't coasting in neutral one of the old (decades old?) methods of the hypermiler gasoline burners, such as in contests?

I'm not sure what theory LEAFfan is referencing, but it sounds like they've been doing a lot of miles and writing on this topic, so it may just be a matter of looking through the forum for a bit more background.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

wow, i cannot believe the "neutral" question is still a question.

even if the results of ones who use the technique is not enough what about "YOUR" impression?

we all know what it feels like driving a LEAF with a full battery. all of a sudden it seems like the car speeds UP when taking foot off accelerator because our minds expecting that regen slowdown are surprised when there is no slowdown

when have you ever in eco or drive felt that complete "free wheeling" feeling?

ok, its never. you only feel it in two situations; on a full battery and when in neutral

 

[TonyWilliams]

wow, i cannot believe the "neutral" question is still a question.

even if the results of ones who use the technique is not enough what about "YOUR" impression?

Every new LEAF owner wants to be educated on the car, but only a few must be "proven" (and everything that was done previous doesn't count).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

wow, i cannot believe the "neutral" question is still a question.

even if the results of ones who use the technique is not enough what about "YOUR" impression?

Every new LEAF owner wants to be educated on the car, but only a few must be "proven" (and everything that was done previous doesn't count).

maybe so but i think step one of the "desire" is to get rid of all the baggage you brought with you on your old car