Range on a new 2014 Leaf

[mkjayakumar]

With 1000 miles on board and about 3 weeks since I picked it up, had an opportunity to charge it fully and run it down to VLB, and I should I say I am pretty impressed with the range.

Conditions, 70F, very windy with 25 mph.
Climate control : off
Distance traveled : 82 miles from 100% to VLBW
Efficiency: 4.0 miles / kWh
Speed: between high 68 to 72 mph for about 65 miles, and the rest 17 miles around 35 mph.
Starting GIDs 284 and ending GIDs 24 when it hit VLB
GOM still had 8 miles left at VLB and I am pretty sure I could have gone another 8 miles to turtle maintaining speeds of around 55 mph. That is 90 miles to turtle with most of the driving at highway speeds in excess of 65 mph.

Carwings says 20.5 kWh used (see below), which I guess matches quite well from 100% to VLB.

I was also quite impressed with how the GOM tracked quite nicely starting with 90 miles at 100% charge and getting down to 8 miles after traveling 82 miles. Almost for every mile driven the GOM steadily decreased by 1. I am guessing as the battery degrades, then the fact that GOM still starts with 90 (or worse 100) and does not take the degradation into account makes it highly over optimistic and useless. So the GOM seems to be *pretty* accurate for a new battery.

If only Nissan can arrest the degradation and keep it under control, this is one amazing car. With my 2nd lease I am even more impressed.

My excitement is tempered with the realization that degradation is just around the corner as the temps hit 80F and above in about two months, and then my 284 will steadily decrease by a Gid every week, and when the temps hit 100+ it will lose almost a GID every other day losing around 30 Gids end of this year and another 30 Gids by end of next year before the lease is over.

 

[DanCar]

The hot battery should be available in May. I say that for two reasons:
1. Nissan previously said they would be done testing in April.
2. Nissan delayed production of e-nv200 for new battery and e-nv200 will be produced starting in May.
But there is some evidence that starting March 2013 the leafs received an updated battery that probably does better in hot weather.
https://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generation-battery-is-coming-online-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I get 94 mile range on my 2013, but drive under 62 mph with some city driving.

 

[adric22]

I can't really explain this.. We just bought a 2013 a few weeks ago after driving a 2011 for 3 years. Our 2011 had lost 2 bars and according to Leafspy it had 78% of its capacity. But I swear, it feels like this 2013 has twice as much range. Now, I don't have any scientific way of justifying that claim other than the number of SOC bars we would lose on any given trip compared to the last car. Even remember how the 2011 was when it was brand new, it just seems the 2013 can go further.

 

[GregH]

Any Ah or Hx numbers for these batteries?
I recall having a 2013 rental that consistently hit 284 Gids with 67.3620Ah capacity but over the 3 summer months I had it I saw the Hx value drop from about 110% to 104%. From what I've gathered elsewhere around here the 284Gids/67.362Ah starts dipping when Hx gets down to around 101 or 102% (??) Since Gids seem to be capped at 284 and capacity at 67.362, Hx might be the only measure of a real super battery.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I can't really explain this.. We just bought a 2013 a few weeks ago after driving a 2011 for 3 years. Our 2011 had lost 2 bars and according to Leafspy it had 78% of its capacity. But I swear, it feels like this 2013 has twice as much range. Now, I don't have any scientific way of justifying that claim other than the number of SOC bars we would lose on any given trip compared to the last car. Even remember how the 2011 was when it was brand new, it just seems the 2013 can go further.

i can explain it. your previous LEAF only went to 281, your new one goes to 284. they basically allowed more access to the same capacity or a bump in capacity. why did they not mention this? well actually they did. the EPA rating went up right?
They admitted to changes that would enhance driving range by changing the power profile, etc... but

Like you, I am POSITIVELY convinced that my 2013 has more range and without doing anything different (mostly because I don't have time) other than the same amount of driving, I am stopping for a public boost about 3 times a month now. drove 82 miles the other day with 75% freeway (60-65 mph) and had 12 on GOM left IN THE WINTER TIME... that trip was completely undoable in the 2011 without going past VLB. I hit LBW about a mile before the end of the trip. I had 13 miles on LEAF SPY to a 4% reserve, so pretty confident I could have gone over 90 miles easy.

FYI; I do not have advanced heater or anything like that. Just a plain old S which Nissan marketing did their best to emphasize that anyone taking an S would miss out on some very wonderful features on the SV/SL but will say my S heats up much better than my top of the line 2011 SL ever did

 

[cwerdna]

FYI; I do not have advanced heater or anything like that. Just a plain old S which Nissan marketing did their best to emphasize that anyone taking an S would miss out on some very wonderful features on the SV/SL but will say my S heats up much better than my top of the line 2011 SL ever did

I did start a thread at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15750" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; asking about the heaters in the '13+ Leafs vs. the pre-13 Leafs.

From your statement, it sure sounds like there's been some redesign of the heater portion of the HVAC system, even on the '13 S trim.

 

[adric22]

i can explain it. your previous LEAF only went to 281, your new one goes to 284. they basically allowed more access to the same capacity or a bump in capacity. why did they not mention this? well actually they did. the EPA rating went up right?

I'd otherwise believe all of that.. except didn't somebody on this forum do a range test with a 2013 and determine it had no more range than the 2011/2012?

 

[epirali]

i can explain it. your previous LEAF only went to 281, your new one goes to 284. they basically allowed more access to the same capacity or a bump in capacity. why did they not mention this? well actually they did. the EPA rating went up right?

I'd otherwise believe all of that.. except didn't somebody on this forum do a range test with a 2013 and determine it had no more range than the 2011/2012?

Yes, there were a few tests here and elsewhere showing no change from 2012 to 2013 if all other parameters were the same. Obviously the heater power draw was not included.

 

[Stanton]

The hot battery should be available in May. I say that for two reasons:
1. Nissan previously said they would be done testing in April.
2. Nissan delayed production of e-nv200 for new battery and e-nv200 will be produced starting in May.

Now that's what I like to hear! Maybe this "hot pack" battery has more to it than we think?

 

[DanCar]

I'd otherwise believe all of that.. except didn't somebody on this forum do a range test with a 2013 and determine it had no more range than the 2011/2012?

Yes, there were a few tests here and elsewhere showing no change from 2012 to 2013 if all other parameters were the same. Obviously the heater power draw was not included.

Also the range test didn't test real world usage of regen brake which was improved.
I wonder if the tests were done after the battery change in March.
http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generation-battery-is-coming-online-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i can explain it. your previous LEAF only went to 281, your new one goes to 284. they basically allowed more access to the same capacity or a bump in capacity. why did they not mention this? well actually they did. the EPA rating went up right?

I'd otherwise believe all of that.. except didn't somebody on this forum do a range test with a 2013 and determine it had no more range than the 2011/2012?

yep, pretty sure someone did (probably Tony) and it was concluded from "a" test that there is no significant range improvement based on the test implemented.

but I am guessing that this won't be the last time that end user experiences discovered something testing did not

 

[adric22]

You know.. I highly suspect the main difference could just be the way the GOM and SOC bars work. I never ran my old Leaf down to the LBW more than once or twice. But I found that it often had more power available in the last few bars than the rest of them. It also seemed that the GOM was overly pessimistic at times and overly optimistic at others. As such, there was probably a lot of extra range on my 2011 that I was never tapping into because it didn't give me proper readings.

Of course, I also realize the cold-weather performance on my 2013 is much better for a variety of reasons.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

You know.. I highly suspect the main difference could just be the way the GOM and SOC bars work. I never ran my old Leaf down to the LBW more than once or twice. But I found that it often had more power available in the last few bars than the rest of them. It also seemed that the GOM was overly pessimistic at times and overly optimistic at others. As such, there was probably a lot of extra range on my 2011 that I was never tapping into because it didn't give me proper readings.

Of course, I also realize the cold-weather performance on my 2013 is much better for a variety of reasons.

I would have not made a comment if that was all I had to go on. It is a VERY easy thing to do do manipulate the GOM, miles/kwh, etc. I have a pix posted here a few years ago showing me at 14-15 miles/kwh... not hard to do. don't even remember the exact number because it was sooo invalid...

My LEAF Spy allows to custom set my range estimate and its pretty close. I have basically two settings and they are rain/no rain. temps play a bit part but have yet to use LEAF Spy during the heat of Summer so may have a 3rd setting soon. As far as improvements in Winter heating, etc? I almost never used heat in the 2011. I use it MUCH more now than I ever did despite having seat heaters and what not. I simply don't use my heated jacket very much any more.

Another thing is the lack of real monitoring equipment in the early days of LEAF I. I very could have had more range than i thought in the beginning and I may soon be back to the "normal" range I had with LEAF I very soon. So all these range statements simply could be premature. All this I have considered. so right now, its all still very prelim and all that but I am not alone in my initial impressions here

 

[TonyWilliams]

We've gone through this every year with the LEAF; there's a cadre of "believers" who need to believe that the new LEAF has super awesome-o range over the previous year.

The difference between 281 GID and 284 is 3 * 80 = 240 wattHours, or about one mile of extra range.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

We've gone through this every year with the LEAF; there's a cadre of "believers" who need to believe that the new LEAF has super awesome-o range over the previous year.

The difference between 281 GID and 284 is 3 * 80 = 240 wattHours, or about one mile of extra range.

not sure I would categorize an extra 3-5 miles as "super awesome"

 

[Deleted member 9549]

We've gone through this every year with the LEAF; there's a cadre of "believers" who need to believe that the new LEAF has super awesome-o range over the previous year.

The difference between 281 GID and 284 is 3 * 80 = 240 wattHours, or about one mile of extra range.

Doing a test at one highway speed from full till empty is just one way to test the range of a vehicle.

It clearly does not account for the significantly improved brake regen in the 2013-2014 over prior years. The torque curve is also different which is intended to improve efficiency in stop and go traffic.

 

[JeremyW]

You know.. I highly suspect the main difference could just be the way the GOM and SOC bars work. I never ran my old Leaf down to the LBW more than once or twice. But I found that it often had more power available in the last few bars than the rest of them. It also seemed that the GOM was overly pessimistic at times and overly optimistic at others. As such, there was probably a lot of extra range on my 2011 that I was never tapping into because it didn't give me proper readings.

Of course, I also realize the cold-weather performance on my 2013 is much better for a variety of reasons.

After living with a bar loss for two months I can see the outrage that many AZ owners delt with when they first started loosing bars. The charge bars get really non-linear and pessimistic. If I didn't have a GID meter I'd be royally pissed. On an 80% charge (9 charge bars), the first bar will go "slowly" (6 miles or so) the next 4 will go faster (4 miles or less? hard to tell...), then the last 4 will go much more slowly. Obviously this varies quite a bit depending on how hard I'm driving the car but the "pattern" is fairly predictable. I usually have 3 or 4 charge bars when I hit 100 gids/ 46% state of charge (NOT percent gids). I've basically started using only my Leaf DD these days for determining range. I don't really use the GOM except to get a gauge on the last 30 seconds of driving on the highway. My commute is currently only 12 miles round trip. My Ah is currently 54.7, health is 84%, Hx is 68%.

 

[OrientExpress]

I have a loaner 2014 SL, and just did my standard range tests, and what I got was very similar to the 2013 tests I did on a prototype SL in February last year.

City speed test (40 mph level road, ambient temp 50, cruise control on) 113 miles to VLB (2013 turned 109 for the same course, same time of year)
Highway speed test (65 mph level road, ambient temp 60, cruise control on) 80 miles to VLB. (2013 turned 76 for the same course, same time of year.)

This was with the climate control on, but AC and heater off. Drive settings, B mode, eco.

The pad between VLB and Turtle seems to be about 5~8 miles.

 

[stjohnh]

I have a loaner 2014 SL.......

The pad between VLB and Turtle seems to be about 5~8 miles.

Did you drive to turtle? If not, why do you say that the distance from VLB to turtle is 5-8 mi?

 

[mkjayakumar]

My observations and OE's match pretty well.

Now Tony's test proves that the battery capacity is the same in '14 as in every previous year model. Now are there improvements that will give a higher range in city conditions ? Maybe.

End of the day I think a new Leaf has got enough range for most of us to get around daily chores without any range anxiety - until you hit the first summer and then it goes downhill the subsequent summers, not to mention the very cold days.

When I tell someone that you have 75 to 80 miles of range comfortably in summer, almost everyone is impressed, until I get to the part about battery degradation.