Proposed Bay Area-Truckee trip- DID IT :-)

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stjohnh

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
363
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Hi Guys, My daughter recently moved from Palo Alto to Truckee and I was thinking of taking my Leaf to visit. This is my proposed trip:
Palo Alto->SoS.F. 27mi QC to 80%
So.S.F->Vacaville 63mi QCto 80%
Vacaville->Davis 21mi QCto 80%
Davis->Auburn 48mi, 1200' climb, dinner, 1hr L2
Auburn->Colfax(el 2400') 17mi, 1200' climb, overnight L2 to 100%.
Colfax->Truckee 53 mi. 42mi from Colfax to peak elevation 7000' then 10mi descent to Truckee(el 5800)

LEAFer made the following comments (next 3 paragraphs):
Sacramento to Colfax: 52.6 miles and 2,500 climb. Conservatively estimate 7 extra miles needed per 1,000 foot climb or about 17 miles. Meaning a total of 70 miles "consumed". That will be tight, but at 55mph in the right lane quite doable. (This is just an example. You're probably better off doing a stop in Auburn after doing a QC in Davis or Elk Grove, before doing the final leg for the day to Colfax. Remember also that the QC will be very slow to get from around 85% to 100% and heat the battery.)

Colfax to Truckee: Also 52.1 miles, but 4,700 foot climb to get to Donner Summit (before you can "coast" into Truckee on a 1,200 feet descent. The 7 miles per 1,000 is rough and conservative, but this extra 32.9 miles (7 * 4.7) needed for the climb will make for some "anxiety". There are estimates of 1.3kWh/1,000 climb which translates to "only" 4.55 miles/1,000 at 3.5miles/kWh efficiency. Much better, of course, but for planning purposes I would not trust the 4.55 number. In addition, the actual practical experience of doing it ... results in nervous eyes watching the GOM as it drops precipitously during the continuous climb. You'll need to know very precisely how many miles left to get to Donner Summit.

Reverse: On a downhill like this I would count on getting back "only" 3 miles (it might turn into 4) per 1,000 descent -- especially at the beginning when regen is limited. So, from the Summit (7,200) to Sacramento: about 25 miles gained. Thus you should easily make Sacramento ( I would still travel 55mph ). But for practical purposes, you'll be stopping earlier to pick up some juice (Colfax, Auburn, Roseville, etc). Also Elk Grove or Davis adds some distance to make the QC.

Anyway, the proposal seems reasonable to me if I don't try to 65 after leaving Davis (last QC), and should give minimal waiting time for charging (assuming open station).

What do you think? Got a better plan? What are the pitfalls?

BTW There is an RV park about 1/2 way from Colfax to Truckee that I could use if I really needed juice.
 
stjohnh said:
Palo Alto->SoS.F. 27mi QC to 80%
So.S.F->Vacaville 63mi QC to 80%
Click to expand...
63 miles of I-80 on less than 80%? I don't think so. I'd charge in Concord instead of SF. Starting from home with 100% you can easily get to Concord, probably best via Hayward and San Ramon.

The big thing to think about is charging points with no backup. Either SF or Concord is OK. Vacaville isn't. You would be better off stopping at the new one going in in Fairfield, and using Vacaville only as a backup. Davis again has only one QC, and you might get stuck there for three hours of L2 instead of 30 minutes of QC.

Colfax has a different problem. So far as I know, the only motel is on the north side of the freeway, and the charging stations (except at the railroad depot where I wouldn't dream of leaving my car overnight) are on the south side, and there is no path between them without a long detour. You're not going to be able to hail a cab, so you either talk the motel into picking you up or you have to walk more than a mile each way. Well, there is the off-chance that you could snake an extension cord from a 240v room air conditioner plugin. Obviously you can forget about L1 charging unless you plan to stay two nights.

Ray
 
Hmmm,

Ray's comment about Vacaville (too far from So.SF, no backup, and very popular=may have to wait) all seem valid, I like the Palo Alto->Concord->Davis plan he suggested better. (Perhaps a stop at Vacaville if open to ease the pain if by some chance Davis QC is unavailable)

As far as Colfax L2 overnight, one possibility might be use my Quick220 box at the motel to get L2 using my upgraded portable EVSE. Does anyone know if motel owners are usually agreeable to that?

I can't find any info on the QC going in at Fairfield. Is that at the Nissan dealer? and when is it likely to be functioning?

Revised plan:

Palo Alto->Concord 59mi QC to 80%
Concord->Davis 56mi QC to 80% (no backup QC there but Plugshare reports are no waiting problems)
Davis->Auburn 48mi, 1200' climb, dinner, 1hr L2
Auburn->Colfax(el 2400') 17mi, 1200' climb, overnight L2 to 100%. L2 possibly at Amtrack (actually Chamber of Commerce) or possibly L2 at motel via Quick220)
Colfax->Truckee 53 mi. 42mi from Colfax to peak elevation 7000' then 10mi descent to Truckee(el 5800)

How does that sound?
 
stjohnh said:
Hmmm...

(el 2400')...Colfax->Truckee 53 mi. 42mi from Colfax to peak elevation 7000'...

How does that sound?
Click to expand...

If you drive slowly enough, and also can keep your battery warm enough while charging and drive in not-too-cold ambient, it could be done in a 2011, and should be a bit easier in a 2013.

Problem is, you are running out of warm weather this year.

Chance of Snow in Truckee tomorrow, but relatively warm for the week starting this weekend...

http://classic.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Truckee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, California&wuSelect=WEATHER

="stjohnh"

BTW There is an RV park about 1/2 way from Colfax to Truckee that I could use if I really needed juice
Click to expand...
.

Might want to consider ~ an hour of L2. I have never wanted to pull high KW from much below the LBW myself, which you might find yourself doing near the summit, unless you drive very slowly.
 
edatoakrun said:
stjohnh said:
BTW There is an RV park about 1/2 way from Colfax to Truckee that I could use if I really needed juice.
Click to expand...
Might want to consider ~ an hour of L2. I have never wanted to pull high KW from much below the LBW myself, which you might find yourself doing near the summit, unless you drive very slowly.
Click to expand...
Good idea. Also ... call ahead and make sure the RV park is a) operational; b) has "50 amp service". ( Note: RV parks often don't know what you are talking about when you say "240 volts". ) If they say they only have "30amp service" then it is 120V (oops). If you own a Quick220, though, that problem is solvable as well, except it will be limited to 15A (if I recall ... see quick220.com) and you have to spend time "hunting" for two (sort of)closely spaced out-of-phase 120V circuits .

Good luck and report back :)
 
LEAFer said:
edatoakrun said:
stjohnh said:
BTW There is an RV park about 1/2 way from Colfax to Truckee that I could use if I really needed juice.
Click to expand...
Might want to consider ~ an hour of L2. I have never wanted to pull high KW from much below the LBW myself, which you might find yourself doing near the summit, unless you drive very slowly.
Click to expand...
Good idea. Also ... call ahead and make sure the RV park is a) operational; b) has "50 amp service". ( Note: RV parks often don't know what you are talking about when you say "240 volts". ) If they say they only have "30amp service" then it is 120V (oops). If you own a Quick220, though, that problem is solvable as well, except it will be limited to 15A (if I recall ... see quick220.com) and you have to spend time "hunting" for two (sort of)closely spaced out-of-phase 120V circuits .

Good luck and report back :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the good suggestions. Cisco Grove RV park (11 miles this side of summit, el 5600') is open all year and has 50 amp service.

I may check my Gids and SOC when I get to Cisco Grove to decide if I want a stop there. Colfax to summit is 42mi+4800' climb= 75mi equivalent on flat at 4.5mi/kwh (about 45-48mph). I get exactly 100mi to turtle on my car from 100%, and LBW is at 75mi under those conditions for me, that would put my battery right at LBW when I reached the summit. If numbers look good when I reach Cisco Grove, I may skip the L2 1h boost there.
 
Oh, I forgot: I was thinking battery temp would not be a problem if I travel in October, since driving from Palo Alto to Sacramento with several QCs likely put my battery around 85 degrees when I reach Colfax. It will be cold at night in Colfax, maybe about 30, but battery likely will start off from Colfax in the morning at above 60 degrees (actually I expect above 70), so shouldn't affect range much.

Battery will get cold when I spend the next day and night in Truckee, but only really have to climb the 1200' from Truckee to the summit, then coast to Sacramento, during which battery will warm up, and more so when I QC in Davis on the way back to Palo Alto.
 
Hertz has a Model S rental in San Francisco. If you want to drive electric, this would make the trip much easier. If you decide to take the Leaf be sure to write about the trip. When I had my Leaf for sale, I had a buyer in Reno who really wanted the car, but the complications of the trip home made him pass. I came to the same route plan as you have in the original post. It's doable, but will require patients.
 
palmermd said:
Hertz has a Model S rental in San Francisco. If you want to drive electric, this would make the trip much easier. If you decide to take the Leaf be sure to write about the trip. When I had my Leaf for sale, I had a buyer in Reno who really wanted the car, but the complications of the trip home made him pass. I came to the same route plan as you have in the original post. It's doable, but will require patients.
Click to expand...

Well, I really want to take my Leaf, part adventure, part "see if unexpected problems," When I first started thinking about the trip a couple of months ago I was contemplating a leave in the morning, arrive in evening scenerio, but the only way I could see it was with 2 -3 hr L2 charges in the late afternoon, and total trip time of about 11 hours.... ugh. After re-thinking the plan to include a leave Palo Alto in the afternoon, and an overnight part way up the mountains (rather than arriving late at night and spending the night in Truckee), I realized I might be able to do the trip with only a total of 60-90 minutes waiting time (for QCs between Palo Alto and Sacramento) and adding a 1 hr dinner stop in Auburn (and L2 while there).
 
stjohnh said:
Well, I really want to take my Leaf, part adventure, part "see if unexpected problems," When I first started thinking about the trip a couple of months ago I was contemplating a leave in the morning, arrive in evening scenerio, but the only way I could see it was with 2 -3 hr L2 charges in the late afternoon, and total trip time of about 11 hours.... ugh. After re-thinking the plan to include a leave Palo Alto in the afternoon, and an overnight part way up the mountains (rather than arriving late at night and spending the night in Truckee), I realized I might be able to do the trip with only a total of 60-90 minutes waiting time (for QCs between Palo Alto and Sacramento) and adding a 1 hr dinner stop in Auburn (and L2 while there).
Click to expand...

I think you have a sound plan. Enjoy the adventure.
 
IIRR, there is a truck climbing lane that comes down at least as far as Colfax, so you can drive considerably slower than the speed limit if you don't mind being bracketed by semis. Also, there are side roads from Colfax up at least as far as Dutch Flat, and probably all the way to Alta.

Once you get to Cisco, there's a side road (Old Hwy 40) variously named Hampshire Rocks Road/Lincoln Hwy/Donner Pass Road that snakes from the north to the south side of I-80 and repeat, that will take you into Truckee as long as it isn't covered/closed by snow. If you go that way, be sure to stop at the bridge overlooking Donner Lake, and look back up at it from below too. But do it soon before it's closed for the season.
 
stjohnh said:
Revised plan:

Palo Alto->Concord 59mi QC to 80%
Concord->Davis 56mi QC to 80% (no backup QC there but Plugshare reports are no waiting problems)
Davis->Auburn 48mi, 1200' climb, dinner, 1hr L2
Auburn->Colfax(el 2400') 17mi, 1200' climb, overnight L2 to 100%. L2 possibly at Amtrack (actually Chamber of Commerce) or possibly L2 at motel via Quick220)
Colfax->Truckee 53 mi. 42mi from Colfax to peak elevation 7000' then 10mi descent to Truckee(el 5800)
Click to expand...

We did it !!! No big problems. Got to near turtle twice and max battery temp was 102.9 (7 temp bars) for a short time after our 2nd QC at Vacaville.

Went from Palo Alto to Concord and charged at Dirito Brothers Nissan, extra nice. I've charged at 8-10 different Nissan's in the Bay Area, and this was the nicest because: No need to ask where charger is (right in front of you as you drive in), very quick and easy fob autorization (Service manager right next to QC, swiped fob and plugged the charge handle in for me w/o prompting). I was literally charging within 60 seconds of driving in. 55-60 mph 4.7 mi/kwh

Next QC as planned at Sonic in Vacaville, no waiting no problems (except my wife's chili dog wasn't quite hot). Didn't have to stop there, but wanted food.

Next QC was top up at Davis, only 20 miles or so from Vacaville, but I was planning on going straight from Davis to Colfax (when I checked the status of the charge stations in Auburn, they were either down, not on Blink/Chargepoint, or too far from restaurant).

Arrived in Colfax on sparks (4.6% SOC on LeafSpy, 7 Gids, estimated 2.5miles before turtle). Charged overnight (free) at the Amtrak/Chamber of Commerce) L2 to 100 %. We had 3 adults(about 480 pounds + 100 pounds luggage and charging accessories). 45mph up hills, 55 down.

Up hill section from Colfax to Donner pass, all on IH80, 45mph uphill, 55 down dips. Got to Donner pass ( 42 miles + 4600 feet net climb) a little below LWB with 8 miles left on GOM, 25% SOC, battery cooled off to 81.4F. "Coasted" to Truckee, arrived there w 25 mi on GOM.

After a nice weekend, left Truckee w 100%, didn't stop until we got to Davis for QC (134miles, in mountains went 55 on downhill, 45 on ups: after Auburn 55-60 until Davis) Got closer that I liked to turtle, because of 15 mile error in taking wrong turn. Arrived at Davis QC w 7.6% SOC, a little below VLBW.

QC to 60% at Davis, then 20 miles to Vacaville for QC to 90% and food (didn't get a chili dog this time, once burnt, twice cautious).

Drove all the way from Vacaville to Palo Alto, 95 miles, 55 on high way for most of way, about 20 miles off highway at 35-45 mph. Arrived home, again on sparks, at 5% SOC, estimated 2.5 miles from turtle.

Thanks for everyone's advice. Couldn't have done it without that, also LeafSpy and knowing that the May 2013 Leafs and newer have more miles below VLBW than other Leafs.
 
stjohnh said:
55-60 mph 4.7 mi/kwh
Click to expand...
I just don't understand how you guys get efficiencies like this. If I drive any significant distance at 55-60 mph, even on flat roads, I'm *lucky* if I can average 4.0mi/kWh. I've never gotten anything close to 4.7 at those speeds. What is your secret? I do all the standard things like no harsh accelerations, minimizing regen, coasting whenever possible, etc. I don't get it.
 
Hmmm. Good point, that is better than I usually get. There was very heavy traffic and frequent spells of 25-35 mph. I also might have had a tail-wind. At 55 on cruise control I usually get 4.2-4.4. I do have my tires at 44psi, maybe that helps.
 
palmermd said:
Glad you had a good trip. Congrats on joining the 100 mile club.
Click to expand...
Indeed, a very well executed trip!!! Congratulations.

However, one of TonyWilliam's rules for the 100 mile club is that you have to finish at the same or higher elevation than the starting point. I know because I did over 100 miles on a charge albeit with elevation loss!

Nevertheless, your trip report is impressive. :)
 

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