Progress of Nissan's Battery Plant in Smyrna, TN

[Becky50]

Thank you to everyone who contributes to this forum. So far my LEAF is meeting my needs and expectations thanks to all of the information I gleaned from this forum before actually purchasing in August 2012. I also would like to see the various threads stay on the topic they are titled to cover.
Becky

 

[Nubo]

Statik, thank you for trying to deal with wild speculation. This site is more and more acting negatively instead of supporting E V advancement. Nissan does make mistakes as we all do but they need to be given credit for being pioneers and going where no other major car company was willing to go

I agree. I have been thoroughly dismayed at how everyone was so enthusiastic on this site until just a few months ago when all of this battery stuff turned up. Then it is like everyone forgot about all of the risk and hard work that Nissan had put forward to bring this product to market.

That's exactly my qualm with Nissan. They had a group of super-enthusiastic early adopters, which is such a fantastic resource, and they just frittered it away. A senseless waste.

That being said, I still do applaud Nissan for taking the bold leap. And, I am really happy with my LEAF to date. I just with Nissan would stop shooting themselves in the foot. Which is why I am dismayed to see that they even fail to organize a scheduled event for the opening of this battery plant which is really a huge milestone. Can't reconcile schedules? Seriously? (I think this complaint is on-topic)

It's like rooting for your favorite baseball team. You want them to do their best. Which means you're one of their critics when they do something stupid.

I'd like to pick up a LEAF 2.0, or maybe an ESFLOW when my lease expires in 2015. So I'd really like Nissan to get their **** together.

 

[LEAFfan]

+1 It's more anti-ev than many of the politicians.

I guess you haven't read many of the threads. I haven't seen ANY anti-EV comments at all. What I have read is that Nissan isn't supporting and taking care of people with major and abnormal degradation. THAT'S the only 'anti' comments I've read. You must be reading a different forum than me.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

my loss of enthusiasm for Nissan is related to two things:
1) the fact that they have made it abundantly clear that they are making up the definition of "gradual" as they go and are doing little to assure they have our backs. when you leave customers out in the cold, everyone gets cold feet... marketing 101!!

2) I expected to see an incremental improvement in range within a few years and so far, I don't see any evidence that MY2013 is going to offer a bigger/denser battery, meanwhile, competitors are. I feel that improving range is the main thing that is going to make EV's marketable to the masses. My business is going to go with those who are out front in offering excellence and more range. If Nissan wants to keep me as a customer, they need to treat their customers well and improve the product, at the very least so that the "gradual" improvement in range exceeds the "gradual" loss that they consider normal!

Nissan still could get our confidence back, but they need to take a very different course in handling this whole battery degradation thing. Essentially, they need to warranty the battery, for real!

+1 It's more anti-ev than many of the politicians.

I guess you haven't read many of the threads. I haven't seen ANY anti-EV comments at all. What I have read is that Nissan isn't supporting and taking care of people with major and abnormal degradation. THAT'S the only 'anti' comments I've read. You must be reading a different forum than me.

 

[surfingslovak]

Thank you to everyone who contributes to this forum. So far my LEAF is meeting my needs and expectations thanks to all of the information I gleaned from this forum before actually purchasing in August 2012. I also would like to see the various threads stay on the topic they are titled to cover.
Becky

Becky, that you for your positive comment, it's good to keep things in perspective. I see that you are in South Bay. We have a very active local Leaf community, please consider joining us at one of our future meetups. There is a dedicated group on Facebook as well, if you were using it. Please check our website as well, if you haven't already.

 

[TomT]

+1

However, I'll give then until the 2014 MY for number 2 to come to fruition... If nothing significant come to pass then (and that means at least a 50% improvement to me), then I believe it is game over for Nissan in the U.S....

my loss of enthusiasm for Nissan is related to two things:
1) the fact that they have made it abundantly clear that they are making up the definition of "gradual" as they go and are doing little to assure they have our backs. when you leave customers out in the cold, everyone gets cold feet... marketing 101!!

2) I expected to see an incremental improvement in range within a few years and so far, I don't see any evidence that MY2013 is going to offer a bigger/denser battery, meanwhile, competitors are. I feel that improving range is the main thing that is going to make EV's marketable to the masses. My business is going to go with those who are out front in offering excellence and more range. If Nissan wants to keep me as a customer, they need to treat their customers well and improve the product, at the very least so that the "gradual" improvement in range exceeds the "gradual" loss that they consider normal!

Nissan still could get our confidence back, but they need to take a very different course in handling this whole battery degradation thing. Essentially, they need to warranty the battery, for real!

 

[Stanton]

+1
However, I'll give then until the 2014 MY for number 2 to come to fruition... If nothing significant come to pass then (and that means at least a 50% improvement to me), then I believe it is game over for Nissan in the U.S....

I'm sorry, but that's just a ridiculous statement. No matter which way you slice it, the Leaf has sold more units than any other BEV (ever) to date. Given Nissan's obvious commitment to this technology (name a single car manufacturer--Tesla included--who has dedicated more dealer resources than Nissan), I don't see a path to Nissan "pulling the plug".

 

[TomT]

You misread my comment. I meant it is game over for Nissan as far as *I* am concerned. In other words, they will no longer be considered by me for future EV purchases or for recommendations to others... This, of course, is aside from any other considerations and issues such as battery capacity, TMS, etc...

+1
However, I'll give then until the 2014 MY for number 2 to come to fruition... If nothing significant come to pass then (and that means at least a 50% improvement to me), then I believe it is game over for Nissan in the U.S....

I'm sorry, but that's just a ridiculous statement. No matter which way you slice it, the Leaf has sold more units than any other BEV (ever) to date. Given Nissan's obvious commitment to this technology (name a single car manufacturer--Tesla included--who has dedicated more dealer resources than Nissan), I don't see a path to Nissan "pulling the plug".

 

[Herm]

1) the fact that they have made it abundantly clear that they are making up the definition of "gradual" as they go
2) I expected to see an incremental improvement in range within a few years

I think gradual and abrupt are fairly well understood, batteries wear out.. sometimes faster than expected. The manual is pretty clear on that. Losing 10% capacity in the first year under abuse is gradual.. losing that in one day would be abrupt. The warranty is what it is, take it or leave it.

I would not be surprised if the new batteries coming out of Smyrna are the new NMC chemistry they have been talking about, with 30% more capacity. Its a new factory, start with the new chemistry. They could even offer the stripper Leaf with 24kWh and the higher models with 36kWh, all using the same cells.

 

[edatoakrun]

You misread my comment...

Actually, I'd say you misstated the opinion in your original comment.

Which you have now corrected.

Not that it was on-topic anyway...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i dont necessarily want a 50% improvement in range more than I want a 50% improvement in price. i can live with a 80>70>60>50 mile range. it wont cover 100% of my transportation need but it will cover enough to where i will get plenty of use out of it.

now that i think of it, when cost to operate is considered, i have never owned a vehicle that covered 100% of my need at not in the past 15 years.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I don't see why it would be an issue if the additional range was an option, keeping the base price down. then again, as long as Nissan is going to try and say 3 and 4 bar capacity loss is "gradual", I don't see how they can afford to continue selling the current range option in all but the coolest states, like ours.

i dont necessarily want a 50% improvement in range more than I want a 50% improvement in price. i can live with a 80>70>60>50 mile range. it wont cover 100% of my transportation need but it will cover enough to where i will get plenty of use out of it.

now that i think of it, when cost to operate is considered, i have never owned a vehicle that covered 100% of my need at not in the past 15 years.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I don't see why it would be an issue if the additional range was an option, keeping the base price down. then again, as long as Nissan is going to try and say 3 and 4 bar capacity loss is "gradual", I don't see how they can afford to continue selling the current range option in all but the coolest states, like ours.

i dont necessarily want a 50% improvement in range more than I want a 50% improvement in price. i can live with a 80>70>60>50 mile range. it wont cover 100% of my transportation need but it will cover enough to where i will get plenty of use out of it.

now that i think of it, when cost to operate is considered, i have never owned a vehicle that covered 100% of my need at not in the past 15 years.

ok then give me 84 miles for $25K or 150 miles for $35K...

 

[TomT]

Well, we DO have a tradition to uphold here! :lol:

Not that it was on-topic anyway...

 

[TomT]

I often have trips that are just beyond the range of the Leaf, and I don't have the time to sit somewhere for a few hours to charge (no QC anywhere near)... I currently take the ICE for those. A 50% range improvement would eliminate 3/4 of my ICE usage... It would also let me driver faster than the 60-62 or so that I often must to fulfill my range requirements for the day.

i dont necessarily want a 50% improvement in range more than I want a 50% improvement in price. i can live with a 80>70>60>50 mile range. it wont cover 100% of my transportation need but it will cover enough to where i will get plenty of use out of it.

 

[surfingslovak]

Losing 10% capacity in the first year under abuse is gradual.. losing that in one day would be abrupt. The warranty is what it is, take it or leave it.

Herm, was the 10% loss just hypothetical for the sake of illustration? Given the general level of concern over capacity loss, and battery care, I would be hard-pressed to name just one example of clear battery abuse. Yet, many owners appear to be 10% down. We even found an owner, who's car was about 7% down after the car sat for 12 months on dealer lots. We don't have the charging history on it, but the owner claims that the Leaf was half charged when he decided to lease it. What you say about the warranty is true, and I drew consequences from that. I hope this won't become an industry standard.

 

[KJD]

Somewhere I read that the TN battery plant has the capacity to build 200,000 battery packs a year. Now if all of those battery packs went into EV's that would be great, but it appears that EV sales will be less than that for a while.

On the roof of my garage I have a small PV solar system. It is wired to a lead acid battery bank inside the garage. This week one of my Trojan Lead Acid batteries showed a dead cell. These batteries where supposed to have a 7 year warranty. The battery is less than 4 years old. Guess what, the Trojan battery warranty is not worth the paper it is written on. I will be replacing this dead Trojan with a US Battery and hope for the best.

Nissan could sell more Lithium batteries if they would offer 48 volt modules to people like me with small solar systems. It seems like it would be easy to do. I would love to send my lead acid batteries to the recycle yard one last time.

 

[Herm]

I often have trips that are just beyond the range of the Leaf, and I don't have the time to sit somewhere for a few hours to charge (no QC anywhere near)... I currently take the ICE for those. A 50% range improvement would eliminate 3/4 of my ICE usage...

How often is often?.. once a week would be trivial and good for keeping your backup ICE car in good condition.

 

[Herm]

Herm, was the 10% loss just hypothetical for the sake of illustration?

It was just an example, a year is a long time in the life of a battery.. Ideally the BMS in the Leaf will not let you abuse the battery. I did not mean that everyone with capacity loss has abused their battery, but there are lots of threads early on with owners proudly admitting to drive aggressively, charging to 100% routinely, wearing out the tires in record times etc.. all that will affect battery wear but probably not as much as living in hellhole Phoenix.

 

[mwalsh]

Well. It turns out that Ms. Sexton is at the Smyrna battery plant today. Here is her only picture thus far: