P1273 software update ruined my car. Your opinion?

[mwalsh]

The slow (and painful) quest for lost Gids continues. But not without some success - I'm finally seeing small but encouraging increases with each charging event. Even though it feels like I'm having to baby things along quite a bit more than I'd really like.

Last night I had the opportunity to charge on L1 from the get-go, since I didn't have to work today. It took 15 hours (to the minute, as it happens) to go from 13/4.6% to 233/82.9%. I actually could have charged on L1 this whole time since I am able to start charging at 6pm and don't need the car again until 9am on workdays.

However, I do seem to be having the best results when I'm able to wait for a couple of hours before I try stuffing a bit more into the pack. This morning I was able to do just that and was rewarded with 238/84.6%/393.5v.

Onward and upwards, my friends. Onward and upwards.

 

[surfingslovak]

Onward and upwards, my friends. Onward and upwards.

Good to hear, Mike! Hopefully, you will be able to put this episode behind you soon. This being a Friday, let me note that if Nissan was ever to bring out a LEAF themed Tamagotchi, it might resonate well with their Leafing customer base. Especially, if it incorporated the Gid count on its display.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Mike, I was waiting for your google doc update with today's GID. Graet that you going up hopefully within few days you will be to your regular 250+.

Wonder if % capacity on '13 dash is GID based, if so GID meter maybe no longer needed if resolution is reasonable

 

[TomT]

No, it is based on the percentage of charge in the pack so it will always say around 100% when fully charged regardless of the actual pack capacity or degradation...

Wonder if % capacity on '13 dash is GID based, if so GID meter maybe no longer needed if resolution is reasonable

 

[TonyWilliams]

No, it is based on the actual pack capacity so it will always say around 100% when fully charged regardless of the actual pack capacity...

Wonder if % capacity on '13 dash is GID based, if so GID meter maybe no longer needed if resolution is reasonable

The new 2013 will show 100% regardless of capacity, when fully charged, and show the following:

-------Gid----Gid%--Gid2%---2013 dash % (2013 dash % data based on SOC %, not Gids)
Full----281---100%---100%----100% (new non-degraded battery at 70F; 21kWh usable)
Half----144--51.2%----50%----50% (new non-degraded battery at 70F; 10.5kWh usable)
Full***--144--51.2%----50%----100% (***used 50% degraded battery at 70F; 10.5kWh usable)
LBW----49---17.4%---15.3%----15% (2013 data on a new car, unknown for degraded battery)
VLB----24----8.6%-----6.2%----5% (2013 data on a new car, unknown for degraded battery)
Turtle --7-----2.5%-----0%-----0% (2013 data on a new car, unknown for degraded battery)

NOTE: LBW and VLB are indexed to Gids, therefore those values won't match the SOC derived data of the 2013 dash % with a degraded battery.

 

[mwalsh]

Mike, I was waiting for your google doc update with today's GID. Graet that you going up hopefully within few days you will be to your regular 250+.

FYI...don't need to charge now until Monday. So no further updates for the weekend.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

FYI...don't need to charge now until Monday. So no further updates for the weekend.

Lets stick with LBC le-learning because looks like is working

 

[mwalsh]

Lets stick with LBC re-learning because looks like is working

Yes, as long as Gids keep ticking up I'll be a happy bunny. Still going to keep my case open with Nissan though, just to be safe.

 

[garygid]

What is your GID-value goal for your 100% charging?

 

[mwalsh]

What is your GID-value goal for your 100% charging?

The spreadsheet tells all:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnSYHt_rpvYydGlLZ3dOZ1dfTlFRS2JsTlo1V1ptVHc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

Looking at your spreadsheet it appears that 394V is your commonly hit max voltage. Only saw 394.5V a couple times, so I think that as soon as you get to 394V you'll be close to "normal" again.

Really would be nice to be able to read individual cell-pair voltages to confirm pack balance!

 

[mwalsh]

Really would be nice to be able to read individual cell-pair voltages to confirm pack balance!

Maybe that would be a useful reason to follow up on what Nissan CS has sorted this next week.

 

[Bicster]

The new 2013 will show 100% regardless of capacity, when fully charged

That's kind of, um, well, let's just say I don't have any polite things to say about that.

 

[planet4ever]

The new 2013 will show 100% regardless of capacity, when fully charged

That's kind of, um, well, let's just say I don't have any polite things to say about that.

Why? It answers the question "How full is my battery?" considerably better than the existing bars (which also show 12 at 100% regardless of battery capacity). It isn't designed to answer the question "How far can I go?". Nissan already tried that, and we hated it. If you want to know "How many kilowatt hours do I have left?" get a Gid meter.

Ray

 

[Den]

Where else are you going to get pack voltage?

QC?

389V = 86% ??

BTW, this is 100% charge + 2,3km driven (still 12 bars). Temperature: -10C (14F), 3 bars of batt.temp.

379V = 44% ?? Outside temp.: -8C (driven 70,1 km (44 miles) from full charge).

 

[Bicster]

Why? It answers the question "How full is my battery?" considerably better than the existing bars (which also show 12 at 100% regardless of battery capacity). It isn't designed to answer the question "How far can I go?". Nissan already tried that, and we hated it. If you want to know "How many kilowatt hours do I have left?" get a Gid meter.

Aside from granularity, what's the difference between the 2011/2012 SOC meter (bars) and the one added to the 2013 (percentage)? I guess Nissan made the right choice, but is there any instrumentation in the car that shows how much charge the battery took? It sounds like they have not taken any steps to give drivers insight into the health of their pack. (Don't tell me about the battery tests!)

 

[Herm]

389V = 86% ??

Not that easy to determine the SOC just from the voltage, depends a lot on battery temperature and age

 

[surfingslovak]

389V = 86% ??

Not that easy to determine the SOC just from the voltage, depends a lot on battery temperature and age

From what I recall, the resting voltage after a 80% charge is 388.5V. This corresponds to 82% usable capacity. So the number quoted above wouldn't be too far off the mark. I remember someone mentioning that the SOC % reported on a QC is actually supplied by the car itself. The one thing I would be concerned about is that the voltage indicated on the display is not the resting voltage.

 

[mwalsh]

This morning's numbers - charging was 15.75 hours from Turtle on L1. Return was 234/83.2%/393v. Bumped to 239/85%/393v after letting the battery rest for 2 hours. This is only a 1 Gid gain over the previous charging event, so I might now be seeing a diminishing return on the exercise.

394v? I would give my soul to see 394v again, never mind 394.5v.

 

[RegGuheert]

394v? I would give my soul to see 394v again, never mind 394.5v.

Based on my understanding, the voltage should be a function of the degree of cell balancing achieved combined with the SOC of the various cells.

While I do not have a GIDmeter, I find that I can get the most range out of the twelfth bar by running the climate control during the last bar or two of charging. I suppose that may trick the charger into allowing a little higher SOC than it normally would.

OTOH, it is entirely possible that the measurement system for your vehicle is slightly different than it was with the old BMS and the results will forever be different. I have noted elsewhere that differences in voltage measurment will result in some cars achieving higher battery capacity initially, but shorter lives and other cars achieving lower battery capacity initially, but longer lives. The problem is that we have no idea where any individual car falls in this spectrum, but possibly yours may have just moved more toward lower capacity/longer life.