Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[TonyWilliams]

When walking ul to the car, it will automatically unlock the door. Pushing the door button then relics the car. Very frustrating coming from Nissan / Infiniti cars.

You sure about that? Typical Toyota Smart Key System behavior is that the interior lights turn on as you approach it w/the smart key. Only when you touch the rear of the door handles do the doors unlock, confirmed by a two beeps. Pushing the black button locks the doors and that is its ONLY action. On newer Toyotas w/SKS (like the '10+ Prius), the black button has been replaced by two ridges that you can push on/squeeze on.

On Nissans w/smart key (Intelligent Key in Nissan parlance), the black button serves both lock and unlock functions. I dislike that.

I stand corrected. Obviously my hand did touch the handle, which activated the unlock, as you state.

 

[TonyWilliams]

There is no rear seat heater, or steering wheel heater in Rav4.

I like the "real" sun visor with extension on the Rav4.

The airbag light for the passenger lights up when there's a passenger, instead of lighting up to tell you it won't deploy with too little weight (LEAF). I don't like an indicator light on to tell me something is operating normal (in aviation, this is the norm "dark cockpit" concept).

I like the bigger softkey buttons on the navigation screen. Way better than LEAF.

 

[DaveEV]

Wow, 130 miles on a charge - that's awesome! How long did you charge while in Santa Ysabel? Too bad it doesn't have CHAdeMO charging - you could easily drive across the state in this thing.

How far do you think you could have driven your LEAF under the same conditions? What did the car report as the mi/kWh for the charge?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Wow, 130 miles on a charge - that's awesome! How long did you charge while in Santa Ysabel?

I didn't charge at all. Just plugged it in for the photo op, then kept driving. I had driven 28 miles in the morning prior to driving the 40 miles to Julian (and 4000 feet up).

Too bad it doesn't have CHAdeMO charging - you could easily drive across the state in this thing.

Yes, you could. I think this car is so awesome, that I wouldn't mind spending a sizeable amount of money to research adding a Chademo port. Moving the L2 to the nose is a given; I really dislike backing in places (can you imagine angled street parking, trying to back in for the cord to reach?).

How far do you think you could have driven your LEAF under the same conditions? What did the car report as the mi/kWh for the charge?

I had reset the economy meter at the top where it had 2.5 miles/kWh for the 68 miles driven that morning (just the 40 miles up the hill would be slightly below 2.5) and the return was like 8 something. Iit doesn't roll quite as good as LEAF, but very close.

The LEAF, when new and same conditions would do mid 90 miles of range on this 84 mile round trip (about 4.5 miles/kWh). My red LEAF had degraded enough that I couldn't do this trip anymore. The black LEAF is close to not being practical (different than possible). I would drive any LEAF much more cautiously, since I'm cutting it close, while I drove the Rav4 like any other car, and really didn't think about range. It was a true pleasure.

Rav4 did 130 miles / 36 kWh (total guess) = 3.6 miles per kWh for the whole trip, including 4000 foot elevation change.. But, I started at home (580 feet) and ended at the dealer at sea level.

 

[TonyWilliams]

charging at 6.6 kW L2 = 24 miles per hour of charge - about 50% better than 2011/2012 LEAF.
If your L2 is actually delivering 208V (quite common, I believe), charge rate would be a little lower.

And if you're plugged in at an RV park, with a proper OpenEVSE with 40 amp capability, you'll get 9.6kW charging. I notice the charger is rated to 265 volts, so maybe we need to carry a transformer to bump that 208/240v to 260 !!!! (10.4kW). I can think of lots of fun things to do with this car. What about adding the second Tesla charger for 20kW ?

What is the usable battery capacity in kWh in both Normal and Sport mode ?

Usable remains the same (I'm guessing 36kWh). The change comes with normal charge (our 80%) and extended charge (range charge in Tesla-speak) to 100%.

So, maybe 36kWh at 100%, and 31kWh at 80%, versus 21 and 16.8 for LEAF. But, you have to subtract some amount of degradation from LEAF at year two, and I think the liquid cooled Tesla Roadsters are doing VERY well even in Phoenix after many years.... another strike for Nissan.

 

[JeremyW]

Well I found out this morning that the EVSE upgrade does NOT work with the RAV4.

Won't be able to do a 100% to empty test like Tony did. I am lucky enough that we've got some decent L2 around here so I'll still do some hill climbing.

I don't like the nav. I was using my iPhone with pandora yesterday, and while that works, the interface is not intuitive. I tried out using a USB drive with music in folders this morning. You don't get a nice list view like in the Leaf, just a single folder and song which you can scroll through individually. I haven't used the navigation functions yet (will this afternoon), but there's a whole bunch of red dots on the map where I've traveled. Not sure I need all those "waypoints" displayed. I haven't figured out where the volume control is besides the steering wheel. :shock:

That said, I do really like the climate control display. Both the heater and AC work great in our 50-80 degree weather we have at the moment. The heated seat works like the leaf, but has 3 heating levels. I miss my heated steering wheel.

At work the chargepoint reports 6.2kW draw. I presume this means 30A at 208V.

The manual for the car seems to be curiously absent.

[Pictures will be added to this post this afternoon.]

 

[TonyWilliams]

Well I found out this morning that the EVSE upgrade does NOT work with the RAV4.

What do it do. I didn't even try it. My rental had the cheap looking EVSE in the trunk. I don't know what rate that is; presumably 12 amps at 120 volts.

I haven't figured out where the volume control is besides the steering wheel. :shock:

Hit the little music note icon in the upper right hand side of the Nav screen. A menu will pop down with MUTE, and a sliding scale for volume, plus fast forward, etc.

Please try out the "myENtune.com" and get the app on the iPhone.

 

[surfingslovak]

Well I found out this morning that the EVSE upgrade does NOT work with the RAV4.

What do it do. I didn't even try it. My rental had the cheap looking EVSE in the trunk. I don't know what rate that is; presumably 12 amps at 120 volts.

It looks like the exact same trickle cord they ship with the PIP. At least it's made by Panasonic.

 

[TonyWilliams]

How much did Mossy Toyota charge you for the rental?

$59 per day. Gasoline $5/gal if not full. (Kidding; I asked them if they cared how much energy was in the battery when I returned it; they didn't care)

 

[EVDrive]

Too bad it doesn't have CHAdeMO charging - you could easily drive across the state in this thing.

Yes, you could. I think this car is so awesome, that I wouldn't mind spending a sizeable amount of money to research adding a Chademo port. Moving the L2 to the nose is a given; I really dislike backing in places (can you imagine angled street parking, trying to back in for the cord to reach?).

I think it is a big mistake not to offer fast charging on this car. Toyota claims to be in the Chademo camp so where is the putting it into action. Even the option to add a second 10kwh charger would be cool.
This day and age, you can't hope to have a successful EV without fast charging.
Interested to see if anyone could add aftermarket fast charging to this car. I would be more than tempted to buy one if it had a fast charger option. I would buy the base model s if they had a fast charge option as well.

I also agree about the charge port placement, the front is the right place. A few co-workers have the model s and they have to back in to charge everyday at our company chargers. Pretty stupid charge port placement on the model s as well.

The major flaw of no quick charger (which in my opinion proves Toyota wasn't serious about making this car a success in the market) aside, the Rav 4 EV is an amazing car to drive. Comfortable, powerful and has the minimum range needed for a stress free day trip. It definitely has room for extra seats in the back as well.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... the Rav 4 EV is an amazing car to drive. Comfortable, powerful and has the minimum range needed for a stress free day trip. It definitely has room for extra seats in the back as well.

That's what Mrs. Tony liked best... no stress. The third row seat option looks viable.

 

[sparky]

Since it's a Tesla powertrain I doubt Toyota had much to say about a Chademo option.
Other things I recall from my RAV4 tryout: I found the turning radius to be the same as the LEAF; wind-noise worse but road noise a little better (which was odd). And you reminded me about that reverse chime which was annoying as hell and only inside the car!
My time with the RAV4 EV had me thinking a 40 kWh Model S may work just fine for me. The range was really more than enough for all but a handful of long trips.
I recently pulled the trigger on a Model S reservation so now I have 10-11 mos to choose between the 40 or 85 pack (the 60 seems like a poorer value).

In 3 yrs, perhaps I'll look for one of these coming off its lease. At $25k, it seems like a good replacement for our LEAF which will be 5 yrs and down to about 55 freeway miles (I hope). I don't think I'll ever get my wife back into a non plug-in car and the RAV4 seems like a great car for her commute. However, she drove it and still prefers the LEAF.

 

[palmermd]

However, she drove it and still prefers the LEAF.

Thats the first person who I've heard said that. Everyone comes away very impressed with this car. I was looking forward to Tony's review. He went in a little sceptical and came out raving about the car. Pretty much what I thought would happen. After my time with the car I wished it was available at the time I bought my Leaf. I'd have jumped at this over the Leaf in an instant. For me, I'm looking at an 85kWh S or X, because it could replace both my Leaf and my Prius.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

... the Rav 4 EV is an amazing car to drive. Comfortable, powerful and has the minimum range needed for a stress free day trip. It definitely has room for extra seats in the back as well.

That's what Mrs. Tony liked best... no stress. The third row seat option looks viable.

130 miles is great. so you think Toyota is allowing access to 36 Kwh? wow... 90% of the pack! a bit surprising considering their normal conservatism.

 

[GRA]

... the Rav 4 EV is an amazing car to drive. Comfortable, powerful and has the minimum range needed for a stress free day trip. It definitely has room for extra seats in the back as well.

That's what Mrs. Tony liked best... no stress. The third row seat option looks viable.

130 miles is great. so you think Toyota is allowing access to 36 Kwh? wow... 90% of the pack! a bit surprising considering their normal conservatism.

ISTR reading somewhere that 37.5kWh was usable with an 'extended mode' charge. Unfortunately, I can't find it, and that works out to ~90%, which is high unless they're hiding some beyond 41.8kWh.

Edit: Found the following in a Green Car Congress report from August; no idea of its accuracy:

"The RAV4 EV has two charge modes: Standard and Extended. In standard mode, the high voltage battery charges only up to 35 kWh and the vehicle is expected to achieve an EPA-estimated driving range rating of 92 miles. Extended Mode allows the battery to charge to its full usable capacity of 41.8 kWh, providing an anticipated EPA-estimated driving range of 113 miles. Standard mode is designed to optimize battery life over range; however, the 8-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty cover the packs regardless of the mix of charge modes over the packs’s life."

"Charging times
Standard Mode Extended Mode
40A/240V 5 hrs 6 hrs
30A/240V 6.5 hrs 8 hrs
16A/240V 12 hrs 15 hrs
12A/120V 44 hrs 52 hrs"

Oh, yeah, from the same article, describing their target market:

"Based on its research, Toyota has a clear customer in mind, Fay said. The target buyer is married, 45–60 years old, highly educated, and is an affluent and evangelistic early adopter. He or she owns a home, which is perhaps solar-powered. The target buyers have strong personal convictions on the environment, oil use, and cutting edge technology. 'The pool of buyers,' noted Fay, 'is small.'"

They certainly nailed that.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/08/rav4ev-20120803.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

130 miles is great. so you think Toyota is allowing access to 36 Kwh? wow... 90% of the pack! a bit surprising considering their normal conservatism.

I doubt Toyota had much say in that part. But, 90% is less than LEAF at 93% and no TMS.

Oh, yeah, from the same article, describing their target market:

"Based on its research, Toyota has a clear customer in mind, Fay said. The target buyer is married, 45–60 years old, highly educated, and is an affluent and evangelistic early adopter. He or she owns a home, which is perhaps solar-powered. The target buyers have strong personal convictions on the environment, oil use, and cutting edge technology. 'The pool of buyers,' noted Fay, 'is small.'"

They certainly nailed that.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/08/rav4ev-20120803.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow. Ya, got that one.

 

[GRA]

From GCC yesterday:

"Toyota RAV4 EV may not be compatible with all public Level 2 charging stations

2 November 2012

"Toyota has notified their dealer network that some 2012 RAV4 EV customers may complain of a “Check EV System” warning message after they try to charge their vehicle at a public Level 2 electric vehicle charging station. “Level 2” refers to a 240V AC electric vehicle charging station, or EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment).

"Toyota uses Leviton Manufacturing as its Level 2 EVSE supplier. Leviton offers 16A, 30A, and 40A charging stations, approved for use with the 2012 RAV4 EV. Toyota has also confirmed basic compatibility between the RAV4 EV and the following Level 2 charging stations:"

Aerovironment: Level 2 EVSE-RS
Blink/Ecotality: Level 2 Charge Station
ChargePoint/Coulomb Technologies: CT2000 Series
Clipper Creek: CS Series
Eaton: EV Charging Station (residential)
Eaton: Pow-R-Station (commercial)
Schneider Electric: EVLink Indoor Charging Station (EV2430WS)

"Toyota plans to continue basic testing on additional Level 2 charging stations, to identify other EVSE than are compatible with the RAV4 EV."

 

[TonyWilliams]

WARNING WARNING WARNING

Toyota has an interesting handling of the IRS $7500 tax credit. Those of us who bought a LEAF know all too well that when you buy the car, you file tax form 8936 for the $7500 credit.

But if we lease, Nissan will rightly take the credit, and pass it on to in your lease as a $7500 tax credit.

TOYOTA DOES NOT DO THIS !!! Toyota keeps the credit, according to the Toyota regional dude who explained it away with the dealer I was trying to lease the Rav4 from. The $7500 is just magic that Toyota seems to think that the end consumer is better off not knowing.

So, when Toyota says their lease has $3200 cash for you, the leasee, they really mean they are going to give you $3200 of the $7500 they get as a credit, for themselves. Instant $4300 profit for them (not the dealer... the legal owner, Toyota Financial (or whatever it's called)).

Caveat Emptor

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
There have been similar complaints about Toyota handles PiP lease tax credits. The Prius product manager chimed in about this. It sucks. See below on that...

http://priuschat.com/threads/pip-lease-terms-will-toyota-give-us-a-fair-deal.102950/#post-1479464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://priuschat.com/threads/pip-lease-terms-will-toyota-give-us-a-fair-deal.102950/#post-1494905" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know if the situation has changed, but from the sounds of it w/the Rav4 EV, it hasn't.

(And yes, Erica does work for Toyota. I've met her before at an official Toyota event. And, I've been invited to official Toyota events via the "Prius Team" user.)

 

[EVDrive]

WARNING WARNING WARNING

The $7500 is just magic that Toyota seems to think that the end consumer is better off not knowing.

So, when Toyota says their lease has $3200 cash for you, the leasee, they really mean they are going to give you $3200 of the $7500 they get as a credit, for themselves. Instant $4300 profit for them (not the dealer... the legal owner, Toyota Financial (or whatever it's called)).

Really... that is unfortunate. Well this just seems like another way that they are showing a lack of wanting to get these on the road. Nissan is much more eager to get their ev's on the road than Toyota.

What are you planning to do Tony? Lease or buy?