TomT
Well-known member
Quite cool!
scottf200 said:
Official Tesla Model S thread
- Thread starter AndyH
- Start date
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mwalsh said:
While the only EV I've driven in my humble Leaf, what swings things into the model S favor is the range and supercharger network. the MY2012 only has a 3.3 kw charger onboard so even with lots of public free L2 locations I am very restricted in how far I can go. Who wants to wait six hrs for a charge to get back home.
I really need a three hrs @ 70mph range. This would at least get me to Atlanta for dinner and a show. And after four hrs of dinner and show maybe I would have enough charge to get back.
mwalsh said:
Yes it is very promising but the i3 with range extender will not power the car at highway speeds when the batter is depleted. It is good to limp to a charger for your recharge wait. At least you will not be on the side of the road waiting for the charge truck. But it will not allow you to have long range.
Now Maza's rotary engine Extended range MX2 might be the thing. I haven't heard how much the genset will produce. But they claim a 300 mile Japan EPA rating. It looks promising. (green car report)
TomT
Well-known member
It is also very limited in how much range it can add... By CARB mandate, it can't be more than the electric range...
N952JL said:
I believe I read 20kw output for the genset.
timhebb
Well-known member
Sorry for sullying this thread with such a downscale - and morbid - topic, but I've been waiting impatiently for it to appear, and since no one else has had the bad taste to start it, here goes:
What if Paul Walker had been a passenger in a Tesla S instead of the 2005 Porsche Carrera GT he was riding in?
Yes, this question has a lot of titillating tabloid tendencies, but I think it's a legitimate question to ask, particularly in light of the recent Tesla fires controversy.
According to the L.A. Times this morning:
“Fast and Furious” star Paul Walker died from a combination of traumatic injuries and burns after the Porsche he was riding in crashed and erupted in flames, according to autopsy results released Wednesday by the Los Angeles County Coroner's office.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-coroner-paul-walker-autopsy-20131204,0,5152094.story#ixzz2mXPFwcNk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Times also reported that the coroner said both the driver and Walker were dead "within seconds" of the crash. Interestingly, the coroner's report indicated that the driver "died from traumatic injuries" but did not indicate fire as a contributing factor.
So, given what we know about the recent Tesla incidents, as well as the aftermath of other Tesla collisions, what are some of the possible scenarios that might plausibly have taken place, if Paul Walker had been a passenger in an identical collision in a Tesla S rather than the Porsche?
Gentlemen, start your speculation engines!
For the record: my own personal completely non-expert and not-even-particularly-informed opinion is that both men would have had a hell of a lot better chance of surviving in the Tesla, and fire would almost certainly not have been a factor, unless they remained unconscious for an extended period and were not removed from the vehicle by others.
*** EDIT ***
It's appropriate to note that the Porsche model in question has been widely reported to have been notoriously difficult to handle. The estimable news organization TMZ reports this today:
Paul Walker wasn't the first to allegedly experience mechanical issues inside a Porsche Carrera GT -- TMZ has learned, the car company was sued over a deadly 2005 crash involving the same vehicle ... and it paid dearly in a massive settlement.
According to the lawsuit, two men (a driver and his passenger) were killed on a California race track while driving a 2005 Carrera GT ... hitting a wall at over 100 MPH while trying to avoid another car on the track.
The family of the passenger sued practically everyone involved in the accident for gross negligence -- and won $4.5 million in a giant settlement ... $350,000 of which was paid by Porsche.
The lawsuit alleged the GT didn't handle correctly on the track -- and according to the attorney for the victim's family, Craig McClellan ... sworn testimony from several Porsche experts confirmed a major design flaw with the GT is it doesn't have a Porsche Stability Management system.
We're told the PSMS uses a computer to correct the car if the rear end loses control -- and it is now required by law. http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/04/paul-walker-death-porsche-carrera-gt-lawsuit-accident-racetrack/#ixzz2mY5TTU6P" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Given this car's reputation and legal history, it's not a huge stretch to speculate that, had Walker and his companion been in a Tesla (or most any other vehicle), the accident might well have not occurred in the first place.
But still, it's Tesla that is the object of hysterical witch-hunts and headlines. Porsche? Well, what did you expect? It's safe to assume that future installments of the "Fast and Furious" franchise will not feature Teslas or any other EVs, unless the special FX crew is permitted to rig them up to concoct spectacular fireballs when they crash...no, Teslas are likely to disappoint the deadly thrill-seeking crowd.
What if Paul Walker had been a passenger in a Tesla S instead of the 2005 Porsche Carrera GT he was riding in?
Yes, this question has a lot of titillating tabloid tendencies, but I think it's a legitimate question to ask, particularly in light of the recent Tesla fires controversy.
According to the L.A. Times this morning:
“Fast and Furious” star Paul Walker died from a combination of traumatic injuries and burns after the Porsche he was riding in crashed and erupted in flames, according to autopsy results released Wednesday by the Los Angeles County Coroner's office.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-coroner-paul-walker-autopsy-20131204,0,5152094.story#ixzz2mXPFwcNk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Times also reported that the coroner said both the driver and Walker were dead "within seconds" of the crash. Interestingly, the coroner's report indicated that the driver "died from traumatic injuries" but did not indicate fire as a contributing factor.
So, given what we know about the recent Tesla incidents, as well as the aftermath of other Tesla collisions, what are some of the possible scenarios that might plausibly have taken place, if Paul Walker had been a passenger in an identical collision in a Tesla S rather than the Porsche?
Gentlemen, start your speculation engines!
For the record: my own personal completely non-expert and not-even-particularly-informed opinion is that both men would have had a hell of a lot better chance of surviving in the Tesla, and fire would almost certainly not have been a factor, unless they remained unconscious for an extended period and were not removed from the vehicle by others.
*** EDIT ***
It's appropriate to note that the Porsche model in question has been widely reported to have been notoriously difficult to handle. The estimable news organization TMZ reports this today:
Paul Walker wasn't the first to allegedly experience mechanical issues inside a Porsche Carrera GT -- TMZ has learned, the car company was sued over a deadly 2005 crash involving the same vehicle ... and it paid dearly in a massive settlement.
According to the lawsuit, two men (a driver and his passenger) were killed on a California race track while driving a 2005 Carrera GT ... hitting a wall at over 100 MPH while trying to avoid another car on the track.
The family of the passenger sued practically everyone involved in the accident for gross negligence -- and won $4.5 million in a giant settlement ... $350,000 of which was paid by Porsche.
The lawsuit alleged the GT didn't handle correctly on the track -- and according to the attorney for the victim's family, Craig McClellan ... sworn testimony from several Porsche experts confirmed a major design flaw with the GT is it doesn't have a Porsche Stability Management system.
We're told the PSMS uses a computer to correct the car if the rear end loses control -- and it is now required by law. http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/04/paul-walker-death-porsche-carrera-gt-lawsuit-accident-racetrack/#ixzz2mY5TTU6P" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Given this car's reputation and legal history, it's not a huge stretch to speculate that, had Walker and his companion been in a Tesla (or most any other vehicle), the accident might well have not occurred in the first place.
But still, it's Tesla that is the object of hysterical witch-hunts and headlines. Porsche? Well, what did you expect? It's safe to assume that future installments of the "Fast and Furious" franchise will not feature Teslas or any other EVs, unless the special FX crew is permitted to rig them up to concoct spectacular fireballs when they crash...no, Teslas are likely to disappoint the deadly thrill-seeking crowd.
pkulak
Well-known member
Yup. If Tesla keeps on being popular with rich people, sooner or later some celebrity is going to die in one. I don't care what kind of barriers you have; crash a Tesla like that Porsche and it's going to be a fireball. Then we are all in for about a year of electric safety debates on the morning news shows.
It's very difficult to compare the two.
The Model S is a much larger, family luxury sedan.
That said' carob fibre shatters and the handling characteristics of the Porsche are difficult.
However, the GT is street legal, so it should be able to pass the national highway safety tests.
Comparisons are also difficult as the GT may well have been going faster than the Model S is capable of (130mph).
But if he had been in a Model S, he would have stood a better chance.
The Model S is a much larger, family luxury sedan.
That said' carob fibre shatters and the handling characteristics of the Porsche are difficult.
However, the GT is street legal, so it should be able to pass the national highway safety tests.
Comparisons are also difficult as the GT may well have been going faster than the Model S is capable of (130mph).
But if he had been in a Model S, he would have stood a better chance.
pkulak said:
Sooner or later I am sure it is bound to happen that there is a death in a Model S.
However, I believe that an occupant has a better chance of surviving a crash in a Model S than any other Sedan, Coupe, Sports car, Pickup Truck, or SUV.
The closest comparison to this accident is probably the one down in Mexico.
In that case a driver, at a high rate of speed, hit a curb, was going fast enough to take a 4700lbs car airborne, sheared through 18' of concrete wall, and hit a tree.
The occupants got out and according to reports "ran away".
palmermd
Well-known member
One year later and they still love the car! Pretty typical response from an owner.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-S2d3FbUfc[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-S2d3FbUfc[/youtube]
GaslessInSeattle
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,566
Paul Walker would have survived and the press would be blaming Tesla for the crash...
GregH
Well-known member
Another Tesla article..
http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...but-2015-20131213,0,37648.story#axzz2nedV1i7F
Who is this "auto industry analyst" idiot Thilo Koslowski?
"No car company can live off 20,000 to 30,000 sales a year and be profitable in the long term.”
and
“One hundred to 120 miles of range isn't enough for mainstream consumers to really feel comfortable.”
http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...but-2015-20131213,0,37648.story#axzz2nedV1i7F
Who is this "auto industry analyst" idiot Thilo Koslowski?
"No car company can live off 20,000 to 30,000 sales a year and be profitable in the long term.”
and
“One hundred to 120 miles of range isn't enough for mainstream consumers to really feel comfortable.”
garsh
Well-known member
There's nothing idiotic about his statements. Calm down, realize that he's not out to get you, and read that again.GregH said:
Tesla's not long-term profitable yet. We all hope (and believe) they will get there. But they need to move beyond the Model S before that will happen.
120 miles is NOT enough for (say it out loud with me) *mainstream* consumers. Everybody who currently has an electric car knows about the range & recharge-time limitations, and has determined that it's a tradeoff that they can live with. But most people either can't make that tradeoff, or prefer not to.
ebill3
Well-known member
Very well said. Even with a 85 kWh Tesla, trips have to be planned in some detail, and most folks don't want that bother. There is a gas station at every corner, but not a charging station.garsh said:
Nubo
Well-known member
ebill3 said:
And I LOVE not having to bother with those omnipresent gas stations. It's one of the joys and conveniences in owning the LEAF where 95% of my charging is done at home. With 265 miles of EPA range, the only time we'd ever have to bother with away-from-home fueling would be 3 or 4 times a year. Having to coordinate lunch and free fueling, 4 times a year. Oh, the bother! :lol:
Of course, everyone's situation is different. But for homeowners, I reckon the majority would find a car with that range to be decidedly MORE convenient than gasoline in real life.
apvbguy
Well-known member
ah yes, you've just touched upon a whole 'nother problem. people who live in apartments/condos can have a problem with being able to have a place to recharge.Nubo said:
GregH
Well-known member
We'll just have to agree to disagree.. I don't believe that producing heavier and more expensive vehicles only for the driver to eventually discover he/she doesn't need all the extra kWh is.. frankly.. a huge waste.garsh said:
scottf200
Well-known member
Workplace charging (L1 works for many even) and DCFC charging stations (extra 20-30 minutes tho unless you are queued up behind someone (ie. most chademo single chargers AFAIK).apvbguy said:
apvbguy
Well-known member
believe it or not in many places people do not have access to power where they park for the day.scottf200 said:
even crazier, some people live in apartments/condos where access to charging is not possible and they use public transportation for their commute.
I am not looking for arguments, I am just pointing out a huge part of the population for whom an EV will not work. Until charging stations are as common as gasoline stations this segment is essentially shut out of the EV market
smkettner
Well-known member
I am still waiting for a tenant to request some EV charging system.
But then I don't have that many :|
But then I don't have that many :|
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