Official Tesla Model S thread

[sparky]

I know we all want a longer life LEAF pack. After longer range, active BMS seems to be the most desired new LEAF feature.
My Tesla has been parked for two days. It's been hot and humid in my garage I guess.
I came out to the garage and stepped in quite a puddle. Lots of condensation from the pack cooling. It was a small river.
Yeah, better than the alternative (Arrhenius) I know, but it does get messy, FYI.

 

[ebill3]

I know we all want a longer life LEAF pack. After longer range, active BMS seems to be the most desired new LEAF feature.
My Tesla has been parked for two days. It's been hot and humid in my garage I guess.
I came out to the garage and stepped in quite a puddle. Lots of condensation from the pack cooling. It was a small river.
Yeah, better than the alternative (Arrhenius) I know, but it does get messy, FYI.

Interesting. Was the car plugged in? If not, how much range did you lose?

 

[Stoaty]

My Tesla has been parked for two days. It's been hot and humid in my garage I guess.
I came out to the garage and stepped in quite a puddle. Lots of condensation from the pack cooling. It was a small river.
Yeah, better than the alternative (Arrhenius) I know, but it does get messy, FYI.

I am a lot more concerned about the energy wasted by the Tesla... especially the vampire losses (which have reportedly been decreased, but not enough for me). However, I also want to know the amount of power used for TMS to keep the battery at optimal temperature. It seems to me that better battery chemistry (ala the new "Hot Battery" which claims to obviate the need for TMS) is really whats needed, and is most likely the longer term more energy efficient solution.

 

[sparky]

Interesting. Was the car plugged in? If not, how much range did you lose?

Yes. It was plugged in.
It uses about 3.5 kWh per day just sitting there and then recharges after it gets about 10 mi down.
Word on the street is the next FW update will cut the vampire loss in half.
We'll see. I hate the wasted power. I remember getting ticked at Blink for the 30W continuous drain of their EVSE when it was first installed. Right now the Model S uses up 3 of my solar panels just sitting there.
I haven't yet measured the BMS cooling energy expended. I plan to do that.

 

[palmermd]

it does not help that your parked right on top of the sun. haha.

 

[scottf200]

However, I also want to know the amount of power used for TMS to keep the battery at optimal temperature. It seems to me that better battery chemistry (ala the new "Hot Battery" which claims to obviate the need for TMS) is really whats needed, and is most likely the longer term more energy efficient solution.

Interesting. Was the car plugged in? If not, how much range did you lose?

Yes. It was plugged in.
It uses about 3.5 kWh per day just sitting there and then recharges after it gets about 10 mi down.
Word on the street is the next FW update will cut the vampire loss in half.
We'll see. I hate the wasted power. I remember getting ticked at Blink for the 30W continuous drain of their EVSE when it was first installed. Right now the Model S uses up 3 of my solar panels just sitting there.
I haven't yet measured the BMS cooling energy expended. I plan to do that.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...e-Load)/page54?p=382190&viewfull=1#post382190

I received this email response from Tesla's Walter Franck on July 9 in response to my question about when the vampire load will be fixed. My apology if this is a boilerplate response posted previously.

Regarding the ancillary drain of Model S. Over the course of the next several months the firmware will continue to be updated to reduce the power consumption of the car’s computer systems. We strive to strike the right balance between minimum energy consumption and ability to have the car always ready and responsive. In our next major firmware release coming this summer, the car's computer systems will use half the power they currently do when the car is off. By the end of this year, they will use about 1% of the power that they do now when the car is off.

The loss of range when the car is off has absolutely nothing to do with energy needed to heat, cool or otherwise do anything to the battery pack. The battery pack simply doesn't consume energy when the car is off nor do the systems that manage it. All of the "sleep" energy loss is going to onboard computer systems and providing the useful benefit of keeping them ready to start-up at a moment’s notice when the driver returns. As noted above this energy consumption will be almost completely eliminated over the next 2-6 months.

 

[Stoaty]

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...e-Load)/page54?p=382190&viewfull=1#post382190

I received this email response from Tesla's Walter Franck on July 9 in response to my question about when the vampire load will be fixed. My apology if this is a boilerplate response posted previously.

The loss of range when the car is off has absolutely nothing to do with energy needed to heat, cool or otherwise do anything to the battery pack. The battery pack simply doesn't consume energy when the car is off nor do the systems that manage it. All of the "sleep" energy loss is going to onboard computer systems and providing the useful benefit of keeping them ready to start-up at a moment’s notice when the driver returns. As noted above this energy consumption will be almost completely eliminated over the next 2-6 months.

So if your Model S is off, but plugged in to charge the TMS doesn't run to keep the battery at optimal temperature? That would be a surprise to me.

 

[sparky]

So if your Model S is off, but plugged in to charge the TMS doesn't run to keep the battery at optimal temperature? That would be a surprise to me.

A surprise to me too.
It's off and plugged in and sitting there after being charged to 80%. At times when I enter the garage, I hear what sounds like A/C running. I don't think that's just computers and I don't understand Franck's comment.
I consider the losses from computers etc. the real vampire loss. I don't consider the loss from the BMS activating to cool or warm the pack "vampire". Also, I expect the pack energy lost due to cooling to be very small. But, we'll see when the FW update arrives.

 

[Zythryn]

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...e-Load)/page54?p=382190&viewfull=1#post382190

I received this email response from Tesla's Walter Franck on July 9 in response to my question about when the vampire load will be fixed. My apology if this is a boilerplate response posted previously.

The loss of range when the car is off has absolutely nothing to do with energy needed to heat, cool or otherwise do anything to the battery pack. The battery pack simply doesn't consume energy when the car is off nor do the systems that manage it. All of the "sleep" energy loss is going to onboard computer systems and providing the useful benefit of keeping them ready to start-up at a moment’s notice when the driver returns. As noted above this energy consumption will be almost completely eliminated over the next 2-6 months.

So if your Model S is off, but plugged in to charge the TMS doesn't run to keep the battery at optimal temperature? That would be a surprise to me.

I think the quote needs to be read in the context of power not being drained from the energy pack. It does, from what I have seen, run the TMS while you are plugged in. Although any water I have seen has been an issue of condensation from the cabin AC, not from battery pack TMS.

 

[GeekEV]

I came out to the garage and stepped in quite a puddle. Lots of condensation from the pack cooling. It was a small river.

You need a doggie-wee pad* to put down on the garage floor!




* If you do wind up going that route, the human ones are much cheaper at your local walmart, etc...

 

[TomT]

No, I don't think anyone except, perhaps Nissan, has yet said that it is enough of an improvement to eliminate the need... It just reduced it IMHO... I still feel there is a need and will continue to until we have at least a hard summer's worth of data from multiple hot climates. Personally, I'll gladly give up the energy to preserve the battery.

It seems to me that better battery chemistry (ala the new "Hot Battery" which claims to obviate the need for TMS) is really whats needed, and is most likely the longer term more energy efficient solution.

 

[RegGuheert]

OT, but I must say that you have a very cool-looking garage floor! My compliments to the artist!

 

[smkettner]

It uses about 3.5 kWh per day just sitting there and then recharges after it gets about 10 mi down.

Right now the Model S uses up 3 of my solar panels just sitting there.

I haven't yet measured the BMS cooling energy expended. I plan to do that.

If you set the charge timer to charge only at night to get low electric rates.....

Does Tesla run the BMS cooling outside of that TOU window from the wall or from the battery?

 

[Zythryn]

If you set the charge timer to charge only at night to get low electric rates.....

Does Tesla run the BMS cooling outside of that TOU window from the wall or from the battery?

We have the EVs on a separate meter with peak, off peak and intermediate times. Since December we have not noticed any draw outside of times in which we specifically told the car to charge.

Note, if you tell the car to preheat or precool with the app, and it is plugged in, it will draw wall power regardless of time.

 

[sparky]

OT, but I must say that you have a very cool-looking garage floor! My compliments to the artist!

Thanks! That would be me. It's a 75 yr old garage floor so I figured I'd try an acid stain to bring out all the "character". The garage is the only part of the house where I get to make style decisions.
To bring this somewhat back on topic; decipher the equation at SW on the compass rose and win an expired Wendy's Baconator coupon or 20% of some forum member's net worth Whichever is smaller. I just can't stop chuckling at that SparkEV v Rav4EV dustup.

 

[N952JL]

Do you by any chance leave the auto climate control on when the car is parked? If so, the car is turning on it's air conditioner to keep the empty car cool waiting your return. and AC do provide a river of water. If you don't want the water, just turn off climate control before you turn the car off.

 

[sparky]

Do you by any chance leave the auto climate control on when the car is parked? If so, the car is turning on it's air conditioner to keep the empty car cool waiting your return. and AC do provide a river of water. If you don't want the water, just turn off climate control before you turn the car off.

I'm not sure I understand this. Yes, the car's climate control is set to "Auto".
But when parked, the climate control for the cabin stays Off unless I turn it "On" remotely. I can monitor the cabin temp via the Model S phone app and the cabin eventually warms up to the exterior temp. Am I missing something about your question?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, the car's climate control is set to "Auto".
But when parked, the climate control for the cabin stays Off unless I turn it "On" remotely. I can monitor the cabin temp via the Model S phone app and the cabin eventually warms up to the exterior temp. Am I missing something about your question?

I don't think that he understands that the operator doesn't have any control over the battery cooling.

 

[RegGuheert]

To bring this somewhat back on topic; decipher the equation at SW on the compass rose and win an expired Wendy's Baconator coupon or 20% of some forum member's net worth Whichever is smaller. I just can't stop chuckling at that SparkEV v Rav4EV dustup.

It looks like the differential formulation of the Maxwell-Faraday equation. But it's a bit hard to make out. Did you know you have a large puddle of water on your garage floor?

 

[sparky]

It looks like the differential formulation of the Maxwell-Faraday equation. But it's a bit hard to make out.

FTW! Yes, my favorite equation; (don't we all have one?)
I had a fields prof who pointed out that it was a unique and elegant formulation encompassing variation in time and space together. Supposedly Einstein & Feinman liked it for the same reason.
I just marvel that it's what makes the car go like crazy and with so few parts. I still marvel at N. Tesla's induction motor.

Did you know you have a large puddle of water on your garage floor?

I just checked. The puddle is gone! Evaporated by the sun I guess.